224 replies to this topic

[Ashkan Stark]

Any thoughts on Davos being AA???

[Summerqueen]

IF there really is an AA, I do think it will be Jon.
Either the NW is Lightbringer, or another Lightbringer will be made from Long Claw (I'd be fine if Mel was new NissaNissa). He could possibly wake dragons from beneath Winterfell or the Wall. I am a fan of the fantasy genre as well as a fan of ASOIAF, and i don't mind special girl/boy tales, so I don't have the Jon hate lots of Martin fans have.In the end, the possibility of a real AA may well come down to how much he wants to deconstruct the genre.

Davos is a good guy, but I'm too "meh" about him to invest time imagining him in an exalted role. I save my thinking for characters I care about. Sorry, Ashkan, wish I had more to offer.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Ashkan Stark, on 25 February 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Any thoughts on Davos being AA???

He meets the criteria as well as any other candidate. And I love him. So this makes him my favorite AA option.

[Dracarya]

Ashkan Stark, on 25 February 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Any thoughts on Davos being AA???

The quote someone here wrote about AA made me think about Davos. The red star was bleeding during the Battle of Blackwater, the Long Night is coming, Davos was stranded on a rock amidst smoke (from the fires) and salt (seawater). He wasn't technically "reborn" but he seemed to have a new purpose when he was saved. I think he has a good chance of being AA. I never thought about it before, actually. But he stops Mel from sacrificing Edric Storm to "wake the stone dragon". I can't think of anything about that, except him being "good friends" with a gargoyle xD

"

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai will be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone."

[King Bronn l]

I think it's Davos. And it's because of his wife. Remember Saans(sp?) story about how AA tempered the sword? And how Davos wanted no parts of it. (Azor Ahai reborn.)

Edited by King Bronn l, 25 February 2012 - 05:59 PM.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Fire&Blood, on 25 February 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

The quote someone here wrote about AA made me think about Davos. The red star was bleeding during the Battle of Blackwater, the Long Night is coming, Davos was stranded on a rock amidst smoke (from the fires) and salt (seawater). He wasn't technically "reborn" but he seemed to have a new purpose when he was saved. I think he has a good chance of being AA. I never thought about it before, actually. But he stops Mel from sacrificing Edric Storm to "wake the stone dragon". I can't think of anything about that, except him being "good friends" with a gargoyle xD

"

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai will be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone."

His escape from death on the Blackwater is almost inexplicable, so perhaps it was a literal rebirth. But even assuming it was just dumb luck, a metaphorical rebirth will count. Davos loses his finger bones (also somewhat inexplicably given that they were tied around his neck), which, to me, is a symbolic rebirth.

As for waking a dragon from stone, as people have pointed out this could be highly metaphorical and who knows what it is exactly. I think it is interesting, and possibly telling, that Davos is currently on his way to Skagos, whose name means 'stone' in the Old Tongue.

I also think Davos being AA would be so much better than having it be someone of Targaryen magic blood. Because I don't much like that idea.

Edited by OnionAhaiReborn, 25 February 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[Apple Martini]

I still think it's Jon but if it is Davos I will have a big dumb grin on my face. And the evidence for him is just as plausible as it is for the other candidates. I think the prophecy will be marked by "mundane" fulfillments. It won't be flashy "act-of-god" stuff.

[Dracarya]

OnionAhaiReborn, on 25 February 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

His escape from death on the Blackwater is almost inexplicable, but even assuming it was just dumb luck, a metaphorical rebirth will count. Davos loses his finger bones (also somewhat inexplicably given that they were tied around his neck), which, to me, is a symbolic rebirth.

As for waking a dragon from stone, as people have pointed out this could be highly metaphorical and who knows what it is exactly. I think it is interesting, and possibly telling, that Davos is currently on his way to Skagos, whose name means 'stone' in the Old Tongue.

I also think Davos being AA would be so much better than having it be someone of Targaryen magic blood. Because I don't much like that idea.

I'm warming to this theory! I was blind-sighted by it being either Dany or Jon, but Davos is a real contender here! A metaphorical stone dragon? Interesting about Skagos meaning 'stone'. I must do some more research on this!
I guess him becoming Hand of the King would also count towards the 'rebirth' thing, and he comments on his very quick rise a few times in one of his ASOS chapters, just after he's released from the dungeons and made Hand. He was born into Flea Bottom was it? and after nearly dying on a rock, was given the title of Hand of the King.

Count me in, I'm a fan! I always wondered why the hell the Onion Knight was a POV, and on the first time round he irritated me, but I very much like this idea. What is Lightbringer then? Is it Stannis' sword? How will Davos get it? Will he have to do the whole Nissa-Nissa thing? I must confess I'm a little muddled up with this prophecy.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Fire&Blood, on 25 February 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

Count me in, I'm a fan! I always wondered why the hell the Onion Knight was a POV, and on the first time round he irritated me, but I very much like this idea. What is Lightbringer then? Is it Stannis' sword? How will Davos get it? Will he have to do the whole Nissa-Nissa thing? I must confess I'm a little muddled up with this prophecy.

The prophecy itself is woefully muddled, we really have only a very limited knowledge of it. And the person we hear talking about it the most, Melisandre, appears to have gotten it all wrong, so we just don't know. I gotta say though, I'm a little upset that you didn't like Davos at first, I'm glad you've seen the glory of the Onion Knight now, though.  

[Dracarya]

OnionAhaiReborn, on 25 February 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

The prophecy itself is woefully muddled, we really have only a very limited knowledge of it. And the person we hear talking about it the most, Melisandre, appears to have gotten it all wrong, so we just don't know. I gotta say though, I'm a little upset that you didn't like Davos at first, I'm glad you've seen the glory of the Onion Knight now, though.  

I just didn't see his purpose, but I did rush through the first read in order to get to the next bit. I have seen the light! I'm rereading much slower now, and enjoying his chapters a lot. Especially now that he could be AA, I shall pay very close attention to him!

For arguments sake, how do the others fit the prophecy? I know Maester Aemon said it was Dany, but that could have been (yet another bloody) red herring. Davos really seems to fit the prophecy. Jon, the red star had gone by the time that awful incident happened, am I right? And how was Dany 'reborn' while the red star was there? Gahh, must do research! I think I pay more attention to these theories than my university work

[OnionAhaiReborn]

This basically covers it:
http://towerofthehan...hai_reborn.html

Edit:
Ok now that I skim this again I realize that it doesn't really cover it at all. But sadly I have to go right now but I'm sure there are lots of people who can lay out the cases for all the AA options.

Edited by OnionAhaiReborn, 25 February 2012 - 06:26 PM.

[Dracarya]

OnionAhaiReborn, on 25 February 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

This basically covers it:
http://towerofthehan...hai_reborn.html

Edit:
Ok now that I skim this again I realize that it doesn't really cover it at all. But sadly I have to go right now but I'm sure there are lots of people who can lay out the cases for all the AA options.

No worries, it'll give me an overview and I look forward to discussing it more thoroughly! Thanks for the link - I've run out of my "liking quota" for the day x)

[Eyron I]

Fire&Blood,

Dany walked into the pyre, and came out alive. Some will call that her rebirth, and it happened when the red star was bleeding.

[Dracarya]

Eira, on 25 February 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

Fire&Blood,

Dany walked into the pyre, and came out alive. Some will call that her rebirth, and it happened when the red star was bleeding.

Ah yes, smoke.. salt? I thought the red star come after that, but it's highly likely I'm wrong And she woke the 'stone' dragon eggs. Yeah I can see how she fulfills the prophecy too. I guess salt could come from tears, maybe that she shed herself or MMD, or some members of her khalasar when she walked into the fire. Tbh I always thought it was going to be either her or Jon, but the thing about Davos got me thinking.

ETA: Just read that Tower of the Hand essay - wow. So much I missed! I think the most likely candidates are now Bran, Davos and Dany. I love how some people picked up on Bran being 'reborn' out of the sea, aka the Ironmen, smoke from Winterfell burning, and that Summer sees a 'dragon' outside Winterfell. The idea that there's a stone dragon beneath Winterfell is also interesting - it could be that it was Bran, though I'd have to read up some more on that. But again with Bran, the red star had gone by then right? Gah, nobody fits the prophecy perfectly, which I know is most likely on purpose but come on, Martin! xD

Who are the most likely candidates for others? I never paid much attention to AA before, more fool me.

Edited by Fire&Blood, 25 February 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[Eyron I]

I'm a bit torn on the matter, Dany does fit very very well, but as Apple Martini says, she fits too well. So I'm leaning towards her being the Prince [dragon] that was Promised or the AAR, since we don't know if they are the same, but that her destiny is not exactly what the prophecy has told us. I certainly don't think the Fire Champion of the red lot will save the world from the Others. I think the world will need saving from the R'hllor priests and dragons as much as it needs saving from the Others.

A part in Jon's dream about him armored in black ice, with the fiery sword, was that he was slaying wights that was climbing up from one side of the Wall, but from the other side burning shafts came hissing up. Towards him that is. That I think symbolises war on two fronts, against fire and ice both, and he stands in between the two.

Also in the dream; he cut down Robb, and screamed I am the lord of Winterfell. And he threw down Ygritte and other friends, until a gnarled hand lay on his shoulder and he woke up from Mormont's raven bothering him. I think this could symbolise him raising to power from Robb's death and having to cut himself free from past allegiances, and being a bastard (at least he thinks he is) with a foot in two camps, the Starks and the Targaryens, but not truly being a part of either house. But it could be something else of course. The gnarled hand is probably another First Men+Targaryen bastard, that is probably skinchanging that raven that woke him up, and that is Bloodraven. Who was also Lord Commander so he would know what position Jon is in.
I have long thought that Jon must be the PtwP, or the AA but I'm not sure. I wouldn't like it if he becomes R'hllors champion, but then again AAR may have another agenda than what the red priests think.

[Eyron I]

Fire&Blood, on 25 February 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

ETA: Just read that Tower of the Hand essay - wow. So much I missed! I think the most likely candidates are now Bran, Davos and Dany. I love how some people picked up on Bran being 'reborn' out of the sea, aka the Ironmen, smoke from Winterfell burning, and that Summer sees a 'dragon' outside Winterfell. The idea that there's a stone dragon beneath Winterfell is also interesting - it could be that it was Bran, though I'd have to read up some more on that. But again with Bran, the red star had gone by then right? Gah, nobody fits the prophecy perfectly, which I know is most likely on purpose but come on, Martin! xD

I like this one about Bran too, it feels more subtle and not shoved in our faces like Dany's hatching.

One more interesting thing about Bran is that he seems to follow in the footsteps of the Last Hero, who went to search for the Children during the long night, hunted by the Others. So if the original Azor Ahai was the Last Hero (who is assumed to have gotten the Children's help in defeating the Others) Bran fits quite well also.

There may be three AAR's if the PtwP is the same, and the dragons three heads means three people. We still have too many candidates thought

[Dracarya]

Good catch on his dream. The fact that when Mel looks for AA in her fires she sees snow I guess could point to him being AA, or it could be a red herring. Dany does fit it more so than others, but I was sure the red star only turned up in ACOK - I know there wasn't a huge time gap between the two books, but if the red star had been bleeding over her as she emerged from the pyre, I'd be more convinced.

Wasn't there a part in the House of the Undying where Dany sees Rhaegar, Elia and Aegon, and Rhaegar says that Aegon has a song, "the song of ice and fire, and he is the prince that was promised"? Now I wonder whether it was Jon Dany was seeing - Rhaegar would probably be easily distinguishable, but she'd never seen Elia nor Aegon. That just depends on a) whether R+L does = J, and if so, b ) where Rhaegar was at the time of Lyanna giving birth. This would make Jon the prince that was promised, and take him out of the running for AA (I personally don't think they're the same person).

That's a good point about Bran - he never even came up as a candidate before I read that article. I think he will play a part in the war that will inevitably come against the Others, but whether that includes being one head of the dragon or AA, I don't know. The "three heads has the dragon" thing threw me as well - I really need to start taking more notice of prophecies! - do they have to be Targaryens? If Aegon is the real Aegon, and Jon is R+L, there we have our three Targs. But I get the feeling that Aegon being for real isn't very popular, and the mummers dragon thing rings true for him.

Perhaps crackpottery, but I'll give it a go - what if Jon dies, but comes back like Cat, so he is 'stone-heart'? Then Davos comes back to the wall and wakes him with.. something (I say Davos because I assume he's expected to go back there?). If Jon is a Targ, then that would mean Davos has awakened a stone dragon, in essence. But Jon is probably too important to just be a stone dragon.. This literally just popped into my head so it's not well thought out at all

Edited by Fire&Blood, 25 February 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[Apple Martini]

Fire&Blood, on 25 February 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Wasn't there a part in the House of the Undying where Dany sees Rhaegar, Elia and Aegon, and Rhaegar says that Aegon has a song, "the song of ice and fire, and he is the prince that was promised"? Now I wonder whether it was Jon Dany was seeing - Rhaegar would probably be easily distinguishable, but she'd never seen Elia nor Aegon. That just depends on a) whether R+L does = J, and if so, b ) where Rhaegar was at the time of Lyanna giving birth. This would make Jon the prince that was promised, and take him out of the running for AA (I personally don't think they're the same person).

It was definitely Aegon and Elia. I think it was a case of "something that never was." Aegon being TPTWP, I mean, not the scene itself.

Edited by Apple Martini, 25 February 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[Dracarya]

Apple Martini, on 25 February 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

It was definitely Aegon and Elia. I think it was a case of "something that never was." Aegon being TPTWP, I mean, not the scene itself.

Ah okay, so what she saw wasn't real? That would make sense too, thanks

[therustman]

Mel refers to AA as being the prince or prince that was promised a few times.

Edit : Suggesting they are the same person - helps if I make my point right!

Edited by therustman, 25 February 2012 - 07:44 PM.