84 replies to this topic

[Winterfell is Burning]

QuaitheTheShadow, on 03 May 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Ramsay has no motive to lie to Jon about Stannis losing the battle. If Stannis didn't lose, why would Ramsay want to drawn more enemies into Winterfell and make it an even harder seige? That doesn't make sense.

The letter is clearly not a carefully thought move. It's an act of desperation. If the Boltons defeated Stannis, then they already consolidated their power in the North at least for the time being, and Roose would never allow a letter like this to be sent, to draw Ned Stark's last alive son (even if it is as bastard) and NW commander to then.

Plus, we know that Manderly will betray the Freys, and in the TWOW chapter we see that the Bolton's best chance of victory (Karstark treachery) has already been discovered.

[Babeldygob]

Watching the season 2 series only reinforces this idea to me.

Before season 2 I didn't really buy into the Stannis Night's King idea, but now I really think this is going to happen.

As you may or may not know, the tv-show writers know how it all turns out in the end. The Stannis Baratheon/Melisandre theme music is sooooooo damn ominous and mysterious and tragic that it really sweeps me away and I'm loving Stannis'tragedy again. I'm really moved by the music and I think it shows that eventually somethign tragic is bound to happen with Stannis.

Listen to this while you're reading a Stannis chapter: https://www.youtube....feature=related

Edited by Babeldygob, 09 May 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[kwvapor]

Babeldygob, on 09 May 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Watching the season 2 series only reinforces this idea to me.

Before season 2 I didn't really buy into the Stannis Night's King idea, but now I really think this is going to happen.

As you may or may not know, the tv-show writers know how it all turns out in the end. The Stannis Baratheon/Melisandre theme music is sooooooo damn ominous and mysterious and tragic that it really sweeps me away and I'm loving Stannis'tragedy again. I'm really moved by the music and I think it shows that eventually somethign tragic is bound to happen with Stannis.

Listen to this while you're reading a Stannis chapter: https://www.youtube....feature=related

That's news to me...the TV people know the ending?  That means, by watching the show we may get insights the book has not revealed by the TV's emphasis or lack of ...

For example TV right now has too much screen time for LF, is that a sign?

Edited by Censored Wolf, 09 May 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[Lordtoofat2sitAthrone]

Censored Wolf, on 09 May 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

That's news to me...the TV people know the ending?  That means, by watching the show we may get insights the book has not revealed by the TV's emphasis or lack of ...

For example TV right now has too much screen time for LF, is that a sign?

I was under the impression that the showrunners not so much know the ending, but know the broadstrokes.  But that can change as GRRM writes, you know?  He tries something, it doesn't work, he throws it out.  For the HBO peeps it's kind of a failsafe so if (who am I kidding) when the tv show catches up with the books, they aren't stuck stagnating.

I don't think so.  Remember they have to show characters that aren't neccasarily in pov's for example Robb.  If Robb fell off the face of Westeros, and was only alluded to, I think some out there who can't be bothered to read the novels (shame!) may feel confused/disappointed.  Imo there's a balancing act between being told vs being shown, and that can be difficult to translate onto tv.  LF with Margaery after Renly's death, and now LF with Tywinn, in retrospect to the casual viewer, when Tywinn shows up with the Tyrell's at TBoBB, it's not being pulled out of thin air.

That being said I think Aiden Gillen and Varys (Conleth Hill) give wonderful performances.  I loved their scenes in s1.  I certainly hope to see more of them in the future.

[Jory]

I wouldn't be so sure of the series indicating anything re: the novels, and here's why: look at how they are portraying Littlefinger, and then look at how the books are portraying Littlefinger. Do you see a difference? Yeah, me too - basically one so big that it's almost inconceivable that they are the same character. The same is less true with Stannis, but enough so that it's clear the showrunners don't really get the character. They're playing him almost exactly to type: cold, "lawful neutral", etc. This makes him boring as hell.

[Oli]

Stannis goes for the Iron Throne only because he believes he is his brother's heir. He does not care about the North, it is just  it is a part of the realm. The realm as it was when his brother died.
As to him becoming a man of the Watch. At first I did not buy the idea, but then I realized that if there was anyone with a better claim than his (no matter who that might be) his sense of just would probably dictate him to take black as he "murdered" his brother after all.

[baxus]

but why would anyone have a better claim than stannis in his own eyes?
his brother was the king before him, left no trueborn heirs, so stannis is the heir.
it is of no consequence that daenerys or aegon appear in westeros, they are heirs of previous dynasty so stannis would not consider them worthy.

[Harle The Handsome]

kazad, on 27 February 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

Theon won't die he will be taken to the heart trees, but some how he will survive. GRRM has constantly since the Kings Moot been repeating that there is only one way a Kings Moot can be over turned. The precedence case is where the son of the king was off far a away when is father was away and a Kings Moot was held without him, on his return the King that was crowned was murdered and he was crowned in his place. Essentially Theon is needed to overthrow Euron, I don't feel GRRM would mention it so much just to take Theon's head off.

Why is there this fascination with overturning the Kingsmoot?  Oh, we need Theon...why overturn a kingsmoot when dead king = new kingsmoot?

[Dawn Age]

I am curious on how Stannis looked like he was about to break from ADWD to having more confidence than anyone. I think he is looking to The Old Gods of the North for help. Stannis is probably more Northman like than the South.

If he takes Winterfell he will win the North. I doubt the loyalty of all of Bolton's bannermen, even the Dustin's. If Stannis's forces were able to defeat the Frey/Bolton force, the remaining Northmen will turn on the Boltons and hand over Winterfell to Stannis.

I am not sure what he will do with Mance Rayder. If Tormound shows up with his Wildlings he might need Mance alive.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Stannis might change his mind on who is worthy when the dragons come. But I think he'll be dead before that. Its hard to say though. I always grit my teeth with stannis cause I just feel his loss of light. He is a shadow of the man he once was.

[cold-king1990]

i havnt given it much consideration before, but he certainly does seem invigorated in the gift chapter and it would be fitting to give him the dreadfort! I like it

[Tall-Talker]

I don’t necessarily think he’s becoming a Northman. He just needs the Northmen.

In my opinion the reason he is going to behead Theon in front of the weirwood is because Asha called him out on that by reminding him that that is how Eddard Stark dealt with turncloaks. Theon is charged with killing the Stark kids. If Stannis were to give him to the flames in a camp full of Northmen that would be a bad move. What better way to cement yourself more to the Northmen than following the traditions of the First Men.

As to Stannis being reinvigorated let us see how long that last. Assuming the pink letter is fake and Stannis was not defeated, he will soon find out Jon was attacked,the deal between the R’hllor knights and Wun Wun, some NW mutinied against the LC, Aegon has landed in Westeros, and maybe the Others will finally making make their push south (if Stannis is still alive when that happens).

Unless Stannis is the military genius of his time the only way I can see him winning the North is by Bran revealing himself as an Old God and Jon being resurrected (if dead).

Edited by Tall-Talker, 14 September 2012 - 11:31 AM.

[David C. Hunter]

Tall-Talker, on 14 September 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I don’t necessarily think he’s becoming a Northman. He just needs the Northmen.

In my opinion the reason he is going to behead Theon in front of the weirwood is because Asha called him out on that by reminding him that that is how Eddard Stark dealt with turncloaks. Theon is charged with killing the Stark kids. If Stannis were to give him to the flames in a camp full of Northmen that would be a bad move. What better way to cement yourself more to the Northmen than following the traditions of the First Men.

As to Stannis being reinvigorated let us see how long that last. Assuming the pink letter is fake and Stannis was not defeated, he will soon find out Jon was attacked,the deal between the R’hllor knights and Wun Wun, some NW mutinied against the LC, Aegon has landed in Westeros, and maybe the Others will finally making make their push south (if Stannis is still alive when that happens).

Unless Stannis is the military genius of his time the only way I can see him winning the North is by Bran revealing himself as an Old God and Jon being resurrected (if dead).

I just hope Stannis survives the Ordeal. I dont buy into the idea that Asha is trying to sneak Theon away. She can barely walk, surrounded by 5-6000 Stannis' men, surrounded in a blizzard, ready to be attacked by Ramsay, is nowhere near the sea and has no food.

No she simply is trying to make Theon's transition easier. However, Bran could possibly save Theon if it is a apart of his agenda. Theon is a Prince who will be sacrificed before a heart tree. In the last Bran chapter the last vision he has is a sacrifice before a heart tree. The chapter ends before we know what happens, but it must be something significant.

[The Sunset King]

If some kind of strange/supernatural event does occur at the weirwood near the battle location, there will almost certainly not be any further burning of weirwoods.  Their value to all present will have become clearly established.

Edited by The Sunset King, 14 September 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

I thought bran's vision was in the past. and didn't the female open his throat for the sacrifice then he tasted blood. I mean it could of been theon but that was awhile before we get to the new chapter.

[houseHB]

Stannis will be lord regent of the North for Rickon, then marry Rickon to Shireen uniting the North and South and Rickon becoming King

[David C. Hunter]

The Sunset King, on 14 September 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

If some kind of strange/supernatural event does occur at the weirwood near the battle location, there will almost certainly not be any further burning of weirwoods.  Their value to all present will have become clearly established.

Thats also my point. If Bran makes his powers or the Olds Gods powers known to Stannis then essentially Stannis and his men will drop the Lord of Light. IMO they will essentially be Northmen. Which is great.

I think House Manderly has a closer shot of being Regents to Winterfell for Rickon though instead of the Summer Lords. But the North may declare for Stannis. This all depends on what Jon Snow does

[JP Dayne]

he'll be the 1000th LC of the NW after they defeat the others. it is known.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

It is not known.
I also don't see stannis having an enlightenment and turning to the old gods. He was never a godly man before melisandre. She changed thatt. And stannis is not one to turn his back on something. He'll fight to the last man. So what could bran do? Make the tree's leaves rustle? Or a whisper on the wind? It seems unlikely that stannis will have another religious epiphany.

[UnbentFury]

sinphonus, on 03 March 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

Stannis did not change gods even once, when he sends Davos under Storm's End to kill Ser Cortnay Penrose he also tells him that he believes in no gods since the day he saw his parent's ship sink in front of Storm's End

I seriously don't get why people don't seem to grasp this simple and glaringly obvious concept whenever they talk about Stannis. It seemed to me that Stannis was using Melisandre(whatever is working for him y'know?) and not the other way around.