69 replies to this topic

[willdabeast94]

There is a good chance that Long Claw is  LightBringer. The prophecy states that " a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer." When John Snow started the fire in Lord Commander's tower, Mormont rediscovered it. Snow essentially "drew" the sword back into the world from the fire he started. Long Claw is also Valarian steel, which is repeatedly called dragon steel. Sam Tarly read that Valarian steel has the same effect on the Others as flames, so it is in essence burning. If you take the prophecy figuratively than Long Claw does fulfill the requirements of Light Bringer, meaning that John Snow could very well be Azor Ahai reborn.

[redriver]

Plus his dream of being armoured in ice and wielding a red hot sword.

Might have to kill Ghost though.

[kissdbyfire]

redriver, on 15 February 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

Plus his dream of being armoured in ice and wielding a red hot sword.

Might have to kill Ghost though.

Wouldn't that be a type of suicide? Jon doesn't just 'love' Ghost; Ghost is him, and he is Ghost...

[All Men Must Rhyme]

I kind of have a bad feeling that Mel will kill Ghost to bring Jon back to life. I hope not, but it's something George would do

[kissdbyfire]

No, no, no, noooooooo! :-(
Hadn't thought about that. I didn't think I could come to dislike Mel even more than I already do, but this would certainly make me!
I actually don't think he will die and be resurrected, I think he'll survive his wounds. (fingers crossed)

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

Didn't Mance survive wounds that the Watch couldn't heal due to Wildling aid. Mayhaps Val has some knowledge that could save Jon? That's what I'm hoping for.

[Winter's Lady]

Jon or Mel killing Ghost???  *rocking herself in a fetal position*

No no no.

The Nights Watch is Lightbringer. It is known. (seriously though, good catch on the fire thingy, but if it actually is a sword, it will be Dawn)

[Val the Wildling Princess]

willdabeast94, on 14 February 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

There is a good chance that Long Claw is  LightBringer. The prophecy states that " a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer." When John Snow started the fire in Lord Commander's tower, Mormont rediscovered it. Snow essentially "drew" the sword back into the world from the fire he started. Long Claw is also Valarian steel, which is repeatedly called dragon steel. Sam Tarly read that Valarian steel has the same effect on the Others as flames, so it is in essence burning. If you take the prophecy figuratively than Long Claw does fulfill the requirements of Light Bringer, meaning that John Snow could very well be Azor Ahai reborn.

I agree with the first part about the sword being taken from the flames, Longclaw could fit there. But I'm skeptical about the dragon steel part, we don't know for sure that dragons steel=valyrian steel, that's just a supposition Jon and Sam make. The main problem with dragon steel being valyrian steel for me is that, at the time the Long Night happened, there was not Valyrian steel at all, mainly cause there was not Valyria either. That or, Valyrians just invented something that was already invented and then Valyrian steel should change its name to Westerosi steel As far as we know, the only certain weakness of Others is dragonglass/obsidian. And what about the fire? Do we have evidence that fire works against them? Fire kills wights, yeah, but the WW too?

[RandomWanderer]

I swear to the old gods I hope that GRRM doesn't make the story into some silly Arthurian good vs evil thing with this whole AA and lightbringer bs. I think we can expect and hope for better then that from GRRM.

I personally hope NO one is AA and there isn't some grand cosmic earth shattering " good vs evil" battle in the end.. it just wouldn't fit into the ASOIAF story.

[Ser Ilyn's Tongue]

Also didn't part of the hilt get burned away and have to remade? So the sword was technically burning (albeit briefly).

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Val the Wildling Princess, on 15 February 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

I agree with the first part about the sword being taken from the flames, Longclaw could fit there. But I'm skeptical about the dragon steel part, we don't know for sure that dragons steel=valyrian steel, that's just a supposition Jon and Sam make. The main problem with dragon steel being valyrian steel for me is that, at the time the Long Night happened, there was not Valyrian steel at all, mainly cause there was not Valyria either. That or, Valyrians just invented something that was already invented and then Valyrian steel should change its name to Westerosi steel As far as we know, the only certain weakness of Others is dragonglass/obsidian. And what about the fire? Do we have evidence that fire works against them? Fire kills wights, yeah, but the WW too?

Canadian Bacon is called Ham in the States.

[lewis92]

i can see Ghost being killed to bring Jon back
i can then see Jon getting a dragon most likely viserion!
think it kind of makes sense if Jon is eventually going to be one of dragon riders, i always kind of wondered what ghost would do while Jons flying about on a dragon all day...

[Darth Vader's Bastard]

Interesting theory!

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Howland Reed, on 15 February 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Canadian Bacon is called Ham in the States.

I'm afraid we don't have canadian bacon in Spain

My point is, if there was something (dragon steel) that was the same than valyrian steel in Westeros 8000 years ago when there was not Valyria at all (Someone correct me but I think the rise of Valyria was like 4000-5000 years ago?) why the same material is now called valyrian steel if that material already existed in Westeros for thousands of years before? What happened to the dragon steel after the Long Night? Did they think it wouldn't be useful anymore? That seems odd.
Weirdest explanation I can find is that someone carried Valyrian steel from the future with a Delorean

Edited by Val the Wildling Princess, 15 February 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[sarah.jenice]

I like the link you make to Jon getting Long Claw after saving Mormont and starting a fire, but after how much we've heard about Lightbringer and the huge deal Mel has made about it, I really hope it is something more than Long Claw (in its current state at least).

I don't mind Jon being AA, but if Lightbringer isn't going to be something figurative (Night's Watch, the dragons, etc.), I hope that it comes into the story in a really interesting and exciting way similar to the first forging of Lightbringer.

The story of the original forging of Lightbringer, called the Red Sword of Heroes, that Salladhor Saan tells Davos has several complex steps:

1. First attempt at forging took 30 days and 30 nights. Tempered in water and burst

2. Second attempt took 50 days and 50 nights. Plunged into the heart of a lion and the steel "shattered and split"

3. Third attempt took 100 days and 100 nights. Smoking blade plunged into the heart of Azor Ahai's beloved wife Nisa Nisa and "Her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel." I think this step will have to be performed for it to be Lightbringer. It isn't just the steel of the sword that gave it power, but Nisa Nisa's pure soul. That makes it seem like a great sacrifice of love will be required, and I'd even have to say the person sacrificed would need to have similar characteristics as Nisa Nisa so they blade will work properly. That's what gives the sword its power.

4. Another thing (maybe very important) that I just noticed. When it describes how AA forged the sword, it says he "labored sleepless in the temple, forging a blade in the sacred fires. Heat and hammer and fold." That sounds very much like what we know of how Valyrian steel is forged (I think with spells, too) so it does seem possible that the original Lightbringer was a Valyrian steel blade. This makes me believe even more that the method of producing Valyrian steel most likely existed long before Valyria and whoever settled there must have known that secret and the steel became known as Valyrian steel over the ages. I could believe it was possible that pre-Valyria, either the steel was known as dragon steel because of it shared similar properties to dragon fire or the primitive Night's Watchmen who wrote the book Sam is reading just named it that because it helped them kill the Others like fire does.

I don't think that every one of these steps will literally need to be repeated to create the new Lightbringer, but I do think we were told that detailed story for a reason. I wish we knew where AA was from. Salladhor says "it was a time a time when darkness lay heavy on the world" and we know Salla is from Essos, as is Melisandre and they both know the tale. Perhaps this is proof that the Others will be able to cross the narrow sea if they are not stopped in Westeros.

I still hope Lightbringer is more than any Valyrian steel sword in the kingdoms.

Edited by sarah.jenice, 15 February 2012 - 11:20 AM.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Howland Reed, on 15 February 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Canadian Bacon is called Ham in the States.

I think you've got this backwards. Canadian bacon is a term used in the United States to describe a specific cut of ham.

[Falrinn]

RandomWanderer, on 15 February 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

I swear to the old gods I hope that GRRM doesn't make the story into some silly Arthurian good vs evil thing with this whole AA and lightbringer bs. I think we can expect and hope for better then that from GRRM.

I personally hope NO one is AA and there isn't some grand cosmic earth shattering " good vs evil" battle in the end.. it just wouldn't fit into the ASOIAF story.

How about this theory, there is an Azor Ahai...but he isn't the hero of the series.


What if the Others are revealed to be far more complex and dynamic then they appear to be?  It's not impossible that the only reason they appear to be plainly evil is because they think humanity is plainly evil due to 8,000 years of whitewashing any responsibility they had in starting the War for the Dawn.  Likewise the First Men have also engaged in similar whitewashing of any responsibility they had in starting the War, and the truth is far more complex then either side realizes.

Because of this, Azor Ahai may stand in the way of a peace with the Others being established.  Once it becomes clear to enough people that the Others are not what they appear to be, they might be forced to kill Azor Ahai in order to bring about the end of the war.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Falrinn, on 15 February 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

How about this theory, there is an Azor Ahai...but he isn't the hero of the series.


What if the Others are revealed to be far more complex and dynamic then they appear to be?  It's not impossible that the only reason they appear to be plainly evil is because they think humanity is plainly evil due to 8,000 years of whitewashing any responsibility they had in starting the War for the Dawn.  Likewise the First Men have also engaged in similar whitewashing of any responsibility they had in starting the War, and the truth is far more complex then either side realizes.

Because of this, Azor Ahai may stand in the way of a peace with the Others being established.  Once it becomes clear to enough people that the Others are not what they appear to be, they might be forced to kill Azor Ahai in order to bring about the end of the war.

I agree, except for the killing of AA especially if it's Jon I don't think the role of the Others in this series is just hanging around being evil, no, they have remained so mysterious for five books, there has to be something else.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Val the Wildling Princess, on 15 February 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

I'm afraid we don't have canadian bacon in Spain

My point is, if there was something (dragon steel) that was the same than valyrian steel in Westeros 8000 years ago when there was not Valyria at all (Someone correct me but I think the rise of Valyria was like 4000-5000 years ago?) why the same material is now called valyrian steel if that material already existed in Westeros for thousands of years before? What happened to the dragon steel after the Long Night? Did they think it wouldn't be useful anymore? That seems odd.
Weirdest explanation I can find is that someone carried Valyrian steel from the future with a Delorean

That's OK.  Apparently they don't have Canadian Bacon in Canada either.  ...wait a minute... if you're from Spain how are you posting in English and not Basque?

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

OnionAhaiReborn, on 15 February 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

I think you've got this backwards. Canadian bacon is a term used in the United States to describe a specific cut of ham.

oh....yeah.... Then why do they call it Canadian?