224 replies to this topic

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

I have just finished reading the series for the first time and assume im not the only one who strongly suspects Mellisandre's is mistaken with her belief Stannisis the second coming of her god. I currently thinking it is in fact Jon, (his obvious significance, destiny and dreams about carrying a red sword and general awesomeness etc) though for a while there thought it may be Dondarion with his resurrections, fiery sword and connection to a red priest. Also have pondered Daenaryes and Bran earlier on. Anyone have any thoughts on who it May turn out to be, if anyone?

Also does anyone else think Bran may end up with a dragon, or perhaps more  likely will warg into one?

[Daughter of Dragons]

I, too, believe it is most likely Jon. He seems to make the most sense here. Also, if I recall correctly,  

Spoiler

Melisandre is looking into the fires and asks to see Azor Ahai and is puzzled when she is shown Jon Snow's face.

  Seems a pretty good indicator to me.   As far as Bran is concerned, it is quite possible that he could warg into one of the dragons.   

Edited by Daughter of Dragons, 18 February 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[Frey Pie]

Jon,Jaime,Dany,Sam,Tyrion,Victarion,Arya,Davos,Brienne-take your pick.I believe theyve all been discussed somewhere around here.
The warging of dragons also has its own post.I think its highly possible.
As a quick synopsis from what i can remember from the when and what prophecies were fulfilled-
Dany born on Dragonstone-salt and smoke.Shes also cried enough-tears and salt.Dragons may be her lightbringer and the death of MMD Drogo and Rhaego the price payed.
Jaime-Salt from his steam bath woth Brienne in Storm i believe.Cersei may fulfill both the Nissa nissa and lion role-AA forged his sword through a lions heart and then his wives.
Brienne-same as above but she seems to love Jaime now so hed take Cerseis place above.
Davos-reborn at the battle of Blackwater i believe has been hypothesised-salt and smoke.Almost died but survived
Jon-salt in the tears of his men as they stabbed him.His wounds seemed to smoke.Wunwun was killing Patrek of King's Mountain who has a star as his sigil fulfilling more of the prophecy.
Welcome to the board.Theres an intimidating ammount of info here when you look around-way more then above
The wikis a good place to start http://awoiaf.wester...r_Ahai/Theories

Edited by Frey Pie, 18 February 2012 - 10:53 AM.

[Frey Pie]

Daughter of Dragons, on 18 February 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

I, too, believe it is most likely Jon. He seems to make the most sense here. Also, if I recall correctly,  

Spoiler

Melisandre is looking into the fires and asks to see Azor Ahai and is puzzled when she is shown Jon Snow's face.

  Seems a pretty good indicator to me.   As far as Bran is concerned, it is quite possible that he could warg into one of the dragons.   

Think its snow she sees but i could be wrong.In any case it does point to Jon and hed be my favourite too-song of ice and fire

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

Sorry if my musings have already been hashed out, always hard to know if you should start your first topic! I agree about there being so many possibilities as far as the prophecy is concerned, part of the joy of the series. Such strong characters. I am suffering big time withdrawls! Will have to re read with my detectives hat on.

[PatrickStormborn]

The evidence for Jon being AAR is quite weak, and could instead simply point to him being one of the three heads of the dragon.

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai will be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone."

"Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." - Maester Aemon, AFFC.

[protar]

Personally I couldn't choose who I wanted to be AA, so I decided that Bran, Jon and Daenerys made an AA trio, which fits in with "the dragon has three heads", the theory that Dany's dragons represent a three part Lightbringer, and the ice and fire stuff (bran is all ice, Dany all fire, Jon is ice and fire.). I made a thread about it in the ADWD forums called: The dragon has three heads, my Azhor Ahai theory.

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

Yeah that's actually a really good theory imo. I really hope Tyrion ends up helping Dany train the dragons, i think his having read and studied so much about them could hint at that.

[Sevumar]

I'm not sure that we'll ever see an Azor Ahai figure positively identified in the story. It looks like it could go in the direction of competing claims by different groups of Red Priests, or others who know the mythology, and Martin might not call out any individual as the definitive return of AA. On some level, I hope the prophecy turns out to be something more than just motivation for the actions of a subset of characters.

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

It seems Dany is Azor reborn.  Jon could definitely be one of the three dragon heads, though, and Bran would seem destined to warg a dragon!  They keep saying he would "fly" and I wonder of part of that meaning is about a flying dragon.  His physical body may die and he might live the rest of his "life" as a dragon??

[Fire Eater]

Frey Pie, on 18 February 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

Think its snow she sees but i could be wrong.In any case it does point to Jon and hed be my favourite too-song of ice and fire

She thinks I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai and R'hollorshows me only Snow. She thinks Snow with a capital "S" meaning it's someone's name.

I think Jon Snow is Azor Ahai or the PtwP, he is born of ice(Lyanna Stark) and fire(Rhaegar Targaryen). Then there's the business of the red star( Ser Patrek, a follower of red R'hollor) bleeding and smoke(steam from wound) and salt(Marsh's tears). You also have to include the dream of where he was defending the Wall with his sword burning red in his hand(Lightbringer).

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

woa woa back up a sec , Jon is not Ned's son but nephew? Did i miss some massive revelation!?

[Fire Eater]

Blood.of.my.Blood, on 18 February 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

woa woa back up a sec , Jon is not Ned's son but nephew? Did i miss some massive revelation!?

follow this link

[Lykos]

@Blood.of.my.Blood
Welcome to the board.  I always wondered when a Mononoke avatar wil show, very nice and have fun.  Endless wonders await you here.

[Apple Martini]

The early, flashy evidence does seem to point to Daenerys. But I think in the end it won't be her, and that she's kind of a red herring. I think the prophecy will unfold more mundanely and doesn't necessarily require a major godlike event.

As a rule of thumb, I immediately write off anyone in the story who has other people within the story saying that they're a/the savior. So that's no to Stannis (Melisandre saying it's him), no to Aegon (Rhaegar said it was him in Dany's vision) and no to Dany (Aemon and the red priests think it's her). Reason being, whoever it is, I believe Martin will leave things ambiguous enough and let readers figure it out on their own, rather than beating them upside the head with it by having other characters literally spell it out before it's necessary. I just don't think he operates that way.

I actually did think it was probably Dany until Aemon told Sam it was her. Then I figured, "Why would Martin just give away the solution to the central prophecy?" It wasn't as if readers couldn't have deduced on their own that Dany had done stuff that seemed to fit — so why force the issue? You force the issue if you're really trying to push readers in one direction when you're really going off in another direction. I discounted her and moved on. Like I said, I think the unsubtle events surrounding Dany are meant as a distraction to draw attention away from the real deal.

I also believe that the Night's Watch is Lightbringer and that it is not a sword. In my interpretation — and it's one that many people on here also share — Azor Ahai wielding Lightbringer is another way of saying the guy who commands the Night's Watch.

Edited by Apple Martini, 18 February 2012 - 02:35 PM.

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

Wow, great read. . And an awesome theory too. . Makes a lot of sense. I always wondered about Lyanna's story due to the obvious tragedy and significance\guilt it held for Ned.

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

Lykos, on 18 February 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

@Blood.of.my.Blood
Welcome to the board.  I always wondered when a Mononoke avatar wil show, very nice and have fun.  Endless wonders await you here.

Haha thanks, i am a big Ghibli fan and liked the similarities. Mononoke is like a little hybrid of Arya and Dany

[Blue Rose Direwolf]

Isn't it obvious? Azor Ahai is Littlefinger, of course.

Seriously, I'd love to think it's Jon and hope it is but I think there's also something more subtle going on here. GRRM has a bit of a motif going through the series about how prophesies are inaccurate or incomplete or subject to misinterpretation.

For most of AGoT we thought that Dany and Drogo's son was going to be the stallion who mounted the world. But he died and that prophesy hit the fan.

The red star bled and every single person in Westeros, Essos, and beyond, thought that their time had come. Has anything come of that? Is the red star still in the sky even?

Then we found out about Rheagar's son Aegon who Rheagar thought was the prince who was promised. Then Aegon was killed (supposedly) and that prophesy hit the fan.

My point is that maybe we shouldn't trust in any prophesies. They're vague, unpredictable (ironically), and can be made null and void by a simple twist of fate.

Besides, the Red Woman is crazy.

[Apple Martini]

Someone over on the Winds of Winter board pointed out the similarities between Azor Ahai/TPTWP and the "Once and Future King" motif in Arthurian legend. Arthur is supposed to come again, but he never does.

ETA: Martin also has a thing for shifting characters and having them subvert the perceptions we have of them. We think of Sandor as a murdering bully, only to learn that he's pretty complex and has a good sense of the hypocrisy going on. Jaime started as a self-important, child-assaulting, treason-committing jerk, and has gradually come down the road to personal redemption and regret. Tyrion started out as the everyman and kind of the voice of reason, and has gradually turned into a much darker character with very questionable motives and morals. Stannis started as a hardass, and he's still a hardass, but we've seen that he can be compromised with and takes his oaths seriously. Theon was a strutting peacock who's now reduced to a broken shell of his former self. Sansa was a naive little girl who's now learning to play politics. Even Cersei started out at the pinnacle of power only to be forced to walk naked in the street.

My point is, the story is littered with characters whom we believed thought and behaved one way, only for those expectations to be shifted. Dany has always been sold as a good-intentioned person, firmly in the "good" camp, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if she ends up being another character to go against our idea of her and how she'll behave and what she'll do.

Edited by Apple Martini, 18 February 2012 - 03:29 PM.

[Ashkan Stark]

I think Apple Martini is right. none of Dany,Stannis and Aegon aren't AA. I think Jon is the strongest choice and Bran is the second choice. In another way,AA can be a group of people who fight with the Others and etc.

P.S:why you people think Jaime has been reached to the salvation?? Just because he killed Mad King to save KL?? is this enough? I don't think so. Trying to kill an inosent child and fucking your sister are not things that someone could be clean from easily