24 replies to this topic

[Drowsey Dragon]

Why does Stannis linger and comment on this. He places great emphasis on the peach Renly was eating during their encounter. Is there some deeper significance I am missing here?

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Eat a peach for peace, man. No but seriously I think the peach Renly offers comes to signify in Stannis' mind the difference between their personalities and it's also sort of the apex of Renly's mockery of Stannis. Stannis is a seriously repressed and stoic kind of guy while Renly is outgoing and jovial. Stannis served his older brother even when it meant betraying his King, and now Stannis is King by the laws of succession and Renly is not only not serving his King but also not serving his older brother. And while Stannis is toughing it out on Dragonstone as he is commanded, Renly is eating succulent fruits in King's Landing and Highgarden. Stannis has only duty and hardness, while Renly has happiness and frivolity.

Stannis is infuriated by Renly offering him a peach when he owes him loyalty and a kingdom, but somehow I feel like Stannis wishes he could have the peach and all it represents instead. He wishes he could be like Renly, well-loved and happy.

[TheDrawback]

the song Peaches by Presidents of the USA immediately came to mind xDI can really find myself in OnionAhai's comment by the way. It makes a lot of sense

Edited by TheDrawback, 16 February 2012 - 02:47 AM.

[wyman's cook]

Eat a peach for peace, man.

loved that line hahah

[Chise]

Drowsey Dragon, on 15 February 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Why does Stannis linger and comment on this. He places great emphasis on the peach Renly was eating during their encounter. Is there some deeper significance I am missing here?

Just put yourself in his place for a second: your brother is your enemy now.. and while you don't exactly burst with love for him, you aren't really wishing him dead either. Your last meeting with him, and this brother is just his usual cheerful self and just offers you a peach....   and in a few hours this guy is DEAD. Not just dead, but has his throat ripped open, and you have a feeling shadowbinder someone working for you is responsible. It wasn't even an honorable death on field of battle, but sneaky & shady (all puns intended)

Stannis loved his lil bro, the death & circumstances just really shook him up. Nothing too supernatural there

[Ygrette]

I agree with Onion, it's the notion I got from that scene as well. Renly never plays by the rules, what infuriates Stannis and probably has for a long time. I'm not sure it's anywhere in the books, but I bet they've had that kind of relationship from early childhood. Stannis just can't wrap his mind around his brother, he is so stubbornly preoccupied with the law, the rules, honour, right and wrong, that he completely misses the point of enjoying life.

If I think about it, Stannis is very much like my father who built his company with devotion and lots of work and is completely flabberghasted by my decision to refuse his firm and go buy a horse farm in Finland and frolick through the snow while listening to fantasy stories. I used to playfully mock him like Renly did with the peach. All I did was annoy him.

Spoiler

(I just hope he won't send a shadow after me to slit my throat.)

So, to me, this explanation was quite obvious and almost amusing that Stannis would intellectually try to understand the gesture. Somewhat like Spock or Data trying to figure out human humour.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Ygrette, on 17 February 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

I agree with Onion, it's the notion I got from that scene as well. Renly never plays by the rules, what infuriates Stannis and probably has for a long time. I'm not sure it's anywhere in the books, but I bet they've had that kind of relationship from early childhood. Stannis just can't wrap his mind around his brother, he is so stubbornly preoccupied with the law, the rules, honour, right and wrong, that he completely misses the point of enjoying life.

If I think about it, Stannis is very much like my father who built his company with devotion and lots of work and is completely flabberghasted by my decision to refuse his firm and go buy a horse farm in Finland and frolick through the snow while listening to fantasy stories. I used to playfully mock him like Renly did with the peach. All I did was annoy him.

Funny, your description of your relationship with your dad kind of reminds me of Jaime and Tywin

[Hookd]

Drowsey Dragon, on 15 February 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Why does Stannis linger and comment on this. He places great emphasis on the peach Renly was eating during their encounter. Is there some deeper significance I am missing here?

I also think that the peach comment was another slapped in the face about how Robert treated them both.  Here Renly got the very opulent Storm's End will all it's abundance and Renly got Dragonstone with all it's problems.  Stannis was still very bothered by the siege that left Dragonstone without food until Lord Stark broke the blockade. I think it was also a dig at Stannis by Renly.

I love Catelyn's comment that she'd lock them in a room and bang their heads together and remind them they are brothers.

[Sarnius]

Isn't it obvious George will expand on it later? It obviously holds great meaning.

[The Reeds]

I kind of took the peach as another example of how Renly is not taking the situation he's in seriously. It's not just Stannis he's not taking seriously, it's the entire war. It's like when Catelyn appears to go treat with Renly on Robb's orders and she sees them all holding tournaments, then they go and have a giant dinner. She realizes that hardly any of these summer knights that Renly has have ever seen a real war and all they know about it is what they've heard in songs. Renly thinks he can roll over Stannis and the Lannisters with his numbers alone, but as Jon often says, discipline beats numbers every time.

I have to say that I really disliked Renly in this scene. He came off to me as little kid putting his thumb on his nose and saying, "Nyah nyah" to Stannis. I also loved Catelyn's reaction to the whole thing, where she says she'd lock them in a room together to remind them that they were brothers.

On a side note, I saw a comic drawn out about this very scene in chibi anime form. It's from deviantart and all credit goes to the artist. http://regendy.devia...set=24#/d2srtz2

[NymeriaArya]

[img]http://www.facebook....nt_count=1[/img]

[LuisDantas]

Interesting.  

Myself, I see the peach as Renly's reminder to Stannis that all this talk of rights and duties is ultimately a bit alienated.  When push comes to shove, both of them are men with hopes, needs and limitations just like everyone else, and Stannis so often blinds himself to the little pleasures of every day that he misses a lot of significant things - such as the shallowness of his pursuit of a throne that he lacks support to truly keep.

Renly, by contrast, is a realist (and as we learn soon enough, the most honorable of the two brothers).  He knows that they are playing a hugh, dangerous game and that it will be wise to savor whatever joys they can get of it while they can.

On a more immediate level, the peach is an effective way of breaking Stannis' bureaucratic speech and the solemn atmosphere that he hopes to establish.

@hookd: Are you talking about the siege that made it so important that Davos smuggled food for Stannis?  That was at Storm's End, not Dragonstone, I'm fairly certain.

[Kate Poem]

For me that peach was a thing, what showed a differences between these brothers.
Something similar, for example, between Renly's tent and Stannis tent, their personalities, even their most loyal people etc. etc.
That summer fruit become even more important later...
After Renly's death Stannis said he will be always remember his brother's peach.

@Luis Dantas, please. This topic is about Stannis and peach - why You must write (again) who was honorable and who was'nt in Your opinion?
Maybe You should create topic  Stannis is evil?

[LuisDantas]

Anyone who follows my posts for any length of time knows that I do indeed believe that Stannis is evil, Kate.  

I'm sorry that it bothers you so much, but that is how the chips fell.

Maybe I shouldn't mention that so much, either. But at least in this thread what I think of Stannis (or perhaps more accurately, what I see Renly as thinking of Stannis) is quite crucial to my take on the thread topic.

[Ser Arthur Robert]

TheDrawback, on 16 February 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

the song Peaches by Presidents of the USA immediately came to mind xDI can really find myself in OnionAhai's comment by the way. It makes a lot of sense

Thanks, if that song gets in my head, it will be there for days.

[Cory]

LuisDantas, on 11 July 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

Interesting.  

Myself, I see the peach as Renly's reminder to Stannis that all this talk of rights and duties is ultimately a bit alienated.  When push comes to shove, both of them are men with hopes, needs and limitations just like everyone else, and Stannis so often blinds himself to the little pleasures of every day that he misses a lot of significant things - such as the shallowness of his pursuit of a throne that he lacks support to truly keep.

Renly, by contrast, is a realist (and as we learn soon enough, the most honorable of the two brothers).  He knows that they are playing a hugh, dangerous game and that it will be wise to savor whatever joys they can get of it while they can.

On a more immediate level, the peach is an effective way of breaking Stannis' bureaucratic speech and the solemn atmosphere that he hopes to establish.

@hookd: Are you talking about the siege that made it so important that Davos smuggled food for Stannis?  That was at Storm's End, not Dragonstone, I'm fairly certain.

Correct, Stannis defended storms end during the rebellion, nearly starved but held it all the same as his brother Robert commanded. And it return Robert gifted Renly with storms end. Stannis of course took that as insult from both Robert and Renly, increasing his "affections" for them both.

[AchillesReborn]

Maybe in the past Renly offered Stannis a male prostitute thinking that Stannis would  enjoy it, but he took great offense. Now Renly is metaphorically reminding him by offering him a "fruit". Renly probably always wanted to be friendly with his brother but they couldn't understand each-other because Renly was gay. Renly than eats the fruit to say it was a gift not a insult, showing that he would have taken the fruit.

Edited by a310050, 29 April 2013 - 06:18 PM.

[James Arryn]

I think Renly is much more capable of abstract thought. We see in his conversation with Cat that the subjects that occupy his mind are wide-ranging, and he is somewhat progressive in his thinking. Stannis is...or at least purports to be...much more linear and blinkered. Renly's wider vision has him in more of a real politique frame of mind; A few other points worth mentioning: Renly did not betray Stannis or declare war on him: Stannis had done nothing except take off and hide in Dragonstone once Jon Arryn died. Renly stayed by Robert's side and sought ways to protect him. When Robert died, Renly declared war on Joffrey. Stannis was not the king, was not seen as the king, and had not declared himself king. Renly opposed Joff, gathered the greatest army in Westeros and was on his way to winning when Stannis foolishly attacks Storm's End, assassinates Renly via sorcery, and then

Spoiler

loses the battle for KL

. More, as you will find the more you read Stannis, he is VERY rigid about what people should do...except for people who are rightful king (meaning himself) in which case, everything you do is inherently justified. It also wasn't true when Robert was the rightful King...Stannis complained to him constantly, somehow overcoming his 'King's word is the law' mindset. Renly would, imo, have made a much better King. Stannis absolutely has moments of righteousness that stand above most others in the series, but he has even more moments of self-righteous hypocrisy. In this case, I think Renly was legitimately saying 'It's a good life, Stannis. It's  full of wonder and beauty. It does not conform to your will, and yet it is delicious. Enjoy it if you can. If not, the joke's on you.   He sees that Stannis, which spends most of his time going over the accounts of who owes him what, believes the rest of the world spends it's time going over accounts of what they owe Stannis, and if not, they should be. Reny does not expect that from others, but understands there is more to life than accounts. Sadly, Stannis disagrees so strongly he will dabble in sorcery and kinslaying; 2 things he would burn others for doing.

[weaselontherun]

It is a dig to remind Stannis by Renly that Edric, Gendry and Mya are not Robert's only byblows there is also Bella at the Peach in Stoney Sept.......

Edited by weaselontherun, 08 May 2013 - 07:44 AM.

[Queen Visenya]

I've been digging a lot in GRRMs interviews lately and I found this (just want to share it to everybody):

Spoiler

In the second book Renly gives Stannis a peach. What did you want to tell us with that?

The peach represents... Well... It's pleasure. It's tasting the juices of life. Stannis is a very marshal men concerned with his duty and with that peach Renly says: "Smell the roses," because Stannis is always concerned with his duty and honor, in what he should be doing and he never really stops to taste the fruit. Renly wants him to taste the fruit but it's lost. I wish that scene had been included in the TV series because for me that peach was important, but it wasn't possible.