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Pate?


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21 replies to this topic

#1 House Balstroko

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:43 AM

I know the guy who claims to be Pate at the very end of the book, when speaking with Samwell is not the same Pate from the prologue but an imposter. Does that mean that Samwell walked into a trap at the end?

#2 Ser Barristan BadAss

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:58 PM

Many people on the board think that Pate is/has to be Jaqen H'gar. We know that Jaqen is a Faceless man, aka a trained murderer. That's not a good start for Sam lol. He was quite honorable when it came to Arya, I think Pate might follow Samto the Wall.

#3 Chise

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:34 PM

I know the guy who claims to be Pate at the very end of the book, when speaking with Samwell is not the same Pate from the prologue but an imposter. Does that mean that Samwell walked into a trap at the end?


nope, doesn't imply anything so specific. Sure, Faceless Men are up to something in the West, and Citadel is useful for info gathering (this could just as easily be tied into Lady Dustin's conspiracy theory of Maesters pulling the strings of big Houses)
Sam could just be there goin "derp derp derp, studies" and be ignored all the same

Edited by Chise, 21 February 2012 - 03:38 PM.


#4 ShaggyShaggydog

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:34 PM

I was wondering about the new Pate as well -but my guess is that Sam is not the real target.

It was also in this chapter it dawned on me that the maesters seem to have their own political agenda too.. I hope to learn more about that in DwD.

#5 House Balstroko

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:48 AM

It seems the other maester at the citadel are also unaware of Pate's identity or the fact that he died in the prologue. So it could be that the whole group is being deceived for some greater purpose, although at this point we know very little about the faceless men. I've not read ADWD, but by checking the POV's Samwell isn't in there so I don't think it will be answered in that volume.

#6 BlackTalon

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:14 AM

compare the description of Jaqen' s face after the "transformation" in Harrenhal with the description of the alchemist in the AFFC prologue ...

Edited by BlackTalon, 23 February 2012 - 08:22 AM.


#7 Your_Grace

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

That chapter ending scared me. It kinda made me feel like he was a ghost or something. I mean he isn't but he still scared me. It even bothers me more that no one seems to notice that he's not the same Pate anymore.
Sooo did the ending mean that Faceless Men "kill"/turn people into liquid when they want to copy faces? Or maybe he simply wanted to get rid of the real Pate. Jaqen didn't have to "kill"/turn people into liquid when he changed into that old man in Harrenhaal.

#8 Tyrion the lmp

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:45 AM

I was wondering about the new Pate as well -but my guess is that Sam is not the real target.

It was also in this chapter it dawned on me that the maesters seem to have their own political agenda too.. I hope to learn more about that in DwD.


Is it going to be explained in ADWD? Or was it just a guess?



That chapter ending scared me. It kinda made me feel like he was a ghost or something. I mean he isn't but he still scared me. It even bothers me more that no one seems to notice that he's not the same Pate anymore.
Sooo did the ending mean that Faceless Men "kill"/turn people into liquid when they want to copy faces? Or maybe he simply wanted to get rid of the real Pate. Jaqen didn't have to "kill"/turn people into liquid when he changed into that old man in Harrenhaal.


If you could just go through the harrenhal shape shifting passage again, you would understand that the faceless man you talked about, is Jaqen himself...
Because his face description and alchemists are the same...

(Excuse my poor English)

Edited by Tyrion the lmp, 08 March 2012 - 11:19 AM.


#9 Your_Grace

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:56 AM

Oooohh.. Really? Imma go check it now. /wideeyed.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wideeyed:' />

#10 Crown

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:59 AM

Oooohh.. Really? Imma go check it now. /wideeyed.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wideeyed:' />


Yeah, it's common theory, and probably a fact: Jaqen and the Alchemist are the same. But yeah, what is he up to?

#11 House Balstroko

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:12 PM

Yeah, it's common theory, and probably a fact: Jaqen and the Alchemist are the same. But yeah, what is he up to?


I guess we'll find out in a few years /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':laugh:' />

Sorry just had to.

#12 Ygrette

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 01:08 PM

Has anyone else noticed that there are several guys named Pate in the story? In the ASoS epilog there was a mention of a knight called Pate, I think Brienne knew one as well... I don't actually remember the characters, because they were only vaguely mentioned, but I stumbled across that name so often that it left a mark in my brain like "the bear and the maiden" and the comet in ACoK.

I know a horse called Pate, so it stuck. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#13 Tyrion the lmp

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:02 PM

Has anyone else noticed that there are several guys named Pate in the story? In the ASoS epilog there was a mention of a knight called Pate, I think Brienne knew one as well... I don't actually remember the characters, because they were only vaguely mentioned, but I stumbled across that name so often that it left a mark in my brain like "the bear and the maiden" and the comet in ACoK.

I know a horse called Pate, so it stuck. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


Joffery and Tommen's weeping boy was named Pate as well. But I can't imagine how they are possibly connected to each other... It might be just a simple coincidence..

Edited by Tyrion the lmp, 08 March 2012 - 09:03 PM.


#14 Ygrette

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:43 AM

It seems to be a very common name. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#15 House Balstroko

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:10 AM

It seems to be a very common name. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />


Indeed, there are numerous instances where we have characters with same names which is not something unusual in a well realised world, just like you we do in our own. There is no reason for fantasy to shy away from that. Sometimes it is also done in order to offer a tribute to a well respected historical figure.
Although in this case I do believe the Pate in question is meant to be the one from the prologue.

#16 SarellaSand

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:25 PM

I haven't seen this anywhere, and it's gotten me thinking. Does anyone else think Alleras might be in with the FM that killed Pate? Even Sam, who'd never met the original Pate, felt something was off with the 'pale, soft' boy. Alleras is very sharp and had known Pate for over a year, so it seems odd that she wouldn't have noticed something.

#17 Faceless Frog Eater

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:43 AM

Pate is the name of a sort of fairy tale fool in children's stories , Pate's character wonders how much his mother hated him to give him that name.
If the "new Pate" is Jaqen he would have some kind of influence over the people around him (like Rorge and Biter in the second book when he got them to free the Northmen ). Maybe he's fooling everyone around him but Sam by choice. I hope so. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but Sam is kind of the heroic fool of the story all his choices are seemingly random but allways right (kinda like Sam from Lord of the Rings). It might be significant that he's now with someone named for the heroic fool in GRRM's world.

#18 Moshroom

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:51 PM

I think if fake-Pate is Jaqen, it's kind of odd that the FM has always sth to do with the Night's Watch..
We don't know why Jaqen was in the black cells, it's possible he WANTED to be in there because he knew that the three prisoners would be sent to the Wall. And now he's in the Citadel right when a brother of the NW arrives - and there were supposed to come more.
Could also just be coincidence

#19 Bronn Stone

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 01:08 AM

I haven't seen this anywhere, and it's gotten me thinking. Does anyone else think Alleras might be in with the FM that killed Pate? Even Sam, who'd never met the original Pate, felt something was off with the 'pale, soft' boy. Alleras is very sharp and had known Pate for over a year, so it seems odd that she wouldn't have noticed something.


I think you can pretty much identify Alleras by reciting his name backwards and referring to your own user name.

#20 ckal

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 12:43 AM

The theory that Pate is Jaqen H'ghar is interesting.

-One person here thinks he may follow Sam back to the Wall. Well Jaqen was seemingly trying to get to the wall since AGOT, but why? And was he really? He certainly could've gotten there by now if he wanted to instead of going through this whole ordeal.

-Prologue Pate wasn't turned into liquid, it was GRRM's description of how Pate felt. Pate was probably poisoned/paralyzed, and his legs were giving out aka like jelly/liquid.

-Does this now involve Dany in some way?

-What would Jaqen want to do/get at Oldtown....the 'alchemist' got that key from Prologue Pate to get something. But what?

-There's like 4 different people named Pate in AFFC.


Also, why is the Sphinx the riddle? Is this Alleras? Is he of some big importance? Who knows...

Edited by ckal, 03 June 2012 - 12:44 AM.