120 replies to this topic

[Lady Blackfyre]

Poor Missandei. I have this feeling she's going to die in some horrible way. A nice child, dear to a main character but not politically important? She's definitely doomed.

[Solaris]

Neriwyn, on 20 February 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

For that, she has to kill Missendei no ? I hope you're wrong.

I honestly don't know. To be honest it's a toss up between her and Myrcella's face or both. I just think that her going to Westeros in Dany's train is the best way to get there, she is close to all the power players and because of that is most likely to encounter word of her own family through them in a shorter space of time. (I like Missandei too, death by Arya would be sad/unfair but there is a lot that is def sad/unfair in this series).

[Independent George]

Arya could not double as Missandei without several years of training specifically for it; she doesn't have the same gift of languages, which is the whole Missandei had that post in Astapor. Arya speaks the common tongue of Westeros, the Bravosi dialect of High Valyrian, and bits and pieces of other tongue which she picked up in the streets. I believe Missandei's native tongue is the Ghiscari dialect, and most likely knows that of several other cities as well.

[elkolea]

Well i have another theory about Aryas return to Westeros. Like some other wise people here have stated i think there is no way that Arya will be able to leave the FM. They are just to powerfull and i think Arya is well aware of that. Now, i dont think that she will be returning with Justin Massey, they probably wont even meet. I dont think it would be wise to bring Jeyne Pool to Braavos and say she Arya. For her own protection it would be better to keep her, in this case, false identity secret. So even if Arya saw them she probably woudnt notice who she is seeing.
But in my opinion there is another very plausible way. VARYS. Whats Varys favorite answer to any question? "i only serve the realm". I think there is a strong conection between the way Varys behaves and the way the FM work. All that about becoming no-one, meaning having no family or any other emotional feelings towards anybody. Varys kind of does all of this quite well even to the point that he became litterally no man at all and what do we really know about Varys apart from what he wants us to know. So my theory goes that Varys is one of the Faceless Man and i think them as kind of a balancing force in all that big conflicts between Houses and may be even religions. So my guess is that Varys beeing one of them send someone for Arya to get here to Braavos. It is very possible that Varys knew Jagen and send him after seeing Arya in person. Her hole caracter kind of fits ins the i-want-to-be-an-assasin application. She is quite unhappy with her beeing Arya Stark, the younger sister of Sansa Stark and would rather be a knight or some kind of fighter. At the same time she has some strong sense for justice regardingless if she is defending some butchers boy which will clearly bring her into a lot of trouble. And yet she stands by her point no matter what. I think Varys might even have send Syrio to her. For all i know it wasnt Ned, but correct me if im wrong. And she beeing quite fast learning and even doing some stuff that could be related to the things she has do to with the FM. Chasing cats, that sounds kind of familiar. And she is already learning beeing various caracters during her journey wich for me strongly indicates towardsba more important relationship to the FM. So all in one. She wont quit.
And there is another thing i noticed that might be important. The hole putting on a knew face thing. There is clearly something more to it than some stupid disguise. Now we know that there are skinchangers in more than one house and that there are different levels to their abbilities. I think you need at least some kind of it to do what they do. Like the first stage of skinchanging. Putting on a knew face but physsicly staying in your own body. So Varys hearing all about Lady and the other wolves and possibly knowing that the Starks are quite strong with that gift would possibly know about Arya beeing a Warg, even if she doesnt know. So hearing through the ears of a cat, as Arya does later in Braavos, would be a quite usefull gift for Varys right. But wait, Varys allready has his little birds. BAAM Yes i think Vary is a skingchanger to. He just knows to much humanly possible, even with all these hidden tunnels beneath the Red Keep and some boys in the yard. I think Varys is using his abbilities and litterally using birds to come to all his knowledge. So he is there in the Red Keep, serving only the realm or everybody (many faced god) keeping balance and ultimately keeping the realm at peace. Now you could say wait, Varys is helping some people more or less continously, wich would happen to be the Targaryan kids. Well he does that, but as we see only to a certain point, see the actual happening of an attempt to poison dany. Well i guess Robert would have been pretty pissed if Varys would have denied him, so in this case that was best to keep things from getting out of control with Robert and Varys knowing that there is another Targ hidden out there the best he could do to keep the peace. I think in the end Varys wants the Targaryans to survive because im quite sure he thinks they are their best shot against whats coming in the north. I think Varys i aware of the very unstable situation in the game of who-can-keep-his-ass-on-the-throne-the-longest and in the end he will go down with one of them. And thats where Arya and her cats come into play. I think she is trained to do Varys job when the situation escalates and Varys can no longer be part of it. And Arya will step in and take his position at the counsel. And she will be doing great beeing the ultimate judging force at the kings side. I bet she would love that, even better if Rickon becomes King. Hail King Rickon of House Stark, the first of his name.
And one more. If Varys is just a mummors play, who could he really be. And if im not wrong it could even be that hes a stark after all or a least was until he joined the FM. I dindt check if anybody fits and it could be total bullshit but that woud be awesome.
So thats for Aryas return to Westeros and i would love it -
Cheeriio GM keep on working

[elkolea]

So lets put it all together real quick

crackpot!
Arya will porbably return with Westeros with Dany. They might have a quick stop at the wall, but i doubt that. Meanwhile Jon beeing LC on the wall and staying true is "dealing" with the others, with, of course, Brans help. Hell he might even meet Dany but even knowing that he is the true king, yes he is the son of R and L, and having Dany right there hell be all cool "naaah, my place is on the wall" I think Aemon made a hint at this . Ultimately Rickon, mabye with Stannis help will become Lord of Winterfell and than chooses Dany over Stannis and becomes King defeating Stannis. Aegon will die by the way. I dont know yet how to put in the dragons

[Dena]

It's possible that Varys is a FM or has some kind of connection with the Iron Bank, and maybe the FM are training Arya to become a new Varys, but I don't think Varys is a warg or a skinchanger (his little birds are small children without tongue that gather information for him). I also doubt he knew Arya was a warg (he never saw her with Nymeria, back then she didn't have any wolf dreams or anything that would give him a clue and all skinchangers lived only north of the Wall for a long time)

Regarding Syrio, it's possible that he is a FM, but I don't think so, I think that all the water dancer lessons and the chasing cats it's something normal in Bravoos, it's the way they fight, it doesn't mean he is a FM.
I wonder why Jaquen gave Arya that coin, maybe he saw potential in her, but if his mission was to get her to Bravoos he didn't do a very good job, the only reason she went there was because her mother and brother had died at the RW, Sansa was captive, the rest of her relatives didn't even know her, the Hound was going to die, Jon was at the Wall where she couldn't go on her own, and she didn't come across the BwB, any of this happens and she would be in Westeros (or maybe in Bravoos to keep her safe, but no as a FM apprentice).

I also fear she can't just leave the FM, but if something happens that makes her act as Arya again they might kick her out (keeping her alive in exchange of important information from Westeros or sometimes going on missions for them), the FM are too dark and mysterious to suppose anything about them. I guess that's my wish of Arya not losing becoming no one talking.
IMO she is not even close to being a completely trained FM, she is still in the early stages of the process (if TKOM was being honest they still have to take her ears, her legs, and apparently every part of her body and soul, so far she has only be blinded and they gave her back her sight because she cheated with the cat, she still remembers her list everyday, she has the wolf dreams and is warging cats), I know Arya's story is one of the most unbelievable so far specially because of her age, but making her an incredible assassin in a year or so would be too much even for me. About the FM knowing she is a warg, they might suspect it, but if they knew for sure why did they give her eyes back? it they knew she cheated, why would they move on with her training? can they see what she is dreaming? I also don't think the magic they use to out faces and warning are connected, wargs are rare and it seems like all of them are descendants of the First men, we never hear anything about them in the Free cities, it seems that kind of magic is linked to the Old Gods alone.

Edited by Dena, 22 February 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[Howling Mad]

Five things will happen for sure:

1.  Arya will returm to Westeros;
2.  Arya will be reunited with Nymeria;
3.  Arya will put her FM training to use;
4.  Arya will find a use for her new foriegn language skills;
5.  Arya will be reunited with her surviving syblings.

Its the circumstances of each of the above that is unknown.

[Revan Baratheon]

Howling4Reed, on 29 February 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

Five things will happen for sure:

1.  Arya will returm to Westeros;
2.  Arya will be reunited with Nymeria;
3.  Arya will put her FM training to use;
4.  Arya will find a use for her new foriegn language skills;
5.  Arya will be reunited with her surviving syblings.

Its the circumstances of each of the above that
is unknown.

Huh Thank you Captain Obvious

[ManyFacedOne]

Hodorific, on 16 February 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

Anyone else afraid that Arya is going to end up a villainous gal?  I think her moral compass is (understandably) well on its way to needing calibration.  

I think her hands will definitely be soaked in blood by the end. She's going to have to be cold, cunning, and absolutely ruthless towards her targets if she's going to make it through this and mark some names off her list.

So yeah, she's probably going to have to descend a bit further into darkness. I can't wait myself.

[Howling Mad]

Revan Baratheon, on 29 February 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

Huh Thank you Captain Obvious

Your welcome

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

akajea, on 18 February 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Even if she turns into a sociopath I will still like her. But if I had to put money on it I'd say she isn't going to. She and Rickon are more like actual direwolves, fierce and savage. I don't think the Starks were always nice and honorable like Ned.

Honorable and nice are two different things. Ned wasn't too nice to the NW deserter who tried to warn them about The Others. Arya will be fine.

[chavalah]

I wouldn't go as far to say that the Faceless Men are an "evil" organization.  They are a cult that believes in the sanctity of death, which they pass without judgment and in the service of others.  Most people we've encountered in this story are engaged in a game of death--whether they kill for pleasure or a sense of duty.

Arya kills (and desires to kill) for self-serving, judgmental reasons.  Her main lesson in aDwD was to kill the old man without passing judgment on him, which was something she struggled with.  The Faceless Men are about submitting to a higher power, and Arya's never been submissive.  She's fiercely individualist, whether it's about her litany of death or whether or not she'll try to be a lady for her family, as the mores of Westeros require of her.  Yes, she is also fiercely loyal to her family and those she lets into her circle.  But she's never quite been one to "do her duty" and act for the interest of the group if it goes against her own interests, despite the fact that ASOIAF, unlike much of the modern age, reveres the community over the individual.

She's defying the Faceless Men both consciously and subconsciously; with Needle and waging she remains Arya Stark even though their rules strictly say that she must become no one.  She wants to stay with them because she wants "a pack," but as usual her individual desires are going against the group.  Though there is something to be said for the possibility that she resembles the fierceness of the north.  Ned should have fostered her with the Mormonts.

Perhaps the Faceless Men could teach her to let go of some of her individual rage, but I'm not sure that's possible if she remains Arya Stark against their wishes.  I can't deny that I hope she might "gentle the rage inside her," to steal her sister's line.  Vengeance is crippling and destructive, if Lady Stoneheart is any indication.  I definitely do see her as a lone wolf right now, someone who may have to find a true home before she can find her true way.

[James Arryn]

I don't think that kind of anti-social stuff can be flipped off. I've been fairly sure she was beyond redemption since she didn't put the dog out of his misery.

[ManyFacedOne]

James Arryn, on 16 March 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

I don't think that kind of anti-social stuff can be flipped off.

Sure it can. See Cat of the Canals.

That's not to say she won't go deeper. She will but she wasn't at that point anyway.

[Lord of Long Lake]

EVen if she does, who cares??  She's awesome! Wooooo

[Plem]

I think Arya's character has reached kind of a dead end (just as Bran's): If she wants to keep going she has to lose her identity completely but if she does she won't be the person the readers care about any longer. I can't really see where GRRM is going with this. Since ACOK the driving force behind her actions has been vengeance, but if she becomes a Faceless Man she won't be allowed to kill anyone she knows, so she will probably have to betray the FM, who in turn will be after her I would imagine. Either way, I don't see any sort of happy end for her.

[jon's_mom]

I love the way GRRM puts a murdering psychopath into the POV and turns Arya into a kind of anti-hero.

Like... when you read Arya's POV she only "likes" people who are of benefit to her and let her act out her act out her idiosyncratic ways. She feels no empathy for anyone else and only regrets past interactions because it blows her cover as a murdering psychopath.

Great writing by GRRM. Not many authors could get into the head of an emerging pre-teen psychopathic murderer.

[just an Other]

I think she will be savage and ruthless, but fiercely loyal and with a strong sence of duty and justice. Not unlike Nymeria, who is a terror to the riverlands, but her pack has never fared better. I do expect internal conflict over her actions as she gains a more adult perspective.

[Plem]

just an Other, on 18 March 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

I do expect internal conflict over her actions as she gains a more adult perspective.

Honestly, I think she's past the point of being able to distinguish between right and wrong. In my opinion, the turning point was when she killed that Brother of the Night's Watch who was travelling with Sam. Justifying it by saying that he was a deserter and that he deserved to die to me suggests that she has lost her moral code.

[just an Other]

Her judgement of others derives from their attitude towards others and what she understands of honour. Daeron was sorely lacking in both counts. Her sense of right and wrong is very black and white, as one would expect of a child of that age, made dangerous by her ability and willingness to act on it. Also, her dream in her last ADWD chapter, where she sees the faces of her victims along with those of her dead family members staring at her, indicates that she feels the weight of her actions, even though she doesn't allow herself to deviate from her chosen course of action.