131 replies to this topic

[Dracarya]

- Roose. That betrayal just cannot be forgiven.
- Ramsay. He simply makes me feel sick.
- Cersei. While her POVs and imprisonment made me feel slightly sympathetic towards her, she still royally (heh) fucked up.
- Every single Frey. 'Nuff said.
- The brothers of the NW who killed the Old Bear. Such a loss, but I guess it had to happen

[LifeRuiner]

_Oberyn_, on 23 February 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

The pact is irelevant. The choise was 50000 spears against some f*ing deseased slaves, men loyal to her family agains some desert filth.

Another great humanitarian post on this board...

Anyway, I usually have a hard time with rapists in these books, so I struggle with Tyrion. On one hand, I really like his wit and resourcefulness, and I find his struggles engaging and easy to relate to; on the other hand, he lost his moral compass with Tysha and Shae. After ADwD, I really hope that whores go to a very plot-awesome place full of Valaryan secrets and happily-ever-afters because I can't hear of it anymore.

[Gurkhal]

Ramsay, Gregor and Euron for their utter disdain for family loyalty and sexual violence.

[GreatJim Umber]

Cersei, Mel, Tyrion, Sansa, The Mountain, Joffrey, Varys, Qyburn, the Freys, the Karstarks, the Boltons, Theon, Littlefinger, Viserys, Lysa Tully, and Amory Loch

[birdsong66]

Quote

Everyone seems to hate Cersei and understandably so, but am I the only one that finds myself actually feeling a touch bad and pulling for her a bit after the whole being imprisoned, having her head and entire body shaved and being drug naked through the streets of King's Landing while being screamed and laughed at thing... Don't get me wrong, she's a sinister and cold bitch but I no longer harbor any feelings of unforgivingness or yearn to see her suffer.

Yes.  

And let me tell you why I personally "yearn to see her suffer:"  

The Early Years:

Poked Tyrion, a helpless baby, until he cried as entertainment for a Young Red Viper.  Tourture? Check.
Killed a childhood friend so as to stop The Frog's prophecy from coming true.  Murderer? Check.
Continued to engage in an incestuous relationship with her brother.  Obscene sense of entitlement?  Check.

The Robert Years:

Gave birth to three children fathered by her brother, and passed off as Baratheons.  Spiteful, Self Absorbed, above the rules? Check X3.
Murdered any living bastard of King Robert's, as well as any mother that could be found.  Conspiracist, Murderer?  Check X2

Murdered Her husband.  Had Lady killed.  Slept with half the court.  Corrupted her Uncle's son & helped him evolve into a murderer.  Helped in the attempted murder of Bran Stark.  Continued an incestuous relationship with her brother despite being found out.  Gave Qyburn people on which to "experiment." Charged Tyrion with Joffrey's murder.  Forgot that pretending you have a set of balls doesn't mean you have a set of balls, regardless of how many Myrish Swamps one has had a hand in.  Check, Check, Check.....shit, Check X infinity.

Naked, bald walk of shame?  Bitch got off easy.

Naked, bald, and flayed walk of shame?  Now you're talking....for starters.

But, you know, it's cool if you feel bad for her.

[Carn_Dum]

I'll limit myself to characters that are still alive (or present) at the end of A Dance With Dragons:

- The Freys, and Roose Bolton for their involvement in the Red Wedding (not the Freys who did not know about it beforehand though)
- Ramsay Bolton, a complete psychopath
- Qyburn for performing utterly sick experiments on still living subjects
- (Un)Gregor Clegane and those loyal to him for murdering, raping, pillaging, etc. etc.
- The Black Brothers that killed Lord Mormont, the Old Bear
- Littlefinger for his part in the murder of Ned Stark and his manipulation of Lysa Tully, which played a big part in escallating the hostilities between Starks and Lannisters
- Cersei Lannister for too many reasons to mention
- Illyrio and Varys if "Young Griff" is not Aegon Targaryen and they're aware of that fact
- Bowen Marsh and the others involved in the stabbing of Jon Snow

[Nymeria's pup]

I suppose the ones I dislike are rather obvious:
Joff... for being a complete psycopath
Cercei... for raising him to be one, and for being completely self absorbed. I blame her for Jamie in many ways. She totally used and abused him. There have been a few moments when my opinion of her almost softened, but then she went back to her awful self.
Tywin: for being so totally heartless. If anything his children became what they are because of him. The whole Tyrion/Tysha thing is unforgivable, not to mention killing babies.
The Bolton Boys...need I say more
The Mountain...ditto
The Frey conspirators...I must admit strategically that the Red Wedding makes sense, especially if you are prepared to be mistrusted forever for violating guest rights. However, there had to be a way to kill only Robb and maybe a few of his party. Tywin makes it sound like a only a few people get killed ("better to kill 10 at dinner than 10,000" to paraphrase), but they slaughter Robb's army too. The desecration of the bodies of Robb and his wolf is disgusting. Those are things that go far beyond gaining an edge into just pure evil. That is why the participating Freys must be made to die!
Randall Tarly...I saw him mention and yeah, he would be one I could not forgive just because he is such a jerk.

Also, why do so many people hate Tyrion? I see him as gray, but not evil. I think he has tried to do what he can, but he is hamper by being a Lannister. No one would ever believe he was trying to do the right thing because of that.He really tried to be good to Sansa and protect her, he gave the plans for Bran's saddle, and helped Jon Snow. Plus he can get under Cercei's skin like noone else

[Nymeria's pup]

Edit: sorry posted multiple times.

Edited by Nymeria's pup, 27 February 2012 - 04:47 PM.

[Nymeria's pup]

Edit...sorry posted multiple times.

Edited by Nymeria's pup, 27 February 2012 - 04:47 PM.

[Lord Damian]

Ramsay, Roose, Walder Frey and about 95% of the remaining Frey men and some of their Women (fat Walda and Rosalyn) Anyone name Lannister with the exception of Tyrion and Jaime is on the fence but must make huge overtures to the remaining Starks and the North.

[Lord Damian]

Ramsay, Roose, Walder Frey and about 95% of the remaining Frey men and some of their Women (fat Walda and Rosalyn) Anyone name Lannister with the exception of Tyrion and Jaime is on the fence but must make huge overtures to the remaining Starks and the North.

[Raksha the Demon]

David C. Simmons, on 23 February 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Yea it really disturbed me more than any other part in the series and really made me wish that Ramsay Bolton got a hold of Euron. Even Victarion was appalled by how they treated the women after the destruction of their territory. I actaully love Victarion, Theon and Asha but there needs to be a holocaust for the Ironborn.

I can't help but be a bit disturbed by the cavalier advocacy of 'holocaust' for a population because of the crimes of some of them - the word holocaust implies the murder of women and children as well as reavers/rapers.  I certainly do not want or advocate moderators' warnings or censorship; but I wish people might consider what it is they're wishing for when they express hope that thousands or hundreds of people, not all of whom have committed murder, would be killed.  I know that we're speaking of fictional characters, but whenever I read someone express a desire to kill every single Frey or Ironborn otherwise destroy a population that includes innocents, I feel like distancing myself from whoever posts such things.

In my opinion, there is a difference between a reader condemning various characters for their crimes and misdeeds, even wishing they were punished/dead, and wishing that a population of thousands of people including non-combatants who probably did not do anything but try to survive, or are very young and haven't done anything yet, be targeted for death.  

Again, I do not want censorship of these words and terms; because I believe in freedom of speech and no one is advocating harm to real people, only fictional characters.  But seeing this comment -there needs to be a holocaust for the Ironborn - makes my blood run cold and me do a giant step back from this thread.  

While it's true that GRRM decides, as a writer, who lives and who dies, and has done a lot of killing of his characters; including many innocents, I would imagine that he thinks, before he plans out the killing of babies and kids and old people, not so much about there needing to be a holocaust as what would happen in this-or-that war or rebellion, would this commander or lord allow/encourage depredations against the smallfolk or try to keep rape and pillage to a minimum.  GRRM seems to be trying to show the horrors of war, not saying that a holocaust is necessary to stop a culture that emphasizes rape and killing and plunder.  Not to mention that writing the Others as folks who kill indiscriminately is a good way to show that they are a serious threat to the North, and  possibly the rest of Westeros.  If GRRM is actually advocating fictional holocausts on his blog or in his interviews, as opposed to recognizing that some of his characters are evil/cruel enough to plan and carry out those holocausts, then I would certainly be wrong...

Edited by Raksha the Demon, 01 March 2012 - 10:14 PM.