20 replies to this topic

[King Beyond The Wall]

I finished reading ACoK , and was expecting some explanation about the buried bundle he and Ghost found at the outskirts of the "Fist of the First Men".

It also confused me a lot and no other character in the book seemed to pay any attention to it, as if it was something ordinary for a black brother to bury his cloak with a bundle full of dragonglass so far beyond the wall.... :-\

I hope it will be explained later on the series, as I also hope that Benjen is still alive (maybe he will meet him at the wildlings' camp?) [crossing my fingers]

[Ygrette]

Are you sure it's 100% certain that it's a cloak of the night's watch?
I mean, I agree - that's abviously what we're supposed to believe at this point, but I'm not entirely sure if it's confirmed or just a black cloak in the hands of someone who happens to be looking for a black brother.

Ghost wants to make sure Jon finds it, but...

(Minor ASoS Spoiler)

Spoiler

...the dragonglass weapons will otherwise come in handy, so that might as well have been the reason he lead Jon to the bundle, not necessarily because it's Benjen's.

[Hookd]

King Beyond The Wall, on 18 February 2012 - 04:12 AM, said:

I finished reading ACoK , and was expecting some explanation about the buried bundle he and Ghost found at the outskirts of the "Fist of the First Men".

It also confused me a lot and no other character in the book seemed to pay any attention to it, as if it was something ordinary for a black brother to bury his cloak with a bundle full of dragonglass so far beyond the wall.... :-\

I think that there are alot of things that are not fully explained in the novel.  They must be explained later in the series.  The other thing is why not look for more then?


BTW, do you think that Lord Mormont knows of the plan that Halfhand had for Jon?

[Xtopher]

Hookd, on 22 February 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

I think that there are alot of things that are not fully explained in the novel.  They must be explained later in the series.  The other thing is why not look for more then?


BTW, do you think that Lord Mormont knows of the plan that Halfhand had for Jon?

I THINK that at some point one of the nightswatch men says that its common for a crow to be buried with their cloak and sword or something like that, i cant really remember that exactly, but at the time it seemed to me that it was a logical explanation for the things Jon found.

[YoungGriffAgeonVI]

Xtopher, on 22 February 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

I THINK that at some point one of the nightswatch men says that its common for a crow to be buried with their cloak and sword or something like that, i cant really remember that exactly, but at the time it seemed to me that it was a logical explanation for the things Jon found.

If i remember correctly there werent any bones signifying that it was a grave site. But buried there deliberately by someone/thing.

[Xtopher]

you may be right, i´ll have to check that again in the book.

[Hookd]

YoungGriffAgeonVI, on 23 February 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

If i remember correctly there werent any bones signifying that it was a grave site. But buried there deliberately by someone/thing.

Yes.. there  were no bones..just the black cloak and the weapons.

[Ygrette]

If I remember correctly, it was never even confirmed that it was a Night's Watch cloak. Just a black cloak that might (or might not) have been from a black brother.

[King Beyond The Wall]

Quote

I THINK that at some point one of the nightswatch men says that its common for a crow to be buried with their cloak and sword or something like that, i cant really remember that exactly, but at the time it seemed to me that it was a logical explanation for the things Jon found.

There were no bones inside, only dragonglass and a broken warhorn

Quote

If I remember correctly, it was never even confirmed that it was a Night's Watch cloak. Just a black cloak that might (or might not) have been from a black brother.

Indeed it was never said firmly that it was a night watch cloak, only a black cloak...but then what is a black cloak if not a night's watch? I mean GRRM could be playing some nasty mind games with us, deliberate or not....

Quote

BTW, do you think that Lord Mormont knows of the plan that Halfhand had for Jon?

I Hadn't thought about Lord Mormont knowing of Halfhand's plan... but now that you mention it, why not? It even sounds logical...

Edited by King Beyond The Wall, 24 February 2012 - 03:51 PM.

[Crown]

King Beyond The Wall, on 24 February 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

I Hadn't thought about Lord Mormont knowing of Halfhand's plan... but now that you mention it, why not? It even sounds logical...

I always thought it was Mormont his plan.

[Xtopher]

Crown, on 27 February 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

I always thought it was Mormont his plan.

If so, then why Jon?

[Crown]

Xtopher, on 27 February 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

If so, then why Jon?

He also chose Jon as his personal 'guard', so I think Mormont trusts him or something? I don't know really.

[King Beyond The Wall]

In my book there are many reasons (if it is trully Mormont's idea)
a. Jon came willingly to the wall, unlike so many others who could become turncloaks for real in no time.
b. Jon was still a little green and this could be used in order to persuade the wildlings of him going to the other side.
c. Mance Raider would propably see a part of himself in a Stark-bastard-crow who turned over to the other side....or so I think.
d. I believe it was also the big test for Jon. Let's not forget that the old bear was looking for someone to replace him sooner or later, and he obviously had considered Jon as a candidate.

[TheDrawback]

King Beyond The Wall, on 29 February 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

In my book there are many reasons (if it is trully Mormont's idea)
a. Jon came willingly to the wall, unlike so many others who could become turncloaks for real in no time.
b. Jon was still a little green and this could be used in order to persuade the wildlings of him going to the other side.
c. Mance Raider would propably see a part of himself in a Stark-bastard-crow who turned over to the other side....or so I think.
Hmmmm i like these thoughts :)d. I believe it was also the big test for Jon. Let's not forget that the old bear was looking for someone to replace him sooner or later, and he obviously had considered Jon as a candidate.

Hmm i like these thoughts  

[ckal]

OP- you find out the importance of Jon's hidden treasure in ASOS.

[DirewolfQueen]

Maybe Mormont knows that there is something "special" about Jon that even Jon himself doesn't know. Some readers speculate about Jon's actual heritage...

[JimWolf]

I really doubt that Mormont was in on the Halfhand's plan.  I think he only came up with the plan once he realized that they would be overtaken.  There was no way for them to escape, so he came up with an idea of how to turn a negative ("we're all dead and no word will get back to the Watch") into a positive ("maybe one of us can stay alive and eventually bring a warning back to our Brothers").

Remember how he told Jon to "take care of" Ygritte.  He did not order him to kill her or release her.  He left it up to Jon so that he could learn who Jon is.  Jon made his own decision about what was right in that instance.  It showed Qhorin that Jon was capable of acting on his own.  If Jon had simply killed Ygritte without question then Qhorin may not have felt that Jon would be able to play the double agent.  All of this happened after they'd left Mormont.

[Cory]

If I recall correctly, maester luwin had told bran  that the children

[Cory]

Of the forest used dragon glass as weapons a thousand years ago, close the the time the others were walking about?

[Saxony]

I saw a big fat hint today in the chapter where Halfhand chooses Jon.  They were talking about how the leader of the wildlings (names are lost on me at this point) was looking for 'something' and suddenly the crow started screeching and that it "cut through the air like a knife".  In the very next sentence Halfhand says "we may have questioned him too sharply"......  I immediately thought of the dragonglass dagger Jon had just made.  It must contain magic.

Edited by Saxony, 22 July 2012 - 08:53 PM.