69 replies to this topic

[SerFelixCulpa]

Howland Reed, on 15 February 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

oh....yeah.... Then why do they call it Canadian?

It has national health insurance.

[The Sunset King]

If there is going to be a definitive "Lightbringer" of some kind in the books, I suspect it will be more complex than Longclaw or some other Valyrian Steel sword being imbued with a bit more magic.  It might be (or already has been if the dragon theory is true) created through a laborious and sacrificial process like the original one was.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

The Sunset King, on 15 February 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

If there is going to be a definitive "Lightbringer" of some kind in the books, I suspect it will be more complex than Longclaw or some other Valyrian Steel sword being imbued with a bit more magic.  It might be (or already has been if the dragon theory is true) created through a laborious and sacrificial process like the original one was.

What if the night's watch is lightbringer, the sword in the darkness, and Jn Snow is Nis Nisa and he's DEAD.

[Sound_of_winter]

Wouldn't he have to stab Arya to weild it?   don't like.

[Know Face Man]

Long Claw is only 500 years old, pretty much right around the time the Targaryens first landed on Dragonstone. So i don't think it is old enough to be Lightbringer.

The only sword that happens to be thousands of years old is Dawn.

[The Sunset King]

Howland Reed, on 15 February 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

What if the night's watch is lightbringer, the sword in the darkness, and Jn Snow is Nis Nisa and he's DEAD.

That would be interesting, although it is hard to tell yet how the Night's Watch would benefit from Snow being a Nissa Nissa sacrifice.  The Night's Watch would need to be reunited and reconciled with the Wildlings.  Perhaps Melisandre would make Jon's death somehow temper the Night's Watch (if it is the Lightbringer in this case) in some kind of fashion.

Edited by The Sunset King, 15 February 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[FourthofHerName]

Hi everyone.  I've been lurking here for a while and finally got in on a thread while it's still open for replies.  My own theory has been that the Night's Watch is Lightbringer.  There's been a lot of talk here and on other forums about prophesies not being taken too literally.  For me, the Night's Watch oath clinches it:  I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn ... It's either coincidence or red herring.  Pulling the sword from the fire means bringing the Night's Watch back together after the chaos that will break loose after Jon's stabbing.  Either Jon will survive the attack and manage to unite the wildlings and black brothers against the true enemy, or someone else will fill that role.  My favorite crackpot theory on who that could be = Jaime!

If Lightbringer is literally an ancient sword, what happened to it?  Why did it stop being fiery?  For that matter, what happened to the original AA?  Also, if the original Lightbringer is still around waiting to be pulled out of fire and regain its magical properties, I'm not sure that the story of its forging is relevant - it doesn't need to be reforged, so I'm not certain that Jon will have to kill Ghost or Arya or Dany or any of the other popular guesses.  Just like Lightbringer itself, the story of the forging could be a metaphor.  I just haven't put together how that metaphor would fit with events at the Wall.

[ghost the direwolf]

Sound_of_winter, on 15 February 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

Wouldn't he have to stab Arya to weild it?   don't like.

Better Mel than Arya or Ghost she is full of fire after all. If she need an AA that much she should be the 1st to sacrifice herself.

[Sound_of_winter]

Doesn't it have to be someone he loves though?

[Winter's Lady]

FourthofHerName, on 15 February 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

Hi everyone.  I've been lurking here for a while and finally got in on a thread while it's still open for replies.  My own theory has been that the Night's Watch is Lightbringer.  There's been a lot of talk here and on other forums about prophesies not being taken too literally.  For me, the Night's Watch oath clinches it:  I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn ... It's either coincidence or red herring.  Pulling the sword from the fire means bringing the Night's Watch back together after the chaos that will break loose after Jon's stabbing.  Either Jon will survive the attack and manage to unite the wildlings and black brothers against the true enemy, or someone else will fill that role.  My favorite crackpot theory on who that could be = Jaime!

If Lightbringer is literally an ancient sword, what happened to it?  Why did it stop being fiery?  For that matter, what happened to the original AA?  Also, if the original Lightbringer is still around waiting to be pulled out of fire and regain its magical properties, I'm not sure that the story of its forging is relevant - it doesn't need to be reforged, so I'm not certain that Jon will have to kill Ghost or Arya or Dany or any of the other popular guesses.  Just like Lightbringer itself, the story of the forging could be a metaphor.  I just haven't put together how that metaphor would fit with events at the Wall.

Welcome to the forum!
I also believe that NW= Lightbringer! Maybe you would like to check out this thread, if you haven't already seen it. It deals with this idea and is an interesting read.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

FourthofHerName, on 15 February 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

Hi everyone.  I've been lurking here for a while and finally got in on a thread while it's still open for replies.  My own theory has been that the Night's Watch is Lightbringer.  There's been a lot of talk here and on other forums about prophesies not being taken too literally.  For me, the Night's Watch oath clinches it:  I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn ... It's either coincidence or red herring.  Pulling the sword from the fire means bringing the Night's Watch back together after the chaos that will break loose after Jon's stabbing.  Either Jon will survive the attack and manage to unite the wildlings and black brothers against the true enemy, or someone else will fill that role.  My favorite crackpot theory on who that could be = Jaime!

If Lightbringer is literally an ancient sword, what happened to it?  Why did it stop being fiery?  For that matter, what happened to the original AA?  Also, if the original Lightbringer is still around waiting to be pulled out of fire and regain its magical properties, I'm not sure that the story of its forging is relevant - it doesn't need to be reforged, so I'm not certain that Jon will have to kill Ghost or Arya or Dany or any of the other popular guesses.  Just like Lightbringer itself, the story of the forging could be a metaphor.  I just haven't put together how that metaphor would fit with events at the Wall.

Welcome on board, I'm also with the theory of Lightbringer not being an actual sword, but the NW for example.

[Know Face Man]

If your using the Vows of the Nights Watch as proof, then think about this.

When Sam uses the Black Gate at the Nightfort he does onto use the same Vow as he does when he first takes his Vow to become a Nights Watchman.

Sam say " I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers. I am the shield that guards the realms of men.

Sam does not say Sword in the darkness, or take no wife, hold no lands, no crowns and win no glory.

I believe that the Vow said at the Nightfort is the original Vow of the Nights Watch and all the other stuff about no wife and lands was put in after.

So if you believe like I do then the Nights Watch could not be Lightbringer, mainly because the whole Sword in the dark thing was not in the original Vow

Some people will say Sam only had to say apart of his Vow to get through the Black Gate but I do not believe this to be true.

Edited by Know Face Man, 15 February 2012 - 02:09 PM.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

The Sunset King, on 15 February 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

That would be interesting, although it is hard to tell yet how the Night's Watch would benefit from Snow being a Nissa Nissa sacrifice.  The Night's Watch would need to be reunited and reconciled with the Wildlings.  Perhaps Melisandre would make Jon's death somehow temper the Night's Watch (if it is the Lightbringer in this case) in some kind of fashion.

No its his death the turns the other brothers against the conspirators and toward the wildlings. he'll be the second lord commander killed by his own, while the wildlings we rallying to ride off and defend the north.

[FourthofHerName]

Interesting point, Sellsword.  I'll have to go back and re-read that chapter when Sam is at the Nightfort - that's an interesting detail that I didn't catch.  I'm on my first re-read of the books and I'm noticing a lot more, but there are still so many details that don't seem important until you see what happens later.

I could be way, way off on my timeline, but I seem to remember Jon saying something about Starks on the Wall for 8,000 years.  Was that also when AA was around?  Who founded the Night's Watch?    I need to keep notebooks or something to have this information handy...

[SerFelixCulpa]

FourthofHerName, on 15 February 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Interesting point, Sellsword.  I'll have to go back and re-read that chapter when Sam is at the Nightfort - that's an interesting detail that I didn't catch.  I'm on my first re-read of the books and I'm noticing a lot more, but there are still so many details that don't seem important until you see what happens later.

I could be way, way off on my timeline, but I seem to remember Jon saying something about Starks on the Wall for 8,000 years.  Was that also when AA was around?  Who founded the Night's Watch? I need to keep notebooks or something to have this information handy...

We should remember that even in the books, figures thrown around like "8000 years" are apt to be mistaken.  It is stated up front that the written histories of Westeros that people have available to them are no older than the arrivals of the Andals, whose language supplanted that of the First Men.  Essentially, anything older than that is later writing of oral or other traditions which themselves may not have been accurate.  Nor are Westerosi post-Andal texts apt to be "error free."  Sam notes in researching the history of the Night's Watch that even though they purport to be making Jon 998th LC of the NW, their records indicate a different (smaller I think it was) number of Lords Commander.  We are talking about a "medieval" setting: not exactly the best or most accurate record keepers, particularly when we stretch over thousands of years without printing presses.

Point being: even in-universe, recitations of long-past events (including how long it has been since the event) are unreliable. Prophecies may be true, but they may have also come down even to the characters in the books as garbled and half-true versions of what was originally intended.

[willdabeast94]

What if Jon actual does die and then Mel revives him uses the fire kiss thing. He would essentially be reborn and the fire kiss will provide the prophecy's smoke, and the salt will come from tears or something. When Dondarrion was revived using the fire kiss, his sword became a fire sword. what if the same thing happens to Long Claw when Jon is revived. then it would definitely be lightbringer

[Arya Targaryen]

Not a bad theory but I don't think Jon will be revived in a "fiery" way. At least I hope so.

[Winter's Lady]

willdabeast94, on 16 February 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

What if Jon actual does die and then Mel revives him uses the fire kiss thing. He would essentially be reborn and the fire kiss will provide the prophecy's smoke, and the salt will come from tears or something. When Dondarrion was revived using the fire kiss, his sword became a fire sword. what if the same thing happens to Long Claw when Jon is revived. then it would definitely be lightbringer

I think that fiery sword was just some of Thoros' fire sorcery wildfire voodoo. He needed a new one everytime he set his sword on fire.
Or am I blanking on some part in the book?

[All Men Must Rhyme]

Lady of Oldcastle, on 16 February 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

I think that fiery sword was just some of Thoros' fire sorcery wildfire voodoo. He needed a new one everytime he set his sword on fire.
Or am I blanking on some part in the book?

I don't know, it seemed different with Dondarrion. He didn't seem to coat it in anything then light it, he just passed his hand along the blade and it caught alight. I don't know if that was some sort of pyromancer trick or whether it was meant to be believed that he had developed powers of some sort,but it didn't seem the same to me. The fact that Thoros was able to bring him repeatedly back to life suggests there may have been something else there. The only reason Dondarrion died at all was because he passed this second (or seventh) life onto Cat against Thoros' advice.

[ManyFacedOne]

It wasn't wildfire but it was some type of magic. The difference I see with the real LB is that the sword wouldn't ever be affected by the fire in a negative way.