92 replies to this topic

[funkymonkey]

He did it for Jaime. And he did it for Theon.

So in the next book will we discover that he's actually a horribly misunderstood character and that someone else was forcing him to rape and murder all those innocent women and flay people alive?

Edited by funkymonkey, 22 February 2012 - 08:38 AM.

[Mr. E]

If Martin could pull that off, he would be the greatest writer who ever lived.

But then again, you're right, the same could be said for Jamie...

Damn.

Honestly, I don't think so. While Jamie at the very least is a misunderstood man who made a terrible decision (Bran), I never got the impression that he was anything but an arrogant douchebag. Ramsey Bolton just looks pure evil.

[Winter's Lady]

NO!
To make him likeable Ramsay would have to personally resurrect all the girls he tortured an killed, hand Winterfell over to any Stark who happens to pass by there first and then let himself get eaten by Ghost and/or a dragon. That guy is messed up. No redemption for him.

ETA: But if anyone could pull that off it's Martin, and I would probably curse him eternally for it.

Edited by Lady of Oldcastle, 22 February 2012 - 08:50 AM.

[Pliskin]

funkymonkey, on 22 February 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

Will GRRM make Ramsay Bolton "likeable"?

No.

Edited by Pliskin, 22 February 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[alienarea]

You're saying he isn't?

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

Ramsay Bolton has just as much a chance of becoming likeable as a one legged man has winning an ass kicking contest.

[Winter's Lady]

alienarea, on 22 February 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

You're saying he isn't?

Now that you say it, he's a misunderstood ray of sunshine, isn't he?

[Really old griff]

Wait, he's not likeable now?

This is a man who;
Helps his smallfolk get exersice by giving them a great incentive
Comes up with excellent ploys that would put Varys or LF to shame and fool most of the north
Is apparently pretty kinky in bed (and who doesn't like that?), and doesn't get jelous easily
got rid of the ironborn from winterfell
and punished their leader

and all of this whilst being raised from nothing? Why if Gendry or Edric storm did even half of those things every reader would love them (and they'd jump to the top of every "character you'd sleep with" thread)

[Pliskin]

alienarea, on 22 February 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

You're saying he isn't?

I like to hate him. But I don't like him.
Don't mix both.

Edited by Pliskin, 22 February 2012 - 09:00 AM.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

I don't see how, to be honest I don't think Jaime or Theon are comparable to Ramsay. Ramsay hunts women for fun, rapes them, flays them... Theon and Jaime acted like douches, yes, but I don't see the evilness I see in Ramsay in any of them.

[Blue Rose Direwolf]

He might but I don't think it would work. Ramsay's too sadistic.

Jaime was someone who did messed up things but there were also signs from the beginning that he wasn't all bad. Like the fact that Robert's infidelity to Cercei really upset him because of how it humiliated her. Or when he told Ned that he killed Aerys because it seemed like justice for how Aerys tortured Brandan and Rickard Stark. Even when he tried to kill Bran he said something like: "the things I do for love," implying that even then he was just trying to protect those he cared about.

Theon, despite never seeming quite right, was someone who did good things. He rescued Bran and Rob from the Widlings and stood by Rob's side at the Whispering Wood. Even when he took Winterfell, he kept trying to make the people like him by not harming them (even though he seriously cocked that up).

With Ramsay, there's been nothing good at all. From how he forced his first wife to marry him, to how he flays and tortures people, to how his own father says he had badness in his blood. I think Ramsay is George Martin's idea of pure psycopath. He might show how Ramsay became a psychopath, like how his bastard upbringing messed him up and how his friendship with Reek left him needing someone like that to prop him up, but I doubt it. I think Ramsay is an argument on the case of nature vs nuture and that some people are just born bad.

Edited by Blue Rose Direwolf, 22 February 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[Blue Rose Direwolf]

Really old griff, on 22 February 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

Wait, he's not likeable now?

This is a man who;
Helps his smallfolk get exersice by giving them a great incentive
Comes up with excellent ploys that would put Varys or LF to shame and fool most of the north
Is apparently pretty kinky in bed (and who doesn't like that?), and doesn't get jelous easily
got rid of the ironborn from winterfell
and punished their leader

and all of this whilst being raised from nothing? Why if Gendry or Edric storm did even half of those things every reader would love them (and they'd jump to the top of every "character you'd sleep with" thread)

I love your take on things! If only everyone could be this optimistic.

Edited by Blue Rose Direwolf, 22 February 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[Gurkhal]

No chance in hell that Ramsay will end as something else than a villain. Even while Jaime and Theon, who I liked from the start, got made symphatic Euron Greyjoy, Gregor Clegane, Amory Lorch, Vargo Hoat and more were depicted as scum to the last moment of their lives.

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

Yea I agree....Jaime isn't on the same level of Ramsey.
Jaime was just a privileged arse. He loved Cersei, Tyrion, even Tywin.....sure he was a lousy father but it was mentioned more than once that Cersei refused to allow him to hold his own children and made him keep a distance so he was not granted much of an opportunity to feel like a father to them. Bran was a mistake but his reasoning behind it was from protecting Cersei (and of course himself).
He also did slay Aerys and felt fully justified as he did NOT like the mad king.

Ramsey....he's like an intellectual version of Gregor. Nothing more than a killing machine who gains no true pleasure from the world.

[Arkash]

alienarea, on 22 February 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

You're saying he isn't?

Seconded ! ^^


But seriously: GRRM never managed to make Joffrey likeable, he'll never manage to make Ramsay liekable !

Edited by Arkash, 22 February 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[Apple Martini]

Theon and Jaime have each done terrible, unforgivable things. But neither of them are sadists.

[Pliskin]

They did it for a reason (bad or not).
Ramsay does it for fun.

[lewis92]

i preferred Theon when he was a dick lol
dont think he could make Ramsay likeable though, if Martin done a pov i dont see how he could justify any of the sick stuff he has done, like how Jaime killing Aerys was actually for a good reason

[Lady Blackfyre]

I don't think GRRM would have any interest in making Ramsay likeable, I don't see a point plot-wise.

He may, on the other hand, try (and even succeed) in making us pity him.

[Falrinn]

Highly unlikely.

Ramsey Bolton is one of the few characters in the series that is truly psychotic. Jamie might not of been portrayed as the nicest guy from day 1 (almost killing Bran does not qualify someone as a "nice guy") but he generally had very good reasons for doing what he did.

As for Ramsey Bolton, the man truly psychotic. Jamie never really enjoyed pushing Bran off the tower, Theon killed the miller's boys because he knew he couldn't come back empty handed if he was to retain control of Winterfell. Ramsey on the other hand does all sorts of sick and horrible things...for fun. It even disturbs Roose, who only does such things if there is a reason behind it.