69 replies to this topic

[Apple Martini]

Bayard, on 23 February 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

Damn I forgot..... you people need to think of something. How many cats older than 20 years do you know???? I think it's impossible to be Raenys' cat.... I agree it fits the story, but that's not enough. Maybe it's one of his kittens

The cat was a kitten when Rhaenys died and as such would be about 17-18 years old now, not "older than 20 years." It's old, but that age is not impossible at all for a cat, many of whom can live past 20.

[FanTasy]

Val the Wildling Princess, on 23 February 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

cat can go unnoticed easier than a person, hide in places where a person cannot and thus hear/see things that a person could not.

So can Varys' informants.
No one a hunch why Bloodraven is supposed to lurk and listen, other than that he is supposed to be able to do it so he does it?

[Lykos]

The bad old tomcat, Arya is chasing, is missing an ear.  When Arya cought him, she kissed him between the eyes.  One of the eyes still could be bunged.
If BR warged that cat, he did it to watch Ned.  As he said to Bran he watched the birth of his father and his birth, but that was through a weirwood.  I think BR is beyond the trivial squabbling of KL, and he wouldn´t search out a cat he never met.
I like to think that the cat has retained some of Rhaenys´ resistance.  But I don´t think she warged into it.  She named the cat Balerion "the black Dread", so I think GRRM uses the cat as an omen and that doesn´t bode well for Tommen.


Edit for grammar

Edited by Lykos, 23 February 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[Apple Martini]

FanTasy, on 23 February 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

No one a hunch why Bloodraven is supposed to lurk and listen, other than that he is supposed to be able to do it so he does it?

Why wouldn't he? He's an ex-Hand of the King and part of the old royal family. He still keeps tabs on the Night's Watch, why not the capital, too?

Lykos, on 23 February 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

The bad old tomcat, Arya is chasing, is missing an ear.  When Arya catched him, she kissed him between the eyes.  One of the eyes still could be bunged.

The Wiki specifically mentions an eye missing and not an ear. The Wiki could be wrong or the cat could be missing both, but I'm just saying.

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I think BR is beyond the trivial squabbling of KL, and he wouldn´t search out a cat he never met.

Except that what happens in the capital has other implications, and the Sack affected members of Bloodraven's family.

Edited by Apple Martini, 23 February 2012 - 12:06 PM.

[FanTasy]

Apple Martini, on 23 February 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Why wouldn't he? He's an ex-Hand of the King and part of the old royal family. He still keeps tabs on the Night's Watch, why not the capital, too?

Good question, but I take it that his motives remain a mysteruy.
I don't want to nag, I'm genuinely interested in what could be the motive of Bloodraven, why the Children of the Forest facilitate him in his lurking and spying.
Does he want to save the world from evil? What other goal could he - or they - have?
And why was Bran summoned to take his place?

ETA But this is off topic - and something for a Bloodraven thread. Sorry!

Edited by FanTasy, 23 February 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[Apple Martini]

FanTasy, on 23 February 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

Good question, but I take it that his motives remain a mysteruy.
I don't want to nag, I'm genuinely interested in what could be the motive of Bloodraven, why the Children of the Forest facilitate him in his lurking and spying.
Does he want to save the world from evil? What other goal could he - or they - have?
And why was Bran summoned to take his place?

I think Bran was summoned to replace him. I also think that he's fundamentally good and interested in overall "rightness," but I don't think that means he wouldn't have an interest in looking in on the government.

[Nev yn]

Quote

The Wiki specifically mentions an eye missing and not an ear. The Wiki could be wrong or the cat could be missing both, but I'm just saying.

Fan wikis are totally not known for fudging facts to support individual theories, of course :-).  In the books, the cat consistently has his torn ear referred to.  Not anything wrong with his eye(s).

[Lykos]

@Apple Martini
Yes, I can see BR watching over Rhaegars children and that would make Rhaenys´ kitten a plausible option.

Not only might the Wiki be wrong, GRRM apparently changed Renlys´eye coulor from green to blue in the books (unless you say blue eyes match green clothes). If he changed the cats look from missing ear to missing eye, it would be a major hint to a BR connection.

Edited by Lykos, 23 February 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[Apple Martini]

Nev yn, on 23 February 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Fan wikis are totally not known for fudging facts to support individual theories, of course :-).  In the books, the cat consistently has his torn ear referred to.  Not anything wrong with his eye(s).

I stand corrected (and I DID say that the Wiki could be wrong). That still doesn't mean he can't be being warged.

Edited by Apple Martini, 23 February 2012 - 12:54 PM.

[Cozur]

I think the rat that Theon eats in ADWD is actually the warged Rhaegar.

It totally squirms when he bites it, WHICH IS WHAT RHAEGAR WOULD DO!

[Lykos]

@Cozur
Did it have a silver harp?

[Nev yn]

Quote

That still doesn't mean he can't be being warged.

Oh, I think he probably is.  It's just always fun to have a go at wikis in situations like that.  The asoiaf one is pretty good when it comes to that sort of thing, but clearly not immune :-).  I wasn't trying to rub your nose in it personally or anything, just corroborating the other poster's statement.

Edited by Nev yn, 23 February 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[Apple Martini]

Nev yn, on 23 February 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Oh, I think he probably is.  It's just always fun to have a go at wikis in situations like that.  The asoiaf one is pretty good when it comes to that sort of thing, but clearly not immune :-).  I wasn't trying to rub your nose in it personally or anything, just corroborating the other poster's statement.

I wish I had my books on me. I SWEAR at one point, it's said that the cat is missing an eye.

[Bayard]

Apple Martini, on 23 February 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

The cat was a kitten when Rhaenys died and as such would be about 17-18 years old now, not "older than 20 years." It's old, but that age is not impossible at all for a cat, many of whom can live past 20.

Maybe, when they live in a home, they constant care, food, whatever they want.... not in the "wild". I tell from experience. I live in a city (which will go unnamed), where we have almost 100.000 dogs on the streets, a huge problem for us, but we get to know stuff about them . A dog can live 20 years in a home, but the medium life span on the streets, where they have to survive winters, and the lack of food is 5 years, and the maximum 10. Why would it be different for a cat????

Anyway, as people have said.... by warging it's possible for its lifespan to be a lot longer. Problem solved

[Nev yn]

Quote

I SWEAR at one point, it's said that the cat is missing an eye.

Before or after someone mentioned it in a Bloodraven thread or you might have glossed over it in the wiki?  Memory is a wonderfully malleable thing :-).  I'm not saying it never was mentioned, but I don't recall reading it from the books and a search for likely terms in Google Books for all five books isn't turning anything up (searching for terms can pull up pages that "aren't in this preview", even if you can't view the entire page).

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

FanTasy, on 23 February 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

I am curious, what is the plot sense? What could be Bloodravens goal in monitoring what happens in Kings Landing? What does he want to achieve?

it actually seems like a really good idea. they mention that cats are almost as plentiful as rats, and a cat could come and go as it pleases. and the variety of places around that castle that it is  seen makes me think its not just an ordinary cat wandering, but bloodraven walking it around.

[Apple Martini]

Bayard, on 23 February 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Maybe, when they live in a home, they constant care, food, whatever they want.... not in the "wild". I tell from experience. I live in a city (which will go unnamed), where we have almost 100.000 dogs on the streets, a huge problem for us, but we get to know stuff about them . A dog can live 20 years in a home, but the medium life span on the streets, where they have to survive winters, and the lack of food is 5 years, and the maximum 10. Why would it be different for a cat????

Cats are not dogs. You can't say "well dogs are this way" and then apply that to cats. Cats are much more independent and self-sufficient, and they can turn feral very quickly. A cat living in a secure castle, with temperate weather, lots of mice and no real predators absolutely could live for quite a long time.

Nev yn, on 23 February 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

Before or after someone mentioned it in a Bloodraven thread or you might have glossed over it in the wiki?  Memory is a wonderfully malleable thing :-).  I'm not saying it never was mentioned, but I don't recall reading it from the books and a search for likely terms in Google Books for all five books isn't turning anything up (searching for terms can pull up pages that "aren't in this preview", even if you can't view the entire page).

The Wiki specifically calls him a "one-eyed cat," I just looked at it again, but they don't cite the reference. And yes, I thought he had one eye before someone mentioned it on here, they just jogged the memory. I believe it's been brought up as a possible hint of a Bloodraven connection before.

Edited by Apple Martini, 23 February 2012 - 02:25 PM.

[Nev yn]

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The Wiki specifically calls him a "one-eyed cat," I just looked at it again, but they don't cite the reference.

I wasn't doubting your word on what the wiki contained :-).

Quote

I thought he had one eye before someone mentioned it on here, they just jogged the memory. I believe it's been brought up as a possible hint of a Bloodraven connection before.

That's actually exactly what I was suggesting, that someone mentioned it that way before as a Bloodraven hint and now you have your mind tricking you into thinking you remember it from the books.  This happens with all sorts of fan theories in different fandoms -- it's really easy to see someone say something that sounds like it's from the books, and then it perpetuates, with nobody going back and checking that it wasn't actually the way it was characterized before everyone took the ball and ran with it.  I could be wrong on this one, but I doubt it.

[gramblor]

I'm going to say it is absolutely NOT Rhaenys:

• This cat seems to hate Lannisters. Rhaenys would have pretty good reasons to hate Lannisters.The cat seemed to hate everyone, not just the Lannisters. It gave Arya plenty of scratches and a good struggle when she was trying to catch it.
  
• Targaryens are able to ride dragons because they have a warg like bond with them. No where in the books is this statement made. It can be assumed that "warging" would allow a rider to tame a dragon, but other means have been shown (dragon horn that Euron had) that could lead to dragon taming.
  
• We've seen that skinchangers can warg into an animal upon death. So far in the entire series of ASOIAF, the only Targ that we know has the ability to skinchage is BloodRaven. Rhaenys was also 3-4 when she died, which makes me think she wasn't some superpowered Warg wizard...
  
• GRRM keeps bringing attention back to this cat. The only other animal that gets this much air time are warged wolves; there must be a reason the cat gets so much attention. I think GRRM does this because it serves as a constant reminder for what has happened.

Edited by gramblor, 23 February 2012 - 03:22 PM.

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

Bugger, sick off work and just went through the book and established the cat is in fact missing an ear not an eye as pointed out above. Ah well, perhaps there is some wise one eared warger im forgetting