69 replies to this topic

[alienarea]

I don't care for the prophecy. If Jon survives, he should take Long Claw and kill Melisandre. Should Long Claw transform into Lightbringer then, fine, otherwise nothing's lost. It's worth a try.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

alienarea, on 16 February 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

I don't care for the prophecy. If Jon survives, he should take Long Claw and kill Melisandre. Should Long Claw transform into Lightbringer then, fine, otherwise nothing's lost. It's worth a try.

[SerFelixCulpa]

alienarea, on 16 February 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

[H]e should take Long Claw and kill Melisandre.

Any particular reason for this other than that you don't like Mel?

[Val the Wildling Princess]

SerFelixCulpa, on 16 February 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Any particular reason for this other than that you don't like Mel?

I don't know alienarea but that little thing of burning people alive does it for me, plus, she totally ruins Stannis for me.

[All Men Must Rhyme]

SerFelixCulpa, on 16 February 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Any particular reason for this other than that you don't like Mel?

Val the Wildling Princess, on 16 February 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

I don't know alienarea but that little thing of burning people alive does it for me, plus, she totally ruins Stannis for me.

I think it's the whole idea of tempering the steel as well. Mel supposedly embodies fire, add valyrian steel to what would supposedly be the hottest thing in the vicinity of the wall, and that's your best bet of lightbringer being an actual sword.

[Elaena Targaryen]

Know Face Man, on 15 February 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Long Claw is only 500 years old, pretty much right around the time the Targaryens first landed on Dragonstone. So i don't think it is old enough to be Lightbringer.

The only sword that happens to be thousands of years old is Dawn.

Yes but is that how old Long Claw is or is it how long it's been the ancesteral blade of House Mormont? I do think if Lightbringer is a literal sword it will be Dawn however.

[SerFelixCulpa]

Elaena Targaryen, on 16 February 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Yes but is that how old Long Claw is or is it how long it's been the ancesteral blade of House Mormont? I do think if Lightbringer is a literal sword it will be Dawn however.

I keep seeing this fallacy pop up: just because another sword may have been 'Lightbringer' in the past does not mean it has to be so again or that Lightbringer even exists at any given moment.  'Lightbringer' might well be brought into existence anew or in some other way than happened previously...in other words Lightbringer may not exist at the moment and need not necessarily exist until the conditions for its existence are satisfied.  Hell, it could be Needle for all we really know.

What is the love for Dawn as Lightbringer?  Does anyone have an argument here based on anything other than its name/alleged age?  How did the Daynes get it?

Edited by SerFelixCulpa, 16 February 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[Elaena Targaryen]

SerFelixCulpa, on 16 February 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

I keep seeing this fallacy pop up: just because another sword may have been 'Lightbringer' in the past does not mean it has to be so again or that Lightbringer even exists at any given moment.  'Lightbringer' might well be brought into existence anew or in some other way than happened previously...in other words Lightbringer may not exist at the moment and need not necessarily exist until the conditions for its existence are satisfied.  Hell, it could be Needle for all we really know.

What is the love for Dawn as Lightbringer?  Does anyone have an argument here based on anything other than its name/alleged age?  How did the Daynes get it?

Relax love I'm probably wrong because I usually am. No big deal, who would believe me anyway?

[Winter's Lady]

SerFelixCulpa, on 16 February 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

What is the love for Dawn as Lightbringer?  Does anyone have an argument here based on anything other than its name/alleged age?  How did the Daynes get it?

Hmm I don't support this theory but let me have a try:

• the name - Dawn is the time that brings the light
  
• the alleged age fits
  
• it was made out of a comet I think- a bleeding star,so to speak, and "draw from the fire a flaming sword" could mean forging a sword out of the hot comet

That's all I got.

Edited by Lady of Oldcastle, 16 February 2012 - 05:04 PM.

[SerFelixCulpa]

Elaena Targaryen, on 16 February 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Relax love I'm probably wrong because I usually am. No big deal, who would believe me anyway?

No worries, I just like to look at things analytically.  And you may well be right, who knows?

Lady of Oldcastle, on 16 February 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Hmm I don't support this theory but let me have a try:

• the name - Dawn is the time that brings the light
  
• the alleged age fits
  
• it was made out of a comet I think- a bleeding star,so to speak, and "draw from the fire a flaming sword" could mean forging a sword out of the hot comet

That's all I got.

I was just wondering if there were any other hints or reasons for this anyone had advanced.  It's an interesting theory, but I just don't buy it.  Also, what is the age of Dawn precisely?  Surely not as far back as the Long Night, etc?

[Know Face Man]

Not sure how the Daynes got the sword but it is said that House Dayne is of the First Men so it fits that way aswell.

I think Dawn is said to be a couple of thousand of years old, and before that things get a little fuzzy

So yes Dawn is old enough to be Lightbringer

Edited by Know Face Man, 16 February 2012 - 05:25 PM.

[Elaena Targaryen]

SerFelixCulpa, on 16 February 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

No worries, I just like to look at things analytically.  And you may well be right, who knows?


I was just wondering if there were any other hints or reasons for this anyone had advanced.  It's an interesting theory, but I just don't buy it.  Also, what is the age of Dawn precisely?  Surely not as far back as the Long Night, etc?

Ok I found the thread that persuaded me http://asoiaf.wester...3/page__st__180
They discuss a lot of aspects, and other unrelated things, for a few pages starting on pg 10 and Ran posts a few times but his post #227 pg 12 he said Martin said Dawn is accounted for a couple thousand years but the origin is unclear, among other things that connect it also

I don't like to be set in stone, someone else may persuade me tonight, but I like it for now.

[alienarea]

The only sword that desperately needs reforging is Ice. It's the Stark sword, and its name associates it to winter. The Starks motto is "Winter is coming". They are "somehow" connected to the Night King, and warging and dire wolfes are rather North of the wall features.

So: Jon Snow will be revived as the other version of Azor Azhai: Reforging Ice by slaying Melisandre (as jcooper noted she'll provide fire), being clad in ice armor. And what will he do with Ice? Any decent fantasy story needs a dragonslayer.

The final(?) book was originally supposed to be titled "A Time for Wolves". If I recall LOTR correctly there is a line by Gandalf connecting the end of mankind to a time for wolves (3rd movie before the final battle, don't know about the books).

[redriver]

Does it say anywhere that Lightbringer has to be the original sword?

No is the answer to that one.Just plunge your average common or garden Valyrian steel sword into a loved one...

...and hey presto.

[Winter's Lady]

redriver, on 17 February 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

Does it say anywhere that Lightbringer has to be the original sword?

No is the answer to that one.Just plunge your average common or garden Valyrian steel sword into a loved one...

...and hey presto.

You just inspired me!

Welcome to Wyman Manderly's cannibal cooking club.
Today you learn how to make your very own Lightbringer!

It's so easy, even Moon Boy can do it!

Step 1: Take a Valyrian Steel blade, preferably a very valuable one with a mysterious history.

Step 2: Select your Nissa Nissa. But careful! Only the selection of the highest possible quality available will grant success!

Step 3: Plunge the blade into your Nissa Nissa of choice, wiggle it around until it is good and thoroughly soaked, pull it out, clean it and voila!

And with your leftover Nissa Nissa you can easily try a light version of our top chef's very special pie!

ENJOY


Edit: And tomorrow you learn how to create your own dragon army! All you need is a witch, a torch and petrified eggs! Don't miss it.

Edited by Lady of Oldcastle, 17 February 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[Apple Martini]

I still think Lightbringer is the Night's Watch.

[SerFelixCulpa]

Wanna see Lightbringer?

http://www.wickedlas...ries-96-37.html

[Apple Martini]

Know Face Man, on 15 February 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

If your using the Vows of the Nights Watch as proof, then think about this.

When Sam uses the Black Gate at the Nightfort he does onto use the same Vow as he does when he first takes his Vow to become a Nights Watchman.

Sam say " I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers. I am the shield that guards the realms of men.

Sam does not say Sword in the darkness, or take no wife, hold no lands, no crowns and win no glory.

I believe that the Vow said at the Nightfort is the original Vow of the Nights Watch and all the other stuff about no wife and lands was put in after.

So if you believe like I do then the Nights Watch could not be Lightbringer, mainly because the whole Sword in the dark thing was not in the original Vow

Some people will say Sam only had to say apart of his Vow to get through the Black Gate but I do not believe this to be true.

You need to go back and reread that, because Sam DOES SAY the sword in the darkness part. I don't have the book on me now, but he might say the sword bit first, get a response from the gate, and then go into the rest. However it's said, the sword part is in there. Someone with Storm of Swords handy can verify it if they want. In fact, it's because Sam does mention the sword bit that a lot of us think it lends credence to the Night's Watch theory. It's the wife/lands bits that are "new," according to this theory. We know that Sam leaves those out and no one has said otherwise. If you're going to argue something, make sure the books say what you think they do. If you want to argue that it's Dawn, fine, but please don't make stuff up.

Edited by Apple Martini, 17 February 2012 - 10:28 AM.

[Winter's Lady]

Quote

You need to go back and reread that, because Sam DOES SAY the sword in the darkness part. I don't have the book on me now, but he might say the sword bit first, get a response from the gate, and then go into the rest. However it's said, the sword part is in there. Someone with Storm of Swords handy can verify it if they want. In fact, it's because Sam does mention the sword bit that a lot of us think it lends credence to the Night's Watch theory. It's the wife/lands bits that are "new," according to this theory. We know that Sam leaves those out and no one has said otherwise. If you're going to argue something, make sure the books say what you think they do. If you want to argue that it's Dawn, fine, but please don't make stuff up.

Ugh I had the same problem yesterday. Someone said that Sam didn't say the sword part, and because I couldn't remember exactly, I freaked out for a second and started to doubt the NW = Lightbringer theory. But I looked it up and the text actually goes:

"I am the sword in the darkness" Samwell Tarly said. "I am the watcher..."and so on. So it's actually the very first thing he says. Whew.

[Apple Martini]

Lady of Oldcastle, on 17 February 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Ugh I had the same problem yesterday. Someone said that Sam didn't say the sword part, and because I couldn't remember exactly, I freaked out for a second and started to doubt the NW = Lightbringer theory. But I looked it up and the text actually goes:

"I am the sword in the darkness" Samwell Tarly said. "I am the watcher..."and so on. So it's actually the very first thing he says. Whew.

Thanks for verifying. I knew this was the case because I argued the same thing a few days ago. But I'm always paranoid when I don't have my books with me.

And again, look at the wording. It's not, "I wield the sword in the darkness." It's, "I AM the sword in the darkness."

Edited by Apple Martini, 17 February 2012 - 10:48 AM.