414 replies to this topic

[Caro99]

clover, i also thought about the you will have to be with me to get all these benefits part, but somehow i can't see it reflecting his character after thinking it twice. he has already done things for her with no benefit for him (joff's name day backing up her lie, saving her from riot (it wasn't his duty to specifically save her if things went wrong) and even risking talking to her, and the enough bit) so i just can't see him thinking of himself at the bedroom offering. he wanted to protect her from all the wrong in the world, not to save her only to have her at his mercy. i think he did offer her a boyfriend sort of thing, but if she had agreed to go with him only on a sworn shield/protector relationship, i don't think he would have refused.

[brashcandy]

He kinda blurted out the part about keeping her safe and killing anyone that comes near to her (sorry, call me out for taking the feminist movement back to the dark ages but this makes me swoon everytime!). So anyways, right, before he blurted this out, he tried to catch her interest with the going north, somewhere. Which makes me think that he hadn't really planned on telling her about the keeping safe part, it just came out in a moment of passion almost. Or he had been thinking it, and thought this would be thing that would convince her to come. It was a just a typical Sandor moment - harsh, but honest. And you know what, I like how he wants her to want him. He got upset about her closing her eyes because he took it as a sign of rejection. LF doesn't give a fuck that she's uncomfortable kissing him and sitting on his lap.

Edited by brashcandy, 19 February 2012 - 10:41 PM.

[Elba the Intoner]

The scene on the serpentine steps sticks out for me as a turning point.  I got the feeling that he went looking for her, and the line about all a man needs is wine or a woman, then referring to her body, just seems like he went looking for her to see what might happen (probably made bolder by the fact that he was drunk at that point).  I don't think it was love for him there yet, but that's where I see his interest really come into play.  Then even after he decides that she's just a "silly little girl", he still carries on this conversation with her that reminded me so much of a guy nervously trying to strike up a conversation with his crush - the whole - hey you like wine?  I like wine.  Are you heading back to your room?  Well, I'll walk you to your door, okay?

[clover]

Quote

i think he did offer her a boyfriend sort of thing, but if she had agreed to go with him only on a sworn shield/protector relationship, i don't think he would have refused.   

Quote by Caro99

And the funny thing is that we get to see her sister, Arya, and what it was like to actually be on the road with him but not Sansa. And really, I love Arya, but she is a pain in the ass. And he was decent and very patient with her. Ok, the swaddling her at night was not so great but hilarious! Sansa would have been docile and obedient and cake for him to travel with. I just wonder if he would have just blurted out "I will take you home," if that would have helped her to go with him. Dontos gets her to leave and he is older, drunker, and pervs it up sometimes, which is what Sandor did when he makes the offer to get her out of there too, but he says the one thing that Sandor didn't.

[brashcandy]

clover, on 19 February 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Quote by Caro99

And the funny thing is that we get to see her sister, Arya, and what it was like to actually be on the road with him but not Sansa. And really, I love Arya, but she is a pain in the ass. And he was decent and very patient with her. Ok, the swaddling her at night was not so great but hilarious! Sansa would have been docile and obedient and cake for him to travel with. I just wonder if he would have just blurted out "I will take you home," if that would have helped her to go with him. Dontos gets her to leave and he is older, drunker, and pervs it up sometimes, which is what Sandor did when he makes the offer to get her out of there too, but he says the one thing that Sandor didn't.

As much as I agree Arya is a pain in the ass, Sansa would have been an even bigger pain I just could not see their time together ending in anything but disaster unless he had managed to get her on a ship pronto and holed up somewhere in the Free cities. But travelling on the road with a highborn maiden who doesn't even enjoy riding on a horse, and having to make sure that her looks are concealed etc, would have been insane pressure for Sandor to handle. He may have thought he was up to the challenge, but as we've noted, the man was thinking with his heart, not his head.

[clover]

Quote

And you know what, I like how he wants her to want him. He got upset about her closing her eyes because he took it as a sign of rejection. LF doesn't give a fuck that she's uncomfortable kissing him and sitting on his lap.   

Quote by Brashcandy

I love this too. It is so apparent that her beauty and so many things about her personality attracts him. Very apparent that he wants her in the worst way, but he still is willing to have her only if she wants him too. And LF.....I still get the squeams when I read a scene with him and Sansa. Only Lysa thinks he is smooth.

[childofsummer]

clover, on 19 February 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Quote by Caro99

And the funny thing is that we get to see her sister, Arya, and what it was like to actually be on the road with him but not Sansa. And really, I love Arya, but she is a pain in the ass. And he was decent and very patient with her. Ok, the swaddling her at night was not so great but hilarious! Sansa would have been docile and obedient and cake for him to travel with. I just wonder if he would have just blurted out "I will take you home," if that would have helped her to go with him. Dontos gets her to leave and he is older, drunker, and pervs it up sometimes, which is what Sandor did when he makes the offer to get her out of there too, but he says the one thing that Sandor didn't.

Well, I can excuse his wrapping her in a horse blanket.  She had tried to kill him multiple times, in multiple ways, after all - the one right before he did the horse blanket thing being trying to smash in his head with a rock.  And all he did was take the rock away, tell her to cut it out, and safely neutralize her so he could get some sleep.  I loved the - what was it littlespider called it? Sandrya? - travelogue.  It reminded me of a big dog patiently swatting away a puppy that keeps jumping on the big dog's back and biting its ears.

I wonder if traveling with Sansa would have been easier or harder for Sandor.  Arya had no problems roughing it, sleeping on the ground and eating whole roast squirrel off a skewer.  I'm thinking Sansa would have required lots more supplies, at least.  Maybe I'm doing her a disservice, though.

In terms of going with him, yes, I think if he had phrased it differently, and if he had not been drunk, she might have considered taking him up on the offer, partly because she was convinced Ser Ilyn was about to come up the steps and chop off her head.  I honestly think she didn't recognize it as an offer at the time, though, and the knife to her throat didn't help explain things.

[clover]

Also, why do I have the feeling that anytime somebody even looked at her the wrong way, jealous mode would have kicked in and they would have both been in trouble. it is better for Sansa that she didn;t go. Who knows what would have happened with all the outlaws and stuff.

Yeah, Sansa would have had a hard time adjusting. But she could be high maintenance and then she surprises me sometimes.

Edited by clover, 19 February 2012 - 11:19 PM.

[clover]

Also, I was reading the part with Asha and Botley. So the guy is pretty much nuts for her since childhood, doesn't see her for years, loves her, wants her, wants to marry her, and pretty much says everything in a more articulate manner than Sandor does with Sansa.

And you know what? I feel absolutely nothing! It doesn't have the snazziness or sparkle that the Bird and Hound do. Why is this? I don't know.

[brashcandy]

childofsummer, on 19 February 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

I wonder if traveling with Sansa would have been easier or harder for Sandor.  Arya had no problems roughing it, sleeping on the ground and eating whole roast squirrel off a skewer.  I'm thinking Sansa would have required lots more supplies, at least.  Maybe I'm doing her a disservice, though.

By the time Sandor kidnaps Arya she's become pretty road-hardened already by her journey with Yoren, the BWB etc, plus she was always a natural tomboy. But even Arya found it hard in those early days, having to hide to pee etc. Imagine what that would have been like for Sansa, and I can't see Sandor being able to let her go very far from his sight even for privacy's sake. Going to an inn in Westeros by that time had also become the equivalent of fighting in a battle - prepare to kill or be killed. And the lookout for a pretty maiden and big hulking man would have intensified in those locations. And of course, all of this is problematic without even considering the elephant in the room: their attraction to one another.

Edited by brashcandy, 19 February 2012 - 11:42 PM.

[Thrice the Hound]

Hi guys great thread there is obviously so much I didn't pick up on all crammed into one spot! I wondered for a while if I was the only one that saw something because some of my friends say they didn't! Im not crazy!

[childofsummer]

Thrice the Hound, on 19 February 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

Hi guys great thread there is obviously so much I didn't pick up on all crammed into one spot! I wondered for a while if I was the only one that saw something because some of my friends say they didn't! Im not crazy!

Well, if you are, you've got a lot of company.    Welcome to the thread!

[brashcandy]

Thrice the Hound, on 19 February 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

Hi guys great thread there is obviously so much I didn't pick up on all crammed into one spot! I wondered for a while if I was the only one that saw something because some of my friends say they didn't! Im not crazy!

hello! You picked a great username, and rest assured it's your friends that are crazy

[Thrice the Hound]

brashcandy, on 19 February 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Yeah, I suppose that's the first time he noticed she was developing a more mature body. He tells her she's taller and the teats... (classy Sandor). But still, he dismisses her as just a silly little bird and I've never thought he was perving after her directly in that scene. Maybe I'm wrong?

I thought that he was just being a rude prat? I don't think he has any idea how to be well charming. I bet he appraises horses the same way. Hey nice rump, strong chest big gait or whatever. He seemed to like to make her uncomfortable though so I cant decide if he just lacks tact or if he meant to embarass her...

Quote

This could honestly be it.  I'm thinking of this question because Rapsie just reviewed their last scene together before the Blackwater battle, the one where Sandor tells her he's tired of her peeping at him, and in that scene we get no real overt hints of his interest, but as I noted in the other thread there seems to be something brewing beneath the surface. It's the first time we they almost appear as equals, with Sansa not afraid to speak back to him and challenge his beliefs. Perhaps between the beating at court and the riot where Sansa is almost pulled from the horse, something clicked for him.

lol @ the peeping outburst. I always assumed he did that because he was caught of guard and couldn't handle the fact she had the guts to look him straight in the face finally. I think he may of clicked earlier on because he did have that outburst about her being 'happy to see him at the riot'. It sounded a little like jelousy and dissapointment when he said that, to me anyway.

Edited by Thrice the Hound, 20 February 2012 - 12:43 AM.

[childofsummer]

Thrice the Hound, on 20 February 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

I thought that he was just being a rude prat? I don't think he has any idea how to be well charming. I bet he appraises horses the same way. Hey nice rump, strong chest big gait or whatever. He seemed to like to make her uncomfortable though so I cant decide if he just lacks tact or if he meant to embarass her...

lol @ the peeping outburst. I always assumed he did that because he was caught of guard and couldn't handle the fact she grew a spine and looked him straight in the face. I think he may of clicked earlier on because he did have that outburst about her being 'happy to see him at the riot'. It sounded a little like jelousy and dissapointment when he said that, to me anyway.

We need a Hound wooing instruction manual!
Step one: Approach the lady.  Ideally, do not grab her in the dark and scare the crap out of her.
Step two: Greet her.  Hint: "nice teats" doesn't cut it.
Step three: Find a topic that interests her.  This would not be the time to bring up her father's murder.  Also see Step two.
Step four: Tell her you like her.  Preferably without involving edged weapons.
Step five: Wait for a response.  Try not to tell her you're sick of her "peeping."
Step six (may occur before step three): See if there's something you can do for her.  Saving her from a mob would be a great start!  Saving her from her abusive betrothed might be even better.  Getting her out of the clutches of the family that murdered hers would be gold!  (See #4 prohibition on using edged weapons to convince her to leave with you.)
Repeat.
After you have mastered steps 1-6, ask the lady nicely (no weapons, mind!), and you may be able to move on to steps 7-10.

[Thrice the Hound]

childofsummer, on 20 February 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

We need a Hound wooing instruction manual!
Step zero - Make sure you smell of anything but wine/vomit and/or sweat of man or horse
Step one: Approach the lady.  Ideally, do not grab her in the dark and scare the crap out of her.
Step two: Greet her.  Hint: "nice teats" doesn't cut it.
Step three: Find a topic that interests her.  This would not be the time to bring up her father's murder.  Also see Step two.
Step four: Tell her you like her.  Preferably without involving edged weapons.
Step five: Wait for a response.  Try not to tell her you're sick of her "peeping."
Step six (may occur before step three): See if there's something you can do for her.  Saving her from a mob would be a great start!  Saving her from her abusive betrothed might be even better.  Getting her out of the clutches of the family that murdered hers would be gold!  (See #4 prohibition on using edged weapons to convince her to leave with you.)
Repeat.
After you have mastered steps 1-6, ask the lady nicely (no weapons, mind!), and you may be able to move on to steps 7-10.

LOL. Maybe we could illuminate it for those that struggle with reading? The book would go valaryan steel in the Westerosi book charts in a week.

[childofsummer]

Thrice the Hound, on 20 February 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

LOL. Maybe we could illuminate it for those that struggle with reading? The book would go valaryan steel in the Westerosi book charts in a week.

Commission Mance Rayder to make it into an educational ballad to reach the non-reading portion of the audience, and women across Westeros would swoon!

Edited by childofsummer, 20 February 2012 - 01:06 AM.

[Thrice the Hound]

Hey about the "when did the Hound announce his intention to be Sansa's boyfriend" subject that you guys are talking about....

I know this is going to sound stupid but we had the movie Clueless on TV last night (honest it was just playing in the back ground whilst I was lurking in the forum   don't judge me   ) and this Sandor situation kind of reminds me of the scene when that leading air head is starting to figure out she has a crush onthat cute guy that lives in her house. It takes her all day going over and over why she is upset that he is interested in someone else. Until it finally dawns on her that she is in love with him... then she becomes very awkward around him.

I don't know if he really knew what he was doing in that room but he got kind of awkward with Arya when he was talking about her. Maybe it was his version of Clueless????

I probably just lost all credibility saying that

[bgona]

littlespider, on 19 February 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Bad. Ass. That's an excellent catch.

One of the Kettleblack bros. is also described as having a hooked nose, just to further substantiate the parallel. And Sansa compares the Hound to the Kettleblacks (and finds them wanting).

And the difference that they made that the Kettleblack was a younger Hound.

The truth he looked as Sandor, but he hadn´t prooved his skill at fight.

[Rapsie]

Thrice the Hound, on 19 February 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

Hi guys great thread there is obviously so much I didn't pick up on all crammed into one spot! I wondered for a while if I was the only one that saw something because some of my friends say they didn't! Im not crazy!

Welcome and great point. Are we all crazy? Generally a lot of other posters are very dismissive of a possible Sandor / Sansa storyline, yet almost everyone on this thread has read something in the text that made them think there was something going on.

Are we just making this up in our heads, or is the fact that Sansa is not particularly liked, led to a number of other readers skim reading her chapters and not taking in what is happening in them. Afterall most Sandor conversations happen in her chapters and even after they are separated they mention each other in each chapter they are in.