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Stannis Baratheon becoming a Northman


David C. Hunter

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Stannis sacrificing Theon Greyjoy before a weirwood is significant in my eyes. Not just because of the theorized 'awakening' of something following Theon's sacrifice, but it also signifies Stannis' turn to the 'Cold Side'.

No matter what Stannis thinks, the R'hillor followers in his camp want to burn Theon, who is a prince, the appease their god, but Stannis 'will; sacrifice Theon to the Old Gods. I wonder how the Flints, and other Northmen will feel about that.

For whatever reason to me, Stannis has more of the personality of a Northern to begin with then a Southerner. His views on honor, law fall more in line with the North then the political South. Throughout the entire march from Winterfell, to the mountains, to Deepwood Motte, to their camp right outside Winterfell, Stannis' Southron men have complained more then the Hebrews during the Exodus in the Bible. Stannis never once complained about the cold. I understand he's the King and will get better treatment then the foot soldiers, but he never once complained or faltered. Robert Baratheon was in Winterfell for 4 minutes and complained about the summer snows the entire time.

At the end of ADWD Stannis seemed like he was breaking a little and was staring into the flames, probably doubting the power of R'hillor and his purpose, etc etc.

However, in the gift chapter Stannis seems damn near reinvigorated mainly due to the Umbers stunt drawing out some of Bolton's men, the coffers of the iron bank, the capture of Theon and the warning of the karstak betrayel. In a way he almost seems excited to fight The Bastard, Lord too fat and Ser Stupid.

This will be called the Battle of Ice and I think it will be significant because it can potentially show the northmen finally accepting Stannis or maybe stannis accepting their ways and gods. Maybe they may actually declare for stannis from his victory not just because he plans to return a stark to Winterfell.

I just think Stannis is changing. He is no longer being controlled by Melisandre and at first he seemed lost, but now he seems to have gotten his ground.

Also if note. Stomr's End and Dragonstone have both been captured so he doesn't have a home to go to. I do not believe he will ever return to the South, but I do believe he will live to the end of this series. Many have speculated that Stannis will become the new Night King. Maybe he will but I am starting to speculate whether the Baratheon house will become lords somewhere in the north just like the manderlys relocated.

Now some things I said can probably be well off, but is Stannis a Northman in the making?

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Theon won't die he will be taken to the heart trees, but some how he will survive. GRRM has constantly since the Kings Moot been repeating that there is only one way a Kings Moot can be over turned. The precedence case is where the son of the king was off far a away when is father was away and a Kings Moot was held without him, on his return the King that was crowned was murdered and he was crowned in his place. Essentially Theon is needed to overthrow Euron, I don't feel GRRM would mention it so much just to take Theon's head off.

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I would anticipate Stannis becoming the 999th Lord Commander of the Nights Watch before claiming Dreadfort or whichever.

The Queen's Men are close to a confrontation of sorts with the wildings and black brothers. Stannis will have to sort it out himself. Especially if Mel dies reviving Jon.

If I could pick a northman to take the dreadfort in a hypothetical Bolton downfall my vote is on Sigorn Thenn.

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Stannis is indeed changing since the start of the books where he was on dragonstone sulking. He is turning out to being the only true king in all the proceedings. I dont think he will accept any new lands in the North, His main goal is the Iron throne, and the only person I see him giving up this ambition for is Jon who he has a grudging liking for and respect. In light of such an outcome he would retake the stormlands, for if ever a northern army does come south under stark or Stannis banners the stormlands must also be retaken. Alternatively If Stannis lives the only other position I can see him taking is the 1000th LC.

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Stannis has said his place/battle is at the Wall. When he comes back to the Wall and finds out what they did to Jon, who basically would have been bring reinforcements to Stannis. Heads will roll and Bowen Marshs' should be the first.

Stannis has already threatened to name his own LC, after what they did, he will take control of the Nights Watch. The Night King come again.

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I don't think it's significant whether or not Theon will die - Stannis accepting to sacrifice him to the old gods and bringing him before the godswood will be enough for the Northmen. That will certainly gather their respect for him, and I like the idea that he would become a Lord in the North (probably the Dreadfort), since he's more northern than southern, and he is pragmatic, so he may come to admit he has no chance of getting the Stormlords' support. But I do think his greatest ambition is not really the Iron Throne, but Storm's End, and it's hard to imagine him giving up on that. So, like I said in another thread, I think there's a chance he'll regain the Baratheon seat through King Jon, maybe even become his Hand. After all, getting respect from the northmen might be just the first step to getting it elsewhere.

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If I am not mistaken, Ned changed Robert's last words about his successor from Joffrey to rightful heir. After Ned did his research from the book about Robert's offspring, he knew that Stannis was the legitimate heir to the Throne. I know Ned sent ravens out about this but to whom. Is there anyone in the North that knows Ned supported Stannis as the next King? I am guessing they didn't because the bannerman all made Robb King of the North. If the Northern Houses ever found out what Ned knew, would they rally around Stannis? Probably have some holes here but just trying to think through this angle.

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Ned didn't tell anyone loyal what he knew about anything. He presented Robert's forged will at court and Cersei tore it up in front of Lannister men, Littlefinger, the Kingsguard, and maybe some others I can't recall. His message to Stannis never got out because his messenger was killed and the ship that was supposed to carry it (and his daughters) was seized. I don't remember him sending any ravens, and that would have been impossible with Pycelle as Grand Maester. As far as it concerns those outside King's Landing, everything Ned knew died with him.

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Ned didn't tell anyone loyal what he knew about anything. He presented Robert's forged will at court and Cersei tore it up in front of Lannister men, Littlefinger, the Kingsguard, and maybe some others I can't recall. His message to Stannis never got out because his messenger was killed and the ship that was supposed to carry it (and his daughters) was seized. I don't remember him sending any ravens, and that would have been impossible with Pycelle as Grand Maester. As far as it concerns those outside King's Landing, everything Ned knew died with him.

Thanks, I totally forgot about the messenger being killed and the ship being seized. Poor Ned, he did not know how to play the Game of Thrones.

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Stannis' problem is that he can hardly change god's for the third time, and we don't know big crime burning weirwood is. But maybe he can become all for religious tolerance.

Stannis did not change gods even once, when he sends Davos under Storm's End to kill Ser Cortnay Penrose he also tells him that he believes in no gods since the day he saw his parent's ship sink in front of Storm's End

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New lord of Dreadfort, why not?

Stannis' problem is that he can hardly change god's for the third time, and we don't know big crime burning weirwood is. But maybe he can become all for religious tolerance.

Since many of the noble families of the North have the blood of the First Men and follow the Old Gods, I'd say that it isn't so much a crime as it is something that will piss Northmen off to no extent. We've seen with the Dothraki that casting down symbols of other cultures' gods is a sign of ultimate disrespect; if Stannis wants to truly hold the North, he needs to leave the weirwoods and especially the heart trees alone.

Stannis is indeed changing since the start of the books where he was on dragonstone sulking. He is turning out to being the only true king in all the proceedings. I dont think he will accept any new lands in the North, His main goal is the Iron throne, and the only person I see him giving up this ambition for is Jon who he has a grudging liking for and respect. In light of such an outcome he would retake the stormlands, for if ever a northern army does come south under stark or Stannis banners the stormlands must also be retaken. Alternatively If Stannis lives the only other position I can see him taking is the 1000th LC.

Stannis is not a good king. In his own way, he's as mad and tyrannical as King Aerys was. He runs roughshod over his people, he has very little concept of forgiveness and mercy, and his personality is as warm and attractive as the Wall. The only person that honestly likes Stannis is, I think, Davos Seaworth, and I'm firm in my belief that there's something wrong with him. If I smuggled food in to a besieged castle under Redwyne noses only to have the lord of said castle turn around and chop off my fingers for smuggling, well... Let's just say I wouldn't respect him quite as much as Davos seems to. That being said, Stannis is the rightful heir to the Baratheon throne (rightful heir to the throne is debatable, since Robert seized it from the Targaryens, and Aegon/Daenerys have a much firmer claim in that respect.), and people know him to be a man of his word, which are some of the few things going for him.

Edit: The Redwynes had Storm's End under siege, not the Lannisters.

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Since many of the noble families of the North have the blood of the First Men and follow the Old Gods, I'd say that it isn't so much a crime as it is something that will piss Northmen off to no extent. We've seen with the Dothraki that casting down symbols of other cultures' gods is a sign of ultimate disrespect; if Stannis wants to truly hold the North, he needs to leave the weirwoods and especially the heart trees alone.

Stannis is not a good king. In his own way, he's as mad and tyrannical as King Aerys was. He runs roughshod over his people, he has very little concept of forgiveness and mercy, and his personality is as warm and attractive as the Wall. The only person that honestly likes Stannis is, I think, Davos Seaworth, and I'm firm in my belief that there's something wrong with him. If I smuggled food in to a besieged castle under Redwyne noses only to have the lord of said castle turn around and chop off my fingers for smuggling, well... Let's just say I wouldn't respect him quite as much as Davos seems to. That being said, Stannis is the rightful heir to the Baratheon throne (rightful heir to the throne is debatable, since Robert seized it from the Targaryens, and Aegon/Daenerys have a much firmer claim in that respect.), and people know him to be a man of his word, which are some of the few things going for him.

Edit: The Redwynes had Storm's End under siege, not the Lannisters.

There is nothing wrong with Davos, do you honestly think that one great act washes away a life of crime? Stannis didn't chop off Dovos's fingertips for smuggling in food to Storms End, it was for smuggling his whole life. Davos is completely rational when he thinks Stannis was more than just with him, and when he thinks losing a few fingertips was better than he deserved. I love how you forget to mention that Stannis also raised Davos to Knighthood, so Davos went from a low borne smuggler, to a Knight in the service of a great Lord. Had Stannis not known how to show mercy, then he would have hanged Davos, instead of shortening four fingers. If I were Davos I would have counted myself lucky as hell, that Stannis was merciful(wich what do you know, Davos does count himself lucky)

Saying Stannis is as mad as Aerys Targaryen, is one of the most ridicules things I have ever read on these forums. Everybody switches sides like they switch lanes on the highway, when ever there is personal gain in it for them, and Stannis doesn't tolerate this and he must be "mad"? Stannis castrated men who rape women and he isn't forgiving enough? Please tell me when Stannis should have been more forgiving?

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GRRM has placed Asha & Theon in a very interesting bind with the situation in the spoiler chapter.

On one hand there is the issue that having Theon would greatly help Asha contest the result of the King's Moot. Note however even with him dead she still could contest it on the grounds the whole thing was illegal anyway as under Westerosi law she comes before her uncles, still having Theon would allow her to contest the King's Moot without riding roughshod over Ironborn tradition. On the other hand in her chapters with Stannis she has become increasingly aware that he is the main reason she hasn't either been lynched by some of the Northmen or burnt by the Rhlorites yet. Add to that Asha has already had a taste of what Ramsey is capable of in his letter to her at Deepwood Moote and that currently neither her nor Theon are really in any state to run, you can imagine Stannis winning the next battle and surviving is arguably more immediately important to her as well making her current somewhat weak position beside him more secure.

To do that Stannis needs to bind his army together and right now the Northern part of it is screaming for Theon's blood. Asha is pragmatic enough to know a sacrifice needs to made and that there is an advantage to be gained in being the one prepared to offer it, There may also be something else far more profound going on that may well allow Asha to keep both her brother and her protector... listen to the ravens!

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Mel needs her powders and potions. i think Mel is about to be exposed as a fraud and this Rhillor is a false God. Stannis is too practical to face a clear reality and not correct himself. Of course he would by proud about how he does it but nobody is perfect.

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the power of fire has surely been seen to be real? the shadow, the fire images and yon chappy out east impressing Victarion, there is power in fire for sure, and the whole fire versus ice thing - well remove that and what are we doing here?! This is a song of ice and fire, which to me means an interplay between the virtues and drawbacks of each, in epic back and forth song. Stannis has shown himself to be righteous if nothing else, I think his possible withdrawal from Melissandre and R'hllor only demonstrates his distaste for extremes and fanaticism, which in a way kinda answers the question set here... yes he is becoming a north-man, if he wasn't one from the beginning anyway.

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