267 replies to this topic

[A Shadow]

I came up with my first real theory and did not find anyone discussing it. I can be a fool, but I think Euron paid the Faceless Men with the dragon egg he claims to have thrown away "in one of the dark moods".

We know that it is very costly to hire a Faceless Man, especially if the victim is an important person. In the previous books it was said that to send a FM after Daenerys, when she was still a girl and not even a khaleesi, would have been the same as to hire an army. It was also mentioned that one dragon egg is enough to hire a fleet of ships.

Balon was the lord of the Iron islands and at war for the position of the king. So a dragon egg could just about meet the price for his head.

The last we heard of Jaqen H'Ghar, he was infiltrating the Citadel. And Tyrion has said that the only surviving copy of the book "The Death of the Dragons" was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel. It is named "The Death of the Dragons", but it can be generally about dragons including information how to hatch them.

I admit not knowing how exactly would the FM plan to use a dragon that use being relevant to the plot.

EDIT: redriver wants it to be known that he thinks he came up with this theory (and I stole it).

Edited by A Free Shadow, 23 February 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[The Drunkard]

Nah, you're not a fool, it seems like a pretty legit theory.

[Arkash]

That is my main theory too.

[_Oberyn_]

Could well be.

[Lady Blackfyre]

I like this, but there's one thing I find a little odd. Why would Euron mention the egg to Victarion at all? Just to gloat? Haven't he thought that his "I threw it in the sea" could raise suspicion? Or maybe it is because he thinks Victarion to be so stupid as to believe everything he says? (which, from what we've seen so far, wouldn't be so absurd, I guess)

[A Shadow]

Arkash, on 23 February 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

That is my main theory too.

Hah

How would the FM use a dragon though?

[A Shadow]

LadyBlackfyre, on 23 February 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I like this, but there's one thing I find a little odd. Why would Euron mention the egg to Victarion at all? Just to gloat? Haven't he thought that his "I threw it in the sea" could raise suspicion? Or maybe it is because he thinks Victarion to be so stupid as to believe everything he says? (which, from what we've seen so far, wouldn't be so absurd, I guess)

He told him about the egg right after he became disillusioned with his army.

Euron: “I had forgotten what a small and noisy folk they are, my ironborn. I would bring them dragons, and they shout out for grapes.”

So it would be only fitting for him to reflect on how he "threw away" a dragon egg to off Balon and take his place. Just to get an army which is not willing to go anywhere. Oh, and Balon was thrown into the sea himself

Edited by A Free Shadow, 23 February 2012 - 09:22 AM.

[Apple Martini]

I'm ashamed to admit that I hadn't thought of this before, but it makes total sense. I never really believed that Euron threw it away -- it was too valuable, even if you're in a fit -- but didn't really stop to think about what else he would have done with it.

We know the Faceless Men/Braavosis don't care for dragons or Valyrians, and I know a lot of people think that Jaqen got into the Citadel to steal "The Death of Dragons" to learn how to kill them or at least find weaknesses in Dany's dragons. But maybe they also want to know how to hatch one.

Good job.

Edited by Apple Martini, 23 February 2012 - 03:28 PM.

[A Shadow]

Thank you very much

[Warhammer]

A Free Shadow, on 23 February 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Hah

How would the FM use a dragon though?

I think a dragon would be a perfect FM weapon.  Dragons burn and eat people, so someone winding up as dragon chow (when this is natural dragon behavior) seems quite reasonable.

Especially if you want Dany killed... What better way to make something look accidental than killing someone with their own "pet".

[Winter's Lady]

A Free Shadow, on 23 February 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Hah

How would the FM use a dragon though?

Who says they'd hatch it?   Guess they could trade it and make good money from it. A faceless man has to eat, too! Or..do they?

Nah, they'd totally train it to be their super assassin.

[Really old griff]

Warhammer, on 23 February 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

I think a dragon would be a perfect FM weapon.  Dragons burn and eat people, so someone winding up as dragon chow (when this is natural dragon behavior) seems quite reasonable.

Especially if you want Dany killed... What better way to make something look accidental than killing someone with their own "pet".

nah, dragons would be the worst weapon imaginable for the FM. People will tend to notice a dragon.
And since it would have its own unique colour it would be quite like putting a sign next to the corpse saying "hello, this person was killed by the faceless men". Not their MO, since all their victims so far look like accidents to outsiders.
Add to that the obvious potential for collatioral damage which does not sit well with their religious beliefs and the question of where you keep the damn thing and you have the three things that would ruin any guild of assassins.



EDIT: @OP, Good theory, I missed it completely

Edited by Really old griff, 23 February 2012 - 09:44 AM.

[Dacie]

I agree. Great theory. Maybe they think that if the 'enemy' has dragons, they need one, too. Fight fire with fire, so to speak.

[Doran II]

Well, here's my question to this theory, is giving the egg to the FM a sacrifice for Euron?

I mean, does Euron himself feels like a sacrifice?

Because to me, that's the price the FM charge.

[alienarea]

A Free Shadow, on 23 February 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

I came up with my first real theory and did not find anyone discussing it. I can be a fool, but I think Euron paid the Faceless Men with the dragon egg he claims to have thrown away "in one of the dark moods".

We know that it is very costly to hire a Faceless Man, especially if the victim is an important person. In the previous books it was said that to send a FM after Daenerys, when she was still a girl and not even a khaleesi, would have been the same as to hire an army. It was also mentioned that one dragon egg is enough to hire a fleet of ships.

Balon was the lord of the Iron islands and at war for the position of the king. So a dragon egg could just about meet the price for his head.

The last we heard of Jaqen H'Ghar, he was infiltrating the Citadel. And Tyrion has said that the only surviving copy of the book "The Death of the Dragons" was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel. It is named "The Death of the Dragons", but it can be generally about dragons including information how to hatch them.

I admit not knowing how exactly would the FM plan to use a dragon that use being relevant to the plot.

Apple Martini, on 23 February 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

I'm ashamed to admit that I hadn't thought of this before, but it makes total sense. I never really believed that Euron threw it away -- it was too valuable, even if you're in a fit -- but didn't really stop to think about what else he would have done with it.

We know the Faceless Men/Braavosis don't care for dragons or Valyrians, and I know a lot of people think that Jaqen got into the Citadel to steal "The Death of Dragons" to learn how to kill them or at least find weaknesses in Dany dragons. But maybe they also want to know how to hatch one.

Good job.

Agreed, but it too straightforward. No secret Targaryens or at least baby-swapping involved,

Lady of Oldcastle, on 23 February 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

Who says they'd hatch it?   Guess they could trade it and make good money from it. A faceless man has to eat, too! Or..do they?

Nah, they'd totally train it to be their super assassin.

A faceless dragon?

[Apple Martini]

Doran II, on 23 February 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Well, here's my question to this theory, is giving the egg to the FM a sacrifice for Euron?

I mean, does Euron himself feels like a sacrifice?

Because to me, that's the price the FM charge.

He could very well have paid the dragon egg and something else. The guy mentioned to Arya gave two-thirds of his wealth and his daughter. The dragon's egg could be considered "wealth," and Euron may also have had to give something else.

[Winter's Lady]

alienarea, on 23 February 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

A faceless dragon?

Sure, it could change its color, to keep everyone guessing.
And thinking about it, what better way to get rid of people than to make them disappear "into thin air" (read: carried away and eaten by dragon) I like this theory, although it wasn't really a sacrifice for Euron to give up the egg, I guess. But every good theory needs a hole somewhere, right?

Edited by Lady of Oldcastle, 23 February 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[Light a wight tonight]

I thought that the Faceless Men had enough money, and that their services were purchased through sacrifice of something the client held dear. FM-ism is a religious cult, not a business. They give the "gift" of death. What was the dragon egg to Euron? He's not a Targareyn; dragons aren't part of his heritage so giving the egg up isn't really meaningful to him.

Not saying he didn't exchange the egg with someone for something, but the FMs don't fit the equation.

Edit: I see that Doran II brought this up while I was typing.

Edited by Light a wight tonight, 23 February 2012 - 09:56 AM.

[Roose Seal]

Apple Martini, on 23 February 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

He could very well have paid the dragon egg and something else. The guy mentioned to Arya gave two-thirds of his wealth and his daughter. The dragon's egg could be considered "wealth," and Euron may also have had to give something else.

Or maybe he gave away part of his wealth and the 'something else' was precisely the dragon egg. Euron is shown to have amassed considerable amounts of treasure on his journey, probably worth more than the dragon egg, so he wouldn't consider the dragon egg as part of his wealth. However, considering his ambitions, having a dragon could've helped him the way no amount of gold could, so it'd make sense that the FM should ask for him to hand it over as payment.

His "throwing it in the water in a fit of rage" story seems really silly.. so maybe he never even had an egg to begin with, or he had to give it away.

[Apple Martini]

Light a wight tonight, on 23 February 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

I thought that the Faceless Men had enough money, and that their services were purchased through sacrifice of something the client held dear. FM-ism is a religious cult, not a business. They give the "gift" of death. What was the dragon egg to Euron? He's not a Targareyn; dragons aren't part of his heritage so giving the egg up isn't really meaningful to him.

Not saying he didn't exchange the egg with someone for something, but the FMs don't fit the equation.

Like I said, the Kindly Old Man tells Arya about a man who hired the Faceless Men who had to give up two-thirds of his wealth and his daughter. And Littlefinger talks about the financial cost of hiring one to kill Dany. It looks like they want wealth and something dear. The dragon's egg could function as the "wealth" part of Euron's payment, or the personal sacrifice.

There's also a Gift of the Magi angle here. With a dragon's egg, Euron could theoretically display the wealth, status and power necessary to rule the ironborn. Kind of fitting if the Faceless Men had him fork over that status symbol in exchange for killing the previous ruler. The thing that would make Euron a compelling choice as a ruler had to be given up in exchange for giving him the chance to stake a claim to rule.

Finally it sort of explains why he had the dragon horn -- he thought he might eventually get the chance to try it. Maybe the plan was to take the horn and egg to the Iron Islands and try to hatch the dragon (he talks about bringing them dragons). That the Faceless Men would ask for the egg in payment sort of fits their MO. Without his egg, he's free to give the horn to Victarion to try to use it to bind Dany's dragons.

Edited by Apple Martini, 23 February 2012 - 10:04 AM.