Sansa not a Lannister

[Pliny]

I'd like to think that Tyrion's endless emo-ing about Tysha in ADWD was just a red herring, and that he'll continue his "growing up" (I interpreted his hitting rock bottom and stopping his alcohol abuse as a beginning of this) by becoming responsible, deciding that Sansa is his wife and thus he's got to protect her and honor that, and they'll use their union to heal the continent (against the Targaryens, maybe?). "Rescuing" Sansa from creepster LF and unrefined Harry the Heir will make her come to love him.

As I said, I'd like to think this will happen, but I'm probably being as unrealistic and romantic as Sansa herself.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

(So, the threads were blended. :))

*sigh* how lame, damn mods. you were wrong thou got past 5 posts

They could have asked Tywin before Tyrion helped him pass away to a better life, because he got the annulment for Tyrion/Tysha's marriage. Don't forget Tyrion married Tysha before, so annulments are possible in Westeros.

but Tyrion doesn't want an annulment, if anything Sansa does (but why would she?)

[Gurkhal]

*sigh* how lame, damn mods. you were wrong thou got past 5 posts

but Tyrion doesn't want an annulment, if anything Sansa does (but why would she?)

Wait, hold the presses. Are you really asking "why" Sansa would want to have her marriage with Tyrion declare null and void?

[MaryaStone]

*sigh* how lame, damn mods. you were wrong thou got past 5 posts

but Tyrion doesn't want an annulment, if anything Sansa does (but why would she?)

:lmao: :bang: :dunce: :angry: :angry2: :bawl: :ack:

Is it clearer with emoticons? Because we have explained that which needn't be explained a thousand times.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Wait, hold the presses. Are you really asking "why" Sansa would want to have her marriage with Tyrion declare null and void?

Yes, she is an outlaw and a player in AGOT thusly she shall play. Lets look at her hand,

She has a slight chance of claiming the North. But her brothers (and Arya) have a better claim for Winterfell and Robb wrote his will specifically to disinherit Sansa.

She has a better chance of takeing the East, if she woos "The Heir", divorces Tyrion, and kills her cousin (thru a Marillion traumatic songs and daily leechings) then she will become a pawn in LF's Cyvasse board

Then there is the West. Her husband has a strong chance of becoming Lord of Casterly Rock, who is bent on the destruction and restoration of House Lannister,

And then like i said before it would help out the ReAlm to have the Lion and Wolf at peace before Winter/Wights/Others/Dragons/Griffins/Flowers etc.etc destroy the ReAlm

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Tyrion and Tyshas marriage was never officially annulled. Tywin just bulled through and no one had the guts to bring it on the table. That would be another way out for Sansa. But in the end only one thing matters: Are there enough swords to enforce the marriage or to enforce the annullment?

[littlespider]

She has a slight chance of claiming the North. But her brothers (and Arya) have a better claim for Winterfell and Robb wrote his will specifically to disinherit Sansa.

1. Bran is turning into a tree. How does this help his chances of reclaiming the North? IT DOESN'T.

2. Arya is not only No One, but by birth order she comes after Sansa. She also has no interest in ruling, and would be a horrible ruler.

3. We don't know what is in Robb's will. We don't know exactly what his intentions were. We know he was concerned about the Lannisters claiming Winterfell because of the Lannister marriage, but that is all. Currently Robb's will is MIA.

4. The one person who practically at this point (Rickon being MIA and likely part feral) would present a threat to Sansa's claim on Winterfell is Jon. Jon, who repeatedly thinks to himself "By rights Winterfell belongs to my sister, Sansa."

So no, your points above regarding Winterfell do not hold much water.

Insofar as the practice of male children inheriting before females: this is true, for much of Westeros. But the Dornish are rising to power. And almost all of the Five Kings are dead. Now we're looking at the rise of the queens. I count six potentials:

--Cersei, whose return to power is likely, however disastrous that might be.

--Daenerys, obviously.

--Maergery, backed by the Queen of Thorns.

--Arianne, backed by the Sand Snakes.

--Asha, possibly.

--And Sansa herself, who currently, if she wanted to make a go for it, could claim rights to:

The North (through her father)

The Vale (through her aunt)

The West (through her husband, who's MIA and accused of treason)

The Riverlands (through her mother)

Any of these claims would have to be backed by significant political support and military force. Which she could very well seize in the Vale: the Lords Declarant were near revolt at Lysa's refusal to back the Young Wolf. The Lords Declarant are suspicious of Littlefinger.

And the Lords Declarant, I am certain, know exactly who Alayne Stone is.

So no, Little Mrs. Lannister she is not.

[Raksha the Demon]

If Sansa remains married to the Lannister Imp (and possible Lord Lannister), she will never be able to be a Stark in Winterfell, never regain the loyalty of the Stark bannermen, never really be able to go home again, spiritually. The best she could hope for is a loveless, passionless, marriage, possible dwarf children (she could love them, but she would suffer watching them be ostracized and laughed); and the ability to help rebuild Winterfell from afar with some Lannister gold (if there's any left after the sellswords' get their cut). If the permanence of the Lannister marriage is a done deal, then, if Sansa's lucky, Tyrion will sire a normally sized son on her, and then get himself killed; so Sansa will be the mother of a Stark-blooded Lannister heir; if she can hold onto the boy's rights...

I think the Wolf and the Lion will only come to peace if Jaime, Cersei and probably Tyrion are all dead. Though I could see Tyrion and Jon finding common ground...

[Gingerly Grumkin]

1. Bran is turning into a tree. How does this help his chances of reclaiming the North? IT DOESN'T.

2. Arya is not only No One, but by birth order she comes after Sansa. She also has no interest in ruling, and would be a horrible ruler.

3. We don't know what is in Robb's will. We don't know exactly what his intentions were. We know he was concerned about the Lannisters claiming Winterfell because of the Lannister marriage, but that is all. Currently Robb's will is MIA.

4. The one person who practically at this point (Rickon being MIA and likely part feral) would present a threat to Sansa's claim on Winterfell is Jon. Jon, who repeatedly thinks to himself "By rights Winterfell belongs to my sister, Sansa."

So no, your points above regarding Winterfell do not hold much water.

So no, Little Mrs. Lannister she is not.

Sweetling, it holds much water,

1. we dont know if Bran is 100% a tree (but he prob is, ill give you that)

2. Arya Stark (Bolton) is the current Lady of Winterfell by decree of King Tommen Baratheon (that happend for a reason)

3. We dont know the wording of the will for sure, but we know that it was written to disinherit Sansa and it prob/maybe legitimized Jon.

4. Rickon is coming back, have you heard? if you didn't then i guess you also dont know Jon is dead

I'm all for Sansa being queen, that would be awsome!

"And the Lords Declarant, I am certain, know exactly who Alayne Stone is." hmm... that would be cool, but why would they love Sansa? They dont need her to be able to march to war

[queendev]

There's no way northern bannermen will ever allow a Lannister to be the Lord of Winterfell, even if Sansa holds all the power. For now, she's only a Lannister in name. Even if Tyrion lives, it's obvious the marriage won't stand.

[ElizaMartell]

Wait, hold the presses. Are you really asking "why" Sansa would want to have her marriage with Tyrion declare null and void?

Stop bringing logic into this argument, dammit!

[Lord Godric]

1. Bran is turning into a tree. How does this help his chances of reclaiming the North? IT DOESN'T.

2. Arya is not only No One, but by birth order she comes after Sansa. She also has no interest in ruling, and would be a horrible ruler.

3. We don't know what is in Robb's will. We don't know exactly what his intentions were. We know he was concerned about the Lannisters claiming Winterfell because of the Lannister marriage, but that is all. Currently Robb's will is MIA.

4. The one person who practically at this point (Rickon being MIA and likely part feral) would present a threat to Sansa's claim on Winterfell is Jon. Jon, who repeatedly thinks to himself "By rights Winterfell belongs to my sister, Sansa."

So no, your points above regarding Winterfell do not hold much water.

I would not say that all of the points regarding Winterfell as incorrect. Robb's will may be MIA, but I doubt it will stay that way forever. While we do not exactly what was written in the will, it certainly does seem like Robb did disinherit Sansa in favor of Jon, that is why he publically showed it to everyone in front of Catelyn, because he knew she would not protest publically. Jon does not feel like Winterfell is his, that is clear by his rejection of it from Stannis, however, if it came as Robb's last will I certainly think he would accept it. Then, of course, there is the issue of Rickon who will more than likely be used as a pawn of Manderly to give power back to a Stark. With these two standing in front of Sansa's claim, Winterfell is not going to be her's without a fight.

[Faint]

I always come back to what I thought after reading the first book in the series: Why does Rickon even exist?

Ever since then I've been confident that he was clearly going to inherit Winterfell and his father's seat in the end. Even now, why bother with the Davos storyline if he will not be successful in retrieving Rickon and getting him back to Winterfell?

And, in light of that, why be so concerned with Sansa's position with respect to her father's inheritance?

I think it more likely that her mother's inheritance will be more important where she is concerned or what she can get through marriage to someone else. So when we discuss Sansa,we should be focusing on the Riverlands or the Vale (maybe even the Reach).

Sansa being the Lady in Winterfell is over and done with, though.

Next!

[Woman of War]

The whole point is that Martin writing them ending up together won't be believable without said handcuffs, dungeons and drugs.

(So, the threads were blended. :))

I guess Martin will know all by himself what he wishes to write and he won't ask our permission.

But the idea of Sansa handcuffing Tyrion in a dungeon after she drugged him and then forcing him to consummate the marriage, so he can't run away to Tysha, would actually be quite funny. But this might be advocating rape though :D

[Gingerly Grumkin]

I always come back to what I thought after reading the first book in the series: Why does Rickon even exist?

Ever since then I've been confident that he was clearly going to inherit Winterfell and his father's seat in the end. Even now, why bother with the Davos storyline if he will not be successful in retrieving Rickon and getting him back to Winterfell?

And, in light of that, why be so concerned with Sansa's position with respect to her father's inheritance?

I think it more likely that her mother's inheritance will be more important where she is concerned or what she can get through marriage to someone else. So when we discuss Sansa,we should be focusing on the Riverlands or the Vale (maybe even the Reach).

Sansa being the Lady in Winterfell is over and done with, though.

but wyman wants Rickon as king. Stannis (davos) wants him as a Lord, and LF wants all 3 of them dead, i had a thread about this sompthing about the lone wolf dies.

But this might be advocating rape though :D

:lol:

[ElizaMartell]

I always come back to what I thought after reading the first book in the series: Why does Rickon even exist?

How rude. Poor Rickon. :(

Oh and I don't think Sansa is going to rule the north. More likely she'd hold territory in the Riverlands or perhaps the Vale.

[FanTasy]

Tyrion and Tyshas marriage was never officially annulled.

Care to give some reference to the text? I'm not questioning you here, I would like to know where to find it so I can :read: it.

[bgona]

Why their marriage has to be annulled by the High Septon? Can it be annulled by another septon?

[Nausicaä]

Well i dont want to help out your argument in the OP, lol. And id love to! The Wolf and the Lion have been at war this whole time, butchering the Relm, people died, from the Young Wolf to Mycha the butchers son, what better way to make peace then with a political alliance, besides Dany & Winter is coming. Tyrion has never hated the Starks, he fought in one battle against the North (no Starks present) and all other fights was against Stannis. He saved Cat's life, taught Snow to not be an ass, gave Bran a saddle, stopped Sansa from getting beat, and never touched her. Sansa is currently in the grip of LF (killed her dad) and shall be married to "the heir" (after he kills her cuz), sounds sketchy to say the least. Sansa is the only "living" Stark and needs revenge against Cersei, who better to help then the rightful heir of Casterly Rock. And Sansa does not hate Tyrion, in ASOS -"sometimes she dreamed of Tyrion also. 'he did nothing'"

Utterly destroy the Lannisters and CR and use their money to heal the rest of the realm and feed them through the winter?

[FanTasy]

Why their marriage has to be annulled by the High Septon? Can it be annulled by another septon?

Guess not. I suppose then the rule would be: it can be annulled by any septon. Clearly the Faith wanted to have some control here about marriages being annulled or not, given not only religious implications but probably political too.