Pliskin Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 ETA: Also, as FanTasy pointed out and you implied, this theory kind of relies on Ned knowing about the Aegon switch, yes? Ned recalls dead baby Aegon in his POV and never hints that he knew or suspected that the child was fake.The theory implies that Aegon (Elia's son) is dead and that YG/"Aegon" is R+L's son.There is no fake child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Meth- Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 i figure lightbringer is probably in the wall somewhere or in winterfell crypts.. definitely in the north though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The theory implies that Aegon (Elia's son) is dead and that YG/"Aegon" is R+L's son.There is no fake child.I'm pretty sure a Blackfyre is going to turn up somewhere and who else would be one if not the "Aegon" that is with Jon Connington? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Martin could have just given the "official" age of Jon. His age if we follow Ned's official version. The age Jon thinks he is.I don't buy that, sorry. I can see him declining to give an exact age, but when Martin says he was born at the end of a yearlong war, I take that to mean that Brandon can't be his father, because he would have been dead when Jon was conceived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Dawn doesn't emit it's own heat, dawn doesn't even have the characteristics of a flaming sword. Dawn is a milkglass coloured bastard sword. how would lightbringer end up all the way in dorne? Lightbringer has it's own lore.. and dawn has it's own lore.. how could anyone think they are the same?Like I said, this is not the place to discuss "Dawn = Lightbringer" theory. There are many threads for that.I'll just summarize quickly the the pro arguments, like you summarized the cons :- Dawn means pretty much literally "Lightbringer". The name could have been lost in translation between Westeros and Ashai.- Dawn is very very old. As are the Daynes. As old as the Starks and the Old Night.- Dawn comes from a fallen meteorite. Meteorite, flame, fire, flaming sword... the parallel is quickly done.- The Last Hero vanquished the Others with a sword of dragonsteel. The meteorite could be seen as a dragon (Summer does see it as a winged snake).I may have forgotten some other arguments.But please, let us not discuss this here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The theory implies that Aegon (Elia's son) is dead and that YG/"Aegon" is R+L's son.There is no fake child."Aegon" would be the fake child, then, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 I don't see this as happening, but Jon wouldn't neccessarily have to be a Dayne to somehow receive Dawn. He isn't a Mormont, yet was given Longclaw. He could return Longclaw to Jorah Mormont should he end up taking the Black and then in whatever sort of twist receive Dawn from Ashara.Well, I'd like that.Don't know."Aegon" would be the fake child, then, no?I meant there is no swapped child. The first Aegon is really dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Lady Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Dawn doesn't emit it's own heat, dawn doesn't even have the characteristics of a flaming sword. Dawn is a milkglass coloured bastard sword. how would lightbringer end up all the way in dorne? Lightbringer has it's own lore.. and dawn has it's own lore.. how could anyone think they are the same?Hmm for the sake of the argument let me assume Dawn = LB for a sec (I personally don't think it is)heat - true, but the first time around it needed to be tempered in the "Nissa Nissa" to ignite, who says it doesn't need to be redone to burn again?how it ended up in Dorne - no ideaabout the lore - the one thing doesn't automatically exclude the other:Dawn = the time that brings the light = "Lightbringer"Dawn's history implies that it is old enough to be LB, and it was supposedly made from a comet (a "bleeding star")"draw from the fire a flaming sword" could mean tempering it out of the burning hot metal of the comet. or something like this.Just to give you an idea where people get this theory from.On topic: Jon wouldn't necessaily have to be a Dayne to receive Dawn I guess, but the logistics don't make sense anyway. Jon is at the Wall, and not likely to make a trip down souh anytime soon, and I don't think anyone at Starfall suddenly gets the idea to carry Dawn up north for some reason.Sorry if I'm not making too much sense, I'm down with the flu, and can't really make coherent thoughts in German, let alone in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwing duck Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I got the impression that "Dawn" was something akin to the swords the Others use. Some sort of crystal that is so cold it shatters all other swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Lady Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I got the impression that "Dawn" was something akin to the swords the Others use. Some sort of crystal that is so cold it shatters all other swords.good catch! The "pale as milkglass" sure is intriguing...I want to see that thing in action! (just not in Dorkstar's hands please) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I meant there is no swapped child. The first Aegon is really dead.Right. Still doesn't explain the time line issue with Jon's birth. Or really even why Ned would have to take Ashara's child up north in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I got the impression that "Dawn" was something akin to the swords the Others use. Some sort of crystal that is so cold it shatters all other swords.Considering Ned, Howland and friends defeated Dawn, I doubt it shattered all other swords. Have we been told explicitly what happened to it? I would have thought either Ned or Howland did something with it considering they were the only two to survive the Tower of Joy. It'd be funny as hell if the sword Hodor was using north of the Wall was Dawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Considering Ned, Howland and friends defeated Dawn, I doubt it shattered all other swords. Have we been told explicitly what happened to it? I would have thought either Ned or Howland did something with it considering they were the only two to survive the Tower of Joy. It'd be funny as hell if the sword Hodor was using north of the Wall was Dawn.Dawn is at Starfall, awaiting the next Sword of the Morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What is dead may never die Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Dawn is at Starfall, awaiting the next Sword of the Morning.Could that person be Edric Dayne? Any speculation as to who is parents might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Could that person be Edric Dayne? Any speculation as to who is parents might be?I don't think he's anything but the son of the former lord of Starfall (Ashara's brother).He's too young to be the son of any character we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Could that person be Edric Dayne? Any speculation as to who is parents might be?He's the son of Arthur and Ashara's brother, whoever he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Dawn is at Starfall, awaiting the next Sword of the Morning.But we know it was at the Tower of Joy when only Ned and Howland survived. This leads me to believe the one at Starfall could be a fake, especially if it is kept out of view, or they just lie about it being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Could that person be Edric Dayne? Any speculation as to who is parents might be?The SotM isn't just a hereditary honor, it is an earned and bestowed title - so it could be any worthy Dayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 But we know it was at the Tower of Joy when only Ned and Howland survived. This leads me to believe the one at Starfall could be a fake, especially if it is kept out of view, or they just lie about it being there.Why would Ned lie about returning it to Starfall? And why would he - or Howland - keep it? Also, when did it get faked, who had the ability to make a fake that would fool the Daynes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky333 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn,George R. R. Martin (2011-07-11T21:00:00+00:00). A Dance with Dragons (Kindle Locations 17164-17165). Bantam Books. Kindle Edition. Ashara cannot be Jon's mother. Her daughter was stillborn and she jumped from a tower soon after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.