96 replies to this topic

[Dr. Pepper]

Err, I don't like what your (very astute) observation means for Quentyn.  There are no subtle hints that he died, it's stated outright that he's dead as a doornail.  If it follows GRRM's pattern, then Quentyn would only be as dead as Davos after his head and hands were mounted on a spike.  I don't like that idea at all.

[theguyfromtheVale]

Another one might fall into this category, although we'll have to see how that situation pans out:

We're told outright by Doran Martell that Myrcella has survived Darkstar's attack. We haven't seen her since, though, and there's reason to believe she was switched (Doran's tale of Daenerys in the Water Gardens).

[Teal'c]

Grail King, on 22 February 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Well maybe, but the wiki's on both don't state either have siblings, and Giant's bane is stated to have 3 sons and a daughter no sisters or brothers.

The next question would be why head to Skagos if it's known Bengen and Jon are at the wall where the boys could be better protected?

As Luwin suggested, it is prudent to keep Bran and Rickon separated, to decrease the chance that both are captured. Bran is going towards the Wall, so Osha must take Rickon elsewhere.

[Bride of Winter]

interesting thread

what would we call the AA prophecy? - it's pretty outright stated, but it's likely not false.

my bets are on the "lie" being that it's one specific person (like you said, now Stannis can't be AA. Whoever actually turns out to be AA, we'll probably discover it as it happens)

Also there's Cersei being absolutely convinced that Margaery is the queen in Maggy the Frog's prophecy. Obviously it's Sansa, it is known.

[Independent George]

Sneaky Truth: I think Marillon faked being blinded and maimed - we don't know for certain, but the way Sansa focused on his bandaged eyes and gloved hands, plus his sudden disappearance from the sky cells, implies that Littlefinger spared him in exchange for his confession. Of course, he probably also had his throat cut by Lothor Brune shortly thereafter, but that's a whole other story.

Outright lie: Dany constantly mentions how she and Viserys roamed from one Free City to the next fleeing Robert's hired knives. I'm pretty sure this was all in Viserys' head. Renly says outright that Jon Arryn never allowed attempts on her life, and Barristan never mentions any previous attempts. I'm pretty sure the wine merchant was the first.

[Apple Martini]

Dr. Pepper, on 14 April 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

Err, I don't like what your (very astute) observation means for Quentyn.  There are no subtle hints that he died, it's stated outright that he's dead as a doornail.  If it follows GRRM's pattern, then Quentyn would only be as dead as Davos after his head and hands were mounted on a spike.  I don't like that idea at all.

Except that we have a POV who actually sees Quentyn die and observes his dead body. So it doesn't fit the pattern the way Davos' "death" does. That pattern would be, someone in King's Landing receives a raven saying Quentyn's dead without anyone actually seeing the body.

Bride of Winter, on 14 April 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

what would we call the AA prophecy? - it's pretty outright stated, but it's likely not false.

I think the proposed solution (Dany) is false, not the prophecy itself, necessarily.

Edited by Apple Martini, 14 April 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[Dr. Pepper]

Apple Martini, on 14 April 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Except that we have a POV who actually sees Quentyn die and observes his dead body. So it doesn't fit the pattern the way Davos' "death" does. That pattern would be, someone in King's Landing receives a raven saying Quentyn's dead without anyone actually seeing the body.

Haha.  I have been reading that scene totally wrong.    I always thought Selmy saw burned Quentyn to Dany's bed but then he kept away and then three days later Missandei brings word that Quentyn died. Now that I've reread it, it makes so much more sense than what my brain was trying to come up with.

[Drinking Cersei's Tears]

Would "Arya Stark is in Westeros and went back to Winterfell to marry Ramsay Bolton" go in the lie category?

[Apple Martini]

Drinking Cersei, on 14 April 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

Would "Arya Stark is in Westeros and went back to Winterfell to marry Ramsay Bolton" go in the lie category?

I would say so, yes.

[Teal'c]

Lie: Tyrion tells Jaime he did kill Joff.

[DarkSnow]

"The black cat in the Red Keep is Balerion."  Can someone explain this theory to me please, Never heard this one before.

Edited by DarkSnow, 14 April 2012 - 08:26 PM.

[Red Raven]

Rhaegar's daughter, Rhaenys had a black kitten named Balerion.  Years later this cat, now an old, snarly tomcat with chewed ears, pops up on occasion in the Red Keep - Robert remembers it jumping on a table and stealing some food off of Tywin's plate, it was the cat that Arya was chasing when she ended up in the room with the dragon skulls, and is also the same cat that pesters Tommen's kittens.

Edited by Red Raven, 14 April 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[King Doug]

DarkSnow, on 14 April 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

"The black cat in the Red Keep is Balerion."  Can someone explain this theory to me please, Never heard this one before.

This one I'm not sure about either. But I think someone said they were referring to Balerion as Rhaenys's cat (Elia/Rhaegar's daughter that was killed by the Lannisters during the sack of KL). I'm starting a re-read and this is one thing I'm trying to pay attention to, among many others

[Red Raven]

Outright Lie:  Ned was the Stark who got Ashara pregnant.

Sneaky Truth:  Brandon was the one who impregnated her.

Evidence:  Barristan Selmy remembers Ned with respect and speaks well of him but gets annoyed almost to the point of spitting when talking about the "Stark" who knocked her up and left her.  Selmy doesn't name which Stark but it wouldn't be Ned if Selmy remembered Ned as honorable.  Benjen was too young.

[Jem]

Red Raven, on 14 April 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Outright Lie:  Ned was the Stark who got Ashara pregnant.

Sneaky Truth:  Brandon was the one who impregnated her.

Evidence:  Barristan Selmy remembers Ned with respect and speaks well of him but gets annoyed almost to the point of spitting when talking about the "Stark" who knocked her up and left her.  Selmy doesn't name which Stark but it wouldn't be Ned if Selmy remembered Ned as honorable.  Benjen was too young.

Barristan never says a Stark impregnated Ashara.

• Ashara was 'dishonored' at Harrenhal.
  
• Ashara 'looked to' a Stark.

Two separate things.

[Teal'c]

The Red Snake did it, Oberyn Martell.

[Red Raven]

"Ser Barristan Selmy revealed that Ashara killed herself because she gave birth to a stillborn daughter. According to Selmy, a Stark bedded her at the tournament of Harrenhal and got her with child. Ashara was full of grief after the death of her child and shame for the way Stark dishonored her, which led to her suicide."

http://awoiaf.wester..._note-RaDwD67-4

[Jem]

Red Raven, on 14 April 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

"Ser Barristan Selmy revealed that Ashara killed herself because she gave birth to a stillborn daughter. According to Selmy, a Stark bedded her at the tournament of Harrenhal and got her with child. Ashara was full of grief after the death of her child and shame for the way Stark dishonored her, which led to her suicide."

http://awoiaf.wester..._note-RaDwD67-4

Don't trust the wiki. This is just someone's interpretation, and in my opinion, it is wrong.

This is one example of GRRM being tricksy with his writing. He does it fairly often.

[King Doug]

Jem, on 14 April 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Don't trust the wiki. This is just someone's interpretation, and in my opinion, it is wrong.

This is one example of GRRM being tricksy with his writing. He does it fairly often.

Agreed, as I recall, it was only speculation on Selmy's part. Never definitive

[Fire Eater]

Lie:
Aegon is Rhaegar's son
Dany or Stannis is Azor Ahai
Domeric Bolton died of natural causes
Dunk was knighted
Euron sailed to Valyria where he got the dragon horn
Ned dishonored Catelyn by siring a bastard
Mance Rayder was executed
Stannis was defeated by the Boltons

Truth:
Sandor is the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle
Melisandre was a temple prostitute in the Red Temple of Volantis (her tears were flame)
Gendry's father was Robert

Edited by Fire Eater, 14 April 2012 - 11:59 PM.