120 replies to this topic

[Hodorific]

Anyone else afraid that Arya is going to end up a villainous gal?  I think her moral compass is (understandably) well on its way to needing calibration.  

GRRM has flipped a few "bad-guys"... I wonder what he has in store for our little assassin.

[Solaris]

Not worried at all. I think she will toe the line becoming a master of whispers like Varys but in the service of herself/family. Well this is my hope anyhow.

[Serie]

not worried here as well although its a bit debatable what is good and what is bad. Arya seems to have a solid moral background in the sense that she would fight for the honor and safety of her family. Now some may argue that she has already committed murder more than once and not always to defend herself/family. Fair enough, however does this qualify someone as a villain in the world of westeros? we have more than one examples where people committed murders but people felt this was something they could forgive "in the context of westeros". Moreover Arya is not a saint. She is a fighter.

to make a long story short, she might do some pretty awful things but she won't lose herself, or forget who she is. I'm more worried about Sansa there. And that's mainly because I'm a girl of symbolism and she lost her direwolf after all....

[Hodorific]

I hope you are right, and I had not thought about the symbolism of Sansa.  Scary call.

But Arya lost her wolf, as well.  During my reread, I am seeing some scary things.  Like when she won't talk about her "dark deeds" early on, yet kills for much less later in the series.  And her influences are increasingly less-honorable as she moves through the Song.  

Like I said, I understand why she may... I just hope that she remains a hero.  If she doesn't, she will be my favorite villain of all time.  And that may be GRRM's goal!

[Solaris]

Arya and Nymeria still share a relationship through wolf dreams, she fortunately hasn't completely disconnected from her. As Serie said, Sansa is a worry head full of dreams and nothing solid to latch onto coupled with the loss of Lady. I think that Sansa represents the Lone Wolf that Ned was taking to Arya about and how important it is to keep the pack together.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

I think that she will be fine. She has always seemed pretty true to herself. I think she will do the FM thing for awhile and then eventually leave to do something better with her life. Plus GRRM's wife says that Arya is her favorite character, so theres no way he will kill her off or send her down a dark path. Maybe briefly, but overall I see her being good.

[Elaena Targaryen]

I think we are supposed to question if Arya is on a dark path, like with other characters. Some we liked from the start and now Martin is trying us with their choices, some we did not like from the start and now we can question that as well. I can see Arya being pushed to far here and reaching a breaking point. Arya has also showed concern what her family might think about her killing someone, but now she thinks they are dead or will never see them again. What will happen when Arya finds out some are alive or even when she is reunited with one of them? I still think it is possible Arya will use the skills she has learned but maybe not in such a questionable way as we have seen. I agree with her choices so far, and I know most do not, but I do wonder just how far can she push it? I think I would always love her but most already think Arya has gone too far so what will they think if she gets even darker? I think there should be some type of redemption for her, I don’t think in the end Arya is supposed to be a villain. Arya just is off track, which is understandable after what she has gone through, and I see her finding the right way again. How can you cheer for her choices as a kick ass character when you question those same choices? Another thing to keep in mind is if Arya kills the Evil Great Other then she would be a hero, but this is not that kind of story.

[protar]

I think all the Stark children are becoming a lot darker and morally grey and I say bring it on! Morally ambiguous characters is what Martin does, so it seems a bit odd that the main family of the story is comprised of a load of good two shoes. I think that's been changing gradually over the course of the series with Arya starting down the path of darkness first, but the others are catching up. And I still think there's a way to go.

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

I can see Arya getting darker still but I don't think she'll end up a villian or a "bad guy".  I think it's promising that Arya retained Needle and she still has her wolf dreams so I don't think she'll completely lose her "Stark-ness" and thus will never become a "bad guy".  I agree with protar that all of the Stark children are becoming more moraly ambiguous which IMO bodes well for House Stark.

In the end I can see Arya getting even darker but in the end I'll think she'll retain some of her empathy and honor thus she will never completely cross the line.

[Stop Rhaegar HAMMERTIME!]

Arya is my very favourite little sociopath ! I think that she will always be a "good" character although I would like to see her get darker but I'm pretty sure she's gonna bail on the FM training and head back to the north with Stannis' sellswords (I think/hope all 4 Stark kids and Jon come together and form a fist to smash the south, I mean you've got a commander, a FM with a wolf army, a super powerful warg, Lady of Winterfell/ Eyrie and a wildman. Alas GRRM will not let this happen). I think that she only kills because of necessity  when Arya is back around her family and safe she wouldn't need to kill.

[Lady Blackfyre]

Arya may be a severely misguided little girl right now, but I think she's still very far from becoming a "villain". I don't see Arya as inherently perverse, honorless or lacking empathy (the hallmarks of most "villains").

As other people in this board, I strongly believe Arya will quit (or at least stray from) the FM training sometime soon. I think she has to be put back into the main story somehow, and I can't imagine how she could be inserted into the ongoing plots as a generic FM (and barely trained, at that)... while I can imagine her coming back as Arya Stark easily enough.

Edited by LadyBlackfyre, 18 February 2012 - 02:53 PM.

[Jadiecat]

I agree, Arya is teetering on the dark on the dark side. Maybe that's even generous. She's gaining great power, but losing the humanity and sense of justice that are part of what make her  so incredible. I wouldn't bet against her, but Arya needs to reclaim her identity soon, and she's a long way gone.

She'll need to retain some of that dark, though. 

While I think Sansa, by becoming Alayne, is finding herself. She's shaking off the attributes of the "lady" she was shaped to be, attributes that didn't help her at all in the situation she found herself (passivity, unquestioning acceptance, surface appraisals).  She's wising up, listening to important truths she probably always knew, moving slowly toward taking more responsibility for what happens to her and the people around her. The nice thing is, she's still a little bird, she's still sweet, mothering, and she still believes in love, and loving, and being loved, after all, but she can tell a pearl from a swine, now. She isn't going to become a warrior, but she's going to become herself: a little bird to be reckoned with.

I almost wish she would adopt Alayne, let "Sansa" fall away, escape all this, and go live in a cottage with some gravedigger.

While I hope Arya fights hard to find the best of Arya again, and becomes one of the leaders that I think are badly needed.  

[denigmatic]

Arya's on her way to becoming her own Nymeria, in a way. She's not truly bad by any means, but she's more than willing to do what it takes to succeed. That's part of why she's consistently been one of my favorite characters to read.

[Ice Turtle]

She may be becoming one of those bad women who would make good queens, to twist Aemon's words a little.

[Stop Rhaegar HAMMERTIME!]

Jadiecat, on 18 February 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

I almost wish she would adopt Alayne, let "Sansa" fall away, escape all this, and go live in a cottage with some gravedigger.

Nice ! I like the Sandor reference , altho I don't get all the hound and little bird  love!

[Jadiecat]

Stop Rhaegar HAMMERTIME!, on 18 February 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Nice ! I like the Sandor reference , altho I don't get all the hound and little bird  love!

You must not be a sappy romantic.

[akajea]

Even if she turns into a sociopath I will still like her. But if I had to put money on it I'd say she isn't going to. She and Rickon are more like actual direwolves, fierce and savage. I don't think the Starks were always nice and honorable like Ned.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Arya is a true she-wolf, imo, Stark to the bone no matter how much she pretends to be "no one."  She'd better come back and kick some enemy ass, and when she's done I hope she gets Winterfell and maintains the line of wolves in the North.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

I think Arya will still play a huge role in the conclusion of the series, but in order to do that, GRRM is showing us that shoes not the cute, rebellious little tomboy anymore that she once was. She is a killer, and has done it not only as a FM but when she killed Dareon because he had fled the nights watch. I think this is an example of how she has the strong values of honor that Ned had. (Jon Snow too).  While I believe Jon Snow will be the most influential "Winterfell"character at the conclusion, both Arya and Bran will be close runner-ups.

[Elaena Targaryen]

Jadiecat, on 18 February 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

I agree, Arya is teetering on the dark on the dark side. Maybe that's even generous. She's gaining great power, but losing the humanity and sense of justice that are part of what make her  so incredible. I wouldn't bet against her, but Arya needs to reclaim her identity soon, and she's a long way gone.

She'll need to retain some of that dark, though.

While I think Sansa, by becoming Alayne, is finding herself. She's shaking off the attributes of the "lady" she was shaped to be, attributes that didn't help her at all in the situation she found herself (passivity, unquestioning acceptance, surface appraisals).  She's wising up, listening to important truths she probably always knew, moving slowly toward taking more responsibility for what happens to her and the people around her. The nice thing is, she's still a little bird, she's still sweet, mothering, and she still believes in love, and loving, and being loved, after all, but she can tell a pearl from a swine, now. She isn't going to become a warrior, but she's going to become herself: a little bird to be reckoned with.

I almost wish she would adopt Alayne, let "Sansa" fall away, escape all this, and go live in a cottage with some gravedigger.

While I hope Arya fights hard to find the best of Arya again, and becomes one of the leaders that I think are badly needed.  

I like your thoughts on Arya and I can see her become one of the leaders that are needed, I'm curious how/where/who/what because I see a few options there.

On Sansa one thing does make me wonder; it's the way she is desenitized to Littlefinger's violent actions. She was terrified of Joff but seems accepting of LF. I wonder if this means she'll be more ruthless, going to the dark side a little, or if it's part of her freedom with Alayne. It may help her understand Arya a little better when they reunite.