96 replies to this topic

[Horza]

True

Osha is Tormund's sister
The black tom is Balerion
Renly and Loras were an item

[Solaris]

Apple Martini, on 21 February 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

Oh sorry. Yeah I fat-fingered it, my mistake.

I think fake!Aegon will be another truth that never really comes out, but we can deduce it thematically (the black dragon that washed back ashore red) and with other clues.

Are you telling me that Ageon is the secret brother of Balon Greyjoy? ........................................... Would you like a drink? Wine? Scotch? Coke?

[Apple Martini]

Horza, on 21 February 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

Osha is Tormund's sister

Can you explain this one? I missed it, I confess. If it's true, good on you for catching it.

Quote

The black tom is Balerion
Renly and Loras were an item

YES. This kind of stuff.

[Lady Blackfyre]

Another outright lie we're told (multiple times) in the beginning of the series is that the children of the forest are all dead. Even though it's not fully believable, I think, since usually the same people also say the Others are gone as well, and we already know (by the Prologue) that's not true.

[Dracarya]

Does the fact that, for a while, we're led to believe that the wildlings are the enemies of the NW count as a blatant lie?

[Horza]

Apple Martini, on 21 February 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Can you explain this one? I missed it, I confess. If it's true, good on you for catching it.

It's a bit sketchy but Osha mentions a brother of hers killed a giant, and while there might be other wildings who have done it...

[Apple Martini]

LadyBlackfyre, on 21 February 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Another outright lie we're told (multiple times) in the beginning of the series is that the children of the forest are all dead. Even though it's not fully believable, I think, since usually the same people also say the Others are gone as well, and we already know (by the Prologue) that's not true.

Good one. To use this as an example of what I'm trying to convey, this is an outright lie that is proved wrong in the story, yes.

But ... and this is the point I'm trying to make, the truth, when we first learn it (and with the Others, it's in the first prologue) is revealed through actual plot and action. No stands up and says, "The Others are still alive!" We learn it ourselves when one kills the Night's Watch rangers. With the Children of the Forest, we realize it for certain when Bran encounters them.

Edited by Apple Martini, 21 February 2012 - 10:43 AM.

[Apple Martini]

Another example, since people (rather, a person) have made the point about stuff eventually being confirmed or denied as an excuse for why this thread is pointless.

We are told that Davos Seaworth has been executed. This is a lie.

Do we eventually learn that Davos is alive? Yes. Are we told outright that Manderly didn't execute Davos? No, we learn it through the plot development. No one runs breathlessly to King's Landing and says, "Guess what, Manderly didn't really execute Davos!"

Going on this hypothesis:

If Loras Tyrell is alive and well, we'll learn it when someone goes to Dragonstone and finds him there in good health. No one will say outright, "Loras is in good health." The lie is, "Loras is gravely injured on Dragonstone."

If Stannis is still alive and the letter was a lie, we'll learn it ourselves when we see Stannis win the battle or see someone encounter him alive after. I don't think we'll get another letter saying outright, "Stannis is alive."

If Skagos' reputation is overblown, Davos will go and will discover it for himself (and we in turn will discover it for ourselves). No one will say outright, "Skagos isn't that bad," whereas they did say, "Skagos is known for cannibals."

If the Green Grace is the Harpy, someone will catch her in the act or in a lie to prove it. No one is going to run up to Barristan or Dany and say, "The Green Grace is the Harpy!"

Edited by Apple Martini, 21 February 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[A Free Shadow]

Lie: Littlefinger is in the Vale wooing Lysa

Trues: Sansa has been found - by Mad Mouse
            The Sailor's wife is very likely Tysha

[Faceless Cat]

Truth: It was Varys and Illyrio meeting secretly and being overheard by Arya.

[Winter's Lady]

Hmm I'm not entirely sure about this one, my memory might be a bit flunky, but I don't remember it being said outright, just bits here and there:

Sneaky truth:  The Three Eyed Crow is Bloodraven aka Brynden Rivers

[redriver]

Lie -Hardhome was a natural disaster

True-It was caused by the Valyrians.

[Rose of Winterfell]

Osha knows (at least some of) what happened to Benjen

[Lord Martin]

Aeron was molested by Euron as a child (never stated but more likely true than not).

Evidence:

Damphair's first chapter, "it was better to be hated by Balon than loved by Euron."  Then there is rusty hinge, the sentiment of feeling emasculated and powerless and it all comes up whenever Euron is around.  But it has yet to be confirmed.

Similarly, there is a line in Jaime's chapter in AFFC when he is speaking with King Tomen about "going away inside" and Tomen says "I used to go away inside when Joffrey... when he.. he.."  and then they get interrupted.  We never find out what Joff used to do to Tomen.  Another instance of sex abuse?  Why else would he "go away inside?"

[sky333]

GRRM has a tricksy twisted mind, but that's what makes for such great literature.  Really, ASoIaF is rapidly outpacing even my childhood favorite fantasy, LotR, although it still can't hold a candle to Hitchhiker's Guide.

Not bad for a girl in her jimjams.  How very Arthur Dent of me!

One thing I don't understand - the black tom, a cat, is somehow supposed to be Balerion, a dragon?  Someone please explain!

[Winter's Lady]

sky333, on 22 February 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

GRRM has a tricksy twisted mind, but that's what makes for such great literature.  Really, ASoIaF is rapidly outpacing even my childhood favorite fantasy, LotR, although it still can't hold a candle to Hitchhiker's Guide.

Not bad for a girl in her jimjams.  How very Arthur Dent of me!

One thing I don't understand - the black tom, a cat, is somehow supposed to be Balerion, a dragon?  Someone please explain!

Hihi not Balerion the dragon, Balerion the cat. He was...errr Rhaenys' cat iirc?

[Apple Martini]

Lady of Oldcastle, on 22 February 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

Hmm I'm not entirely sure about this one, my memory might be a bit flunky, but I don't remember it being said outright, just bits here and there:

Sneaky truth:  The Three Eyed Crow is Bloodraven aka Brynden Rivers

YES.

Funny story about this: When my dad finished ADWD, I asked him what he thought of Bloodraven being the 3EC. He had no idea what I was talking about (Bloodraven is mentioned in the stories but never really described, if I remember correctly) and then I remembered that Bloodraven is never positively identified as being the 3EC. We infer it based on his name, appearance and general character description. But he never says, "Hi, I'm Bloodraven!"

[Winter's Lady]

I think it was much easier to identify him for people who have also read the D&E stories, because he has a somewhat big role in "The Mystery Knight"

[sky333]

Gotcha, thanks Lady.

[Grail King]

Horza, on 21 February 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

It's a bit sketchy but Osha mentions a brother of hers killed a giant, and while there might be other wildings who have done it...

Well maybe, but the wiki's on both don't state either have siblings, and Giant's bane is stated to have 3 sons and a daughter no sisters or brothers.

The next question would be why head to Skagos if it's known Bengen and Jon are at the wall where the boys could be better protected?