7V3N Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 The Blackfyre Rebellion was stemmed from King Aegon IV ("The Unworthy")'s bastard son Daemon Blackfyre, whose mother was Princess Daena Targaryen. Daemon was considered to fight like "the Warrior himself" when wielding Blackfyre--one of the ancestral Valyrian steel blades of House Targaryen, the one wielded by Aegon the Conqueror. King Aegon the Unworthy legitimized all of his bastards on his deathbed.When Daemon's love, Princess Daenerys (who loved him as well), was wedded to Prince Maron Martell, Daemon rose in rebellion and claimed the throne as Aegon IV's true heir. He immediately received much support, as others had been urging him to rebel since his father's death.The terms red and black dragon are from the sigil of House Targaryen, a red dragon on black. Daemon Blackfyre inverted the coat of arms, like many bastards do, to display a black dragon on red.Those for the black dragon, the supporters of Daemon Blackfyre, claimed his father Aegon saw his worth and passed down the sword Blackfyre to Daemon to show that he wished Daemon to succeed him. Daemon led his army along with his half-brother Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers and Quentyn "Fireball" Ball.Those for the red dragon, the Targaryen loyalists, supported Aegon IV's trueborn son Daeron II Targaryen. His mother was Aegon IV's wife, Naerys Targaryen. This side was commanded largely by Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers, Baelor "Breakspear" Targaryen, and Maekar Targaryen.Honorable men fought on both sides. Each claim seemed justified.I am aware that similar threads have been made, but I find them too relaxed. I don't want this to be about who is more "badass," I want it to be about who you would seriously raise your banners for and why.So, who would you side with? Does the sword contain the Kingdom? Does blood matter less than worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverBallin Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Whoever was next in line of Succession. Both Blackfyre and Daeron were legit so whoever was born first.But I prefer Bloodraven to Bittersteel if that counts for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 If we're arguing legitimacy through birth order, then Daeron II has it.If we're arguing skill, then Daemon Blackfyre. Some people, understandably, prefer a king, especially in that sort of society, with more martial prowess and not so much education or book learnin'. Daeron II is clearly liked and remembered well, but I can see how some lords would want someone with more military expertise. Finally, if we're arguing "blood of the dragon," then the Blackfyres actually have the advantage, weird as it is to think so. Aegon IV is the father for both, so that cancels out. They each have two Targaryen mothers, but Daena Targaryen has Valyrian blood on both sides (Aegon III and a House Velaryon lady) while Naerys only has it on one side (Viserys II; her mother is unknown but probably not a Targ or otherwise Valyrian). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverBallin Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 If we're arguing legitimacy through birth order, then Daeron II has it.If we're arguing skill, then Daemon Blackfyre. Some people, understandably, prefer a king, especially in that sort of society, with more martial prowess and not so much education or book learnin'. Daeron II is clearly liked and remembered well, but I can see how some lords would want someone with more military expertise.Finally, if we're arguing "blood of the dragon," then the Blackfyres actually have the advantage, weird as it is to think so. Aegon IV is the father for both, so that cancels out. They each have two Targaryen mothers, but Daena Targaryen has Valyrian blood on both sides (Aegon III and a House Velaryon lady) while Naerys only has it on one side (Viserys II; her mother is unknown but probably not a Targ or otherwise Valyrian).But Daemon was legitimized, so the birth factor depends on who's older only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 So many variables come to play. I don't mean for this to become "Who is in the right?" That would probably be endless and pointless. I want it to be about who you personally would go with and for what reasons. Put yourself in the shoes of a lord of knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetRobin4Life Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'd go for Blackfyre. While Bloodraven is a dangerous enemy I'd feel much more confidant that the side with Daemon, Bittersteel, and Fireball would be the one that wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'd go for Blackfyre I think. The sword is definitely of some significance. It may not be the Kingdom, but it is the sword of Aegon the Conqueror, the sword of every past Targaryen king. Also, it seems that Daemon was loved by all, a good man and an excellent warrior. But I just can't get past the sword thing. Why give the sword of the kings to a man who you did not wish to be king? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 But Daemon was legitimized, so the birth factor depends on who's older only.Not necessarily. At least one source I've seen suggests that legitimized bastards come after all other heirs, even girls. In any case, Daeron II is older so it's a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaena Targaryen Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Since Aegon the Unworthy was supposed to be a real sob I would probably do the opposite of what he wanted, and supposedly most thought he wanted Daemon because he gave him Balckfyre so I'd go with Daeron ll and that's a good thing considering one should not mess with Lord Bloodraven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dayne Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I would be for Daemon Blackfyre. Follow the man, not the title. It was said that he was a born leader and his hal-brother king was just a reader who let Bloodraven do everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I would be for Daemon Blackfyre. Follow the man, not the title. It was said that he was a born leader and his hal-brother king was just a reader who let Bloodraven do everything.You're thinking of Aerys I. Bloodraven was a battle commander for Daeron II but he didn't become Hand and start running stuff until Aerys I took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Daeron seems like he'd be the better administrator, but it seems like he withdrew too much from the running of the realm, leaving the task of ruling largely in the hands of his Hands. I'm all for scholar kings, but I wonder if the Seven Kingdoms wouldn't have been better served by a more "active"-seeming monarch, especially after the bitter division and warfare of the Blackfyre Rebellion. For a smart man, it seems like he didn't fully grasp how much some of his actions alienated his subjects, and I wish we knew more about whether or not he made any effort to help those uneasy with Dornish influence to understand his actions.Like Martini mentioned, Daemon seemed the more traditional embodiment of the Targaryen warrior image. His charisma and martial abilities might have made him more widely acceptable as a king, but we don't have any indication of what quality of monarch he'd have been. I'm curious about how Weserosi history would have been different if the Blackfyre branch of the house had managed to take the Iron Throne. Sometimes, I find myself wishing they'd won, but that's based more on my curiosity than any good reason for wanting a Blackfyre monarchy. After Aegon V, the Targaryen line seems to have degenerated very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire and Blood25 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 That's a really dangerous question...I've asked my self a couple of times, and I can't find an asnwer. Bloodraven on one side, the Warrior Himself on the oder, Quentyn Ball and Bittersteel, v.s. Maekar and Baelor, a king beloved but bastard and illegitimate, v.s. a legitimate but maybe bastard, unworthy, swordless, cooless king. It would depend of my geographic position, of my status and of so many things. The Black Dragon is the coolest, the Red Dragon is the Rightfull. I'll make a choice and then I'll post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 It would have been a great time for all of the kingdoms to say the hell with all of you inbreeders. You have no more dragons to burn our armies and our cities. Go F yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 But Daemon was legitimized, so the birth factor depends on who's older only.Daeron was older than Daemon.Daemon was great warrior and very charismatic but so was another king, Robert, whom Barristan said was a good knight but a bad king.It takes more than a warrior to be king, both Maegor the Cruel and Aegon the Unworthy proved that. They were warrior men and both made terrible kings; compare them to their non-warrior, scholarly successors, Jaehaerys I and Daeron II. Jaehaerys I ended the war between the Iron Throne and Faith, and gave the realm fifty-five years of peace and prosperity. Daeron II succeeded where his warrior predecessors failed, and that's bringing Dorne under the rule of the Iron Throne. Daeron also gave the realm peace and plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in the South Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well we "technically" don't know 100% if Daeron was even Aegon's son to begin with so...Fuck it. Bittersteel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bloodraven by far. gogo blackfyres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summerqueen Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 A conqueror's kingdom goes with his sword. Birthright is a hypocritical stance to take for anyone who won a kingdom in war. IMO. But that's not the question. :)Blackfyre for me If I were only a knight. However, if I were a lord and not a knight, I'd take the part of the prince with birthright. My own lordship depends on that custom/rule. Otherwise, I'd be opening the door to my father's bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Know Face Man Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I Fight for the BlackKing Aegon VI believed Daeron II was not his son but the product of an illegitimate union between his brother Prince Aemon the Dragonknight and Queen Naerys Targaryen. Making Daeron a Bastard.Daemon Blackfyre was a Bastard but is not anymore. His father gave him the sword knowing that all the Targaryen Kings of Westeros have carried it. Meaning he clearly ment for Daemon the be King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 King Aegon VI believed Daeron II was not his son but the product of an illegitimate union between his brother Prince Aemon the Dragonknight and Queen Naerys Targaryen. Making Daeron a Bastard.There's nothing to this, officially. Aegon IV, whatever his feelings or others' feelings, never LEGALLY disinherited Daeron or declared him to be a bastard. Daemon Blackfyre was a Bastard but is not anymore. His father gave him the sword knowing that all the Targaryen Kings of Westeros have carried it. Meaning he clearly ment for Daemon the be King.He legitimized him in his will but he did not explicitly say that he meant for Daemon to be king. The idea that giving Daemon the sword meant that he was meant to be king was something the Blackfyre loyalists came up with on their own to justify Daemon's rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalais Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I honestly think I'd pull a Lysa and hold myself apart from the conflict, keep my bannermen and forces out of the war, and then when the last blade falls use my conserved strength to help the winner and at the sametime help myself to some prime real estate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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