400 replies to this topic

[str8 outta Old Town]

Lummel, on 26 February 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm not sure the word Oriental is currently used differently in the UK than it is in the USA.  Applied to a person it seems fusty and Victorian to me with the word 'inscrutable' and the phrase 'opium den' as it's handmaids.

What word would you use to descrbe people Burma and East?

I don't think Oriental is offensive, but maybe "East Asian"is more modern sounding.

[Verboten]

Minaku, on 26 February 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Au contraire, it IS about you.  You're the other side.  There have to be two sides in order to have racism in the first place.

The best result would be if you examined your actions and made positive changes to the way you think and act.  That's all we can really ask for.

Sorry, that was poorly worded. I meant that we can continue working on the ways we think and act without having a nuanced understanding of what it's like to be on the recieving end of racism. That seems to be a thing with some people, they can't understand exactly why something is bad so they dismiss it as being irrational or nonexistent.

EDIT: Note that by some people I mean my fathers entire family, not anyone on this board.

Edited by Verboten, 26 February 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[str8 outta Old Town]

Arrogant Bastard, on 26 February 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

Ok, these links are crap. The abcnews says family guy is "arguably" liberal. The rest are just random online people, and most of them sound like morons. I'm sure most fans of Family Guy don't even think about politics when watching the show; from the episodes I've seen, it hardly has a liberal agenda, mainly just lame jokes and occasional references to politics. And still, your attempt to point out racial hypocrisy because people offended by a news reporter joking about Asian eyes must watch Family Guy because it's aimed at liberals is just really dumb.

I'm a revolutionary socialist, I know politics, and I've watched family guy. Do you watch family guy?

[Minaku]

str8 outta Old Town, on 26 February 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

What word would you use to descrbe people Burma and East?

I don't think Oriental is offensive, but maybe "East Asian"is more modern sounding.

Ever since I retired half my sig, I have had serious regrets about doing so.  Maybe I need to bring it back.

[str8 outta Old Town]

Minaku, on 26 February 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Ever since I retired half my sig, I have had serious regrets about doing so.  Maybe I need to bring it back.

I come from a culture where "Oriental" means "from the east". I don't understand your American take on the word, or even why that should be less offensive than the term "Asian". If anyone can coherently explain why Oriental is offensive and Asian isn't please post below.

For me and my community, an Asian is only a person with roots in India, Pakistan, Bangldesh or Sri Lanka. Some Afghans would fit in that also, but only the ones who speak languages similar to Hindi.

[Arrogant Bastard]

str8 outta Old Town, on 26 February 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

I'm a revolutionary socialist, I know politics, and I've watched family guy. Do you watch family guy?

No, though I'm also not a revolutionary socialist and am generally apathetic towards politics. Still, what does that have to do with anything?

[str8 outta Old Town]

Typical Woman, on 26 February 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Let's be clear, then: you think people who're offended by the racialized portrayal of Lin in the media "have a broomstick up (our) arses"?

And, an honest query: If you know that the word "Oriental" is interpreted different in the U.S., why would you insist on using it in a discussion about race issues in the U.S.? Is that to make a point? Or do you just not care that the term is deemed offensive by many here?

I think that several arses on this thread have been thoroughly penetrated by cleaning devices, though I refuse to speculate as to the exact nature of said devices. I used the word orientl because in the dialect of English I speak, Asian spcifically excludes the people in question, and I feel that changing my language to suit American standards would be bowing to racist cultural imperialism.

I don't tell SAFfers not to say coloured, so I won't change terms that are acceptable where I come from.

[str8 outta Old Town]

Arrogant Bastard, on 26 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

No, though I'm also not a revolutionary socialist and am generally apathetic towards politics. Still, what does that have to do with anything?

So why are you are telling me that you know for certain that that the politics (a subject you claim to know nothing about) of a show that you don't watch aren't liberal?

Seems a bit weird.

Edited by str8 outta Old Town, 26 February 2012 - 08:08 PM.

[ROLF]

Manhole Eunuchsbane, on 26 February 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

It sounded a lot like the "It's a (insert racial minority of your choice) thing, you wouldn't understand" box. Kind of dismissive.

Maybe dismissive, but that doesn't make it also not true.

Me personally, I've been trying to get in Terra's box for years, but he's a crafty motherfucker who's continued to duck and dodge me.  Time is on my side though.  

[Arrogant Bastard]

str8 outta Old Town, on 26 February 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

So why are you are telling me that you know for certain that that the politics (a subject you claim to know nothing about) of a show that you don't watch aren't liberal?

Seems a bit weird.

Well, I used to watch Family Guy back in high school and I never noticed anything in it even resembling a liberal agenda--maybe it's changed since, I don't know. And by being apathetic about politics, I meant that I don't care about politics, not that I know nothing about them.

But here, you said that

Quote

Family Guy is constantly described as a liberal show (I'm not a liberal by the way, they are far too right wing for me), and it is aimed at a media-savvy left-ish young urban audience.

I don't think this is true. I've never heard Family Guy described as a liberal show from anyone but you and those three random internet bloggers and commenters whose links you provided. And I always see commercials for Family Guy while watching Football, and it's not being marketed towards left-ish young urban audiences. They just show the slapstick bits in the commercials, and everyone in college who I knew that loved Family Guy weren't young urban liberal.

But I was mainly annoyed by your attempt to use Family Guy as some sort of liberal program to point out how Americans are hypocrites for complaining about that reporter clearly poking fun at Asian eyes and then laughing about the same jokes on Family Guy, because anyone offending by that must be a liberal who watches the liberal show Family Guy.

ETA: I'm mainly offended to be connected to laughing at Family Guy. I'm like Cartman, I can't stand that program and the assumption that I laugh at it's lame jokes is very offensive.

Edited by Arrogant Bastard, 26 February 2012 - 08:38 PM.

[Lord O' Bones]

Typical Woman, on 26 February 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

skirt around

Sexism.

Manhole Eunuchsbane, on 26 February 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

flirted with that line

Promiscuity.

Nukelavee, on 26 February 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

You bet your ass I am

Gambling.

DanteGabriel, on 26 February 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

I'm going to get pissed.

Alcoholism.

Luisa Aoiftrazzini, on 26 February 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

the rest of us are approximately 5

Ageism.

This thread is appalling.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Lord O, on 26 February 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Sexism.


Promiscuity.


Gambling.


Alcoholism.


Ageism.

This thread is appalling.

I sincerely hope that no women, sluts, degenerates, drunks or senior citizens have been offended by this thread.

Edited by Manhole Eunuchsbane, 26 February 2012 - 10:22 PM.

[TerraPrime]

str8 outta Old Town, on 26 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

I used the word orientl because in the dialect of English I speak, Asian spcifically excludes the people in question, and I feel that changing my language to suit American standards would be bowing to racist cultural imperialism.

Your stick-it-to-the-man-ness would be really appropriate if it's actually a form of cultural imperialism to question your choice to use a word that may come across as insensitive to a group of people. It's not like a horde of Asian-Americans are descending in the U.K. isles demanding that you all conform to our sensitivity. It's a thread about racism against Asian-Americans. I don't think it's out of line to inform you about the language norm in this context. And, not that you need our permission, but feel free to continue to use "oriental" in the cultural sphere where your dialect of English holds sway.

Quote

I don't tell SAFfers not to say coloured, so I won't change terms that are acceptable where I come from.

I don't know what SAF stands for, but I sure wish I knew what they had done to earn your respect for their determination of what language to use that Asian-Americans have not managed to earn, because it sure seems that you have no problems whatsoever questioning and criticizing what we prefer to call ourselves.

[Nukelavee]

Dante - one last time.  I have yet to tell you what you should or shouldn't care about.  I said, "I don't know if we can say the writer was racist".  You went to Yahoo's blame factor.  I agreed.  I said it was stupid to let that pass.  You got going about editors - I pointed out the odds of everything there being checked by an editor were pretty slim to nil, and you got angry.  I asked "Show me where it says that, so I will know".  You seem to have assumed at that point I was making a point I wasn't.  It was a simple - If you've found it, tell me.  Wolf Maid found something that said they do edit, but, on that very same page, twice, Yahoo states, in plain language, "No, we do not check every photo or image posted".  What part of that statement aren't you accepting.  Yahoo says they don't check everything.

Now, WM said she figured that meant for source, I said, "could be, I don't know, because it could also be taken as check for anything".

Again - where is my denial of anything except the certainty you claim on that point?


Nobody wants to waste time either writing, or reading, us listing our grievances and defenses for our retorts again and again.  So, bluntly - I ask you, just accept that I mean what I've said, when I've said "I don't think I know enough to make a judgement on "this"", it didn't mean "don't you dare take that as racism.

Either accept it, or don't.

On the other hand - I apologize for the extreme posts over the last day or so.  For what it's worth, some of the experiences I listed in the psycho post are still a lot closer to the surface then I seem to admit to myself, and yes, I seem to have done exactly what I was ranting against, because people managed to trigger reactions simply by sounding like people from my past.  In addition, the friend that means the most to me is going thru a time that, in all honest, deserves it's own thread, if I had the stomach to let myself.  Simply - if my phone doesn't ring at a certain time, I prepare myself for the worst.  If it rings at any other time, I'm convinced I'm heading to a morgue.  Again, people have hit triggers on it, not realizing they even existed to hit.  Specifically, Terra*.  Life has conditioned me to go all out when I think I see something coming at me (I kid you not, shadows moving are enough to make me react), physical or verbal, and worry about the fallout later.  I've always been happy with a pyrrhic  victory.

In short- those aren't your problems, and, generally, I wouldn't allow myself to lose track of things like this, and behave this way.  I fucked up.

I can't promise I won't piss some of you off ever again, but it won't be on this scale, and it won't be because I'm mistaking personal problems for what's on the screen.

*and I only mention that, because, well, yeah, I clearly was focusing on him at points, when he was being calm enough to ignore it.

eta - gonna guess SAF refers to South Africa.  I seem to recall "coloured" refered to people not white, but not African.

Edited by Nukelavee, 26 February 2012 - 11:30 PM.

[Triskele]

Bonesy - That was a brilliant and exacting deconstruction of the moral malaise that has overtaken our times.


I am not a regular watcher of Family Guy, but just as an anecdote, I have a really conservative friend who loves it.

Edited by The Sinister Kid, 26 February 2012 - 11:36 PM.

[Lummel]

str8 outta Old Town, on 26 February 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

What word would you use to descrbe people Burma and East?

I don't think Oriental is offensive, but maybe "East Asian"is more modern sounding.

Personally I'd go with Asian, like those Asian tiger economies that people used to talk about back in the 90s.

I don't think it's the word itself in this case (though I would be surprised if somebody called me an Occidental), it's the baggage that comes with it.

Edited by Lummel, 27 February 2012 - 05:08 AM.

[Galactus]

Lummel, on 27 February 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

Personally I'd go with Asian, like those Asian tiger economies that people used to talk about back in the 90s.

I don't think it's the word itself in this case (though I would be surprised if somebody called me an Occidental), it's the baggage that comes with it.

I have been referred to as occidental, but mind, that was by an arab.

[Lummel]

I had some say to me once that they expected me to 'act the white man' with them and from context it was clear that they didn't expect me to claim their house in the name of the Queen and set up a system of tolls between their kitchen and living room.

[ROLF]

Nukelavee, on 26 February 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

On the other hand - I apologize for the extreme posts over the last day or so.  For what it's worth, some of the experiences I listed in the psycho post are still a lot closer to the surface then I seem to admit to myself, and yes, I seem to have done exactly what I was ranting against, because people managed to trigger reactions simply by sounding like people from my past.  In addition, the friend that means the most to me is going thru a time that, in all honest, deserves it's own thread, if I had the stomach to let myself.  Simply - if my phone doesn't ring at a certain time, I prepare myself for the worst.  If it rings at any other time, I'm convinced I'm heading to a morgue.  Again, people have hit triggers on it, not realizing they even existed to hit.  Specifically, Terra*.  Life has conditioned me to go all out when I think I see something coming at me (I kid you not, shadows moving are enough to make me react), physical or verbal, and worry about the fallout later.  I've always been happy with a pyrrhic  victory.

Regardless of what has been said here, I hope your friend is here many more years/gets better/goes peacefully...whatever applies to the situation.  And I apologize for the tough time you are going through with whatever difficulty your friend is facing.

[The Warmth of Winter]

I haven't watched enough Family Guy to comment on the issue of it being purely liberal or not but I can say I've seen more jokes about the Republicans than about the Democrats if that counts for anything.

These seem pretty "liberal" to me.