73 replies to this topic

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Turkey Jack, on 24 February 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

That is not answering the question

lol.
yes,
no,
fuck you,
   take your pick

[Apple Martini]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 24 February 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Stannis is bangin her on the reg, no reason to ditch her.
So why in the seven hells would she make up this little act with Leeches?

Your question is answered by the bolded part. As long as he has some reason, no matter how vague, to believe in her power, he'll keep her around. The leeches achieved that, even though, as we keep repeating, there's no good evidence that they had anything to do with the deaths.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 24 February 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

...
Look Mel is 100% down with whatever the fuck she is doing (in the long run), no second thoughts.
Stannis is bangin her on the reg, no reason to ditch her.
So why in the seven hells would she make up this little act with Leeches?

To convince Stannis of the power of king's blood so that she can convince him to let her burn Edric Storm and wake a stone dragon.

[Falrinn]

Apple Martini, on 24 February 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Considering that the plans to kill them were either definitely or highly likely to have been in motion before the leeches, and no one has been able to directly tie the leeches and/or Melisandre to the deaths, I'm gonna say ... yeah.

Agreed. Plus you have to consider if Melisandre's magic is so powerful she can influence events happening on the other side of Westeros, why hasn't she done so again?

Why not just wipe out all 3 of the Lannister children so Stannis is undeniably next in line to the throne by established law?  Why not kill Roose and Ramsey so the armies of Dreadfort are in complete disarray when he attacks Winterfell?

[Nev yn]

Quote

idk? he stubbed his toe? Cat ate some bad mutton? Westerling goes thru labor? Jaime Lannister never sends his regards?

I can't believe nobody else called you on this.  You seriously think Melisandre's great powerful show of blood magic is limited to preventing Robb from stubbing his toe or getting food poisoning?  Or preventing the Faceless Man from finding the Iron Islands, I suppose.  Just how omnipotent would Rahloo have to be to be able to very subtly affect causality this way*?  And this doesn't make you think that hey, maybe you're trying too hard to force her "power" into this situation?


*And if he was that powerful, why bother with all the subterfuge?  Why not just char them to cinders where they stand, to better spread the Glory of the Great Red Rahloo?

Edited by Nev yn, 24 February 2012 - 06:31 PM.

[Stark@heart]

OnionAhaiReborn, on 24 February 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

To convince Stannis of the power of king's blood so that she can convince him to let her burn Edric Storm and wake a stone dragon.

Exactly.  She sees skulls around the other usurpers and uses it to her advantage.   Would they all have died anyway?  Probably.

Falrinn, on 24 February 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Agreed. Plus you have to consider if Melisandre's magic is so powerful she can influence events happening on the other side of Westeros, why hasn't she done so again?

Why not just wipe out all 3 of the Lannister children so Stannis is undeniably next in line to the throne by established law?  Why not kill Roose and Ramsey so the armies of Dreadfort are in complete disarray when he attacks Winterfell?

Really powerful blood magic seems to requires Kings blood, which isn't exactly on tap.  She's not going to waste it.  She needs it to fulfill her goal and wake the stone dragon.  Once she has a dragon she can defeat any army that comes against them.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

OnionAhaiReborn, on 24 February 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

To convince Stannis of the power of king's blood so that she can convince him to let her burn Edric Storm and wake a stone dragon.

Ok, fair enough. I like magic and love more. I doubt that we will ever find out

[Baitac]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 24 February 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Ok, fair enough. I like magic and love more. I doubt that we will ever find out

Don't give up on this! Magic and love are awesome, and great fodder for great storytelling.  Magic is in the eyes of the beholder. You must believe in order for it to be magic versus reality. The reality is that those three kings would have died anyway. The magic part of it is that Stannis went through some sort of ceremony with leeches that was created by Meli so he now believes that this was the cause of these deaths. If instead of leeches, it would be present day, and voodoo dolls were used by Stannis and bad things happened to the three kings, then he would believe that he had something to do with their deaths.  Did the dolls cause the deaths? No, but he thinks they did, and that is all that matters. However, I do not think that Mel is devoid of supernatural powers. I think that Davos, Brienne, and Catelyn would have made solid witnesses that something involving dark magic did, in fact, occur.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Stark@heart, on 24 February 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Exactly. She sees skulls around the other usurpers and uses it to her advantage. Would they all have died anyway? Probably.

Really powerful blood magic seems to requires Kings blood, which isn't exactly on tap. She's not going to waste it. She needs it to fulfill her goal and wake the stone dragon. Once she has a dragon she can defeat any army that comes against them.

Tee hee. Here's one reason why I think R+L =J: it would be very GRRM to have Melisandre, the pretend prophetess, at Castle Black moaning about king's blood and transforming tribesmen into kings and princesses while the person with the best king's blood in Westeros is right in front of her. She can't see it, even when her own damn fire is pointing right at him. Like I said, tee hee. (I can't stand that red bitch.)

[Fire Eater]

Apple Martini, on 24 February 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

Your question is answered by the bolded part. As long as he has some reason, no matter how vague, to believe in her power, he'll keep her around. The leeches achieved that, even though, as we keep repeating, there's no good evidence that they had anything to do with the deaths.

Maybe in a way, those three kings were destined to die, and those leeches didn't cause their deaths but only foretold them. The only people whom the leeches are to cause the deaths are the people who already are going to die soon kind of like, reading your fortune from a card you picked, picking the card doesn't cause an event, but foretells it.

Edited by fireeater22, 25 February 2012 - 12:41 AM.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

why does stannis hesitate so long before saying Robbs name? does that mean anything?

[Jolene Brown]

Rhaegar Targaryen, on 18 July 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

why does stannis hesitate so long before saying Robbs name? does that mean anything?

He knows that one day Jon Snow is going to find about it somehow and go batshit on him?  

[salt]

Rhaegar Targaryen, on 18 July 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

why does stannis hesitate so long before saying Robbs name? does that mean anything?

He probably recognized that Robb's cause was just, to some extent.  Stannis chose his blood over his liege once before, and he would have undestood Robb's motivation.  Not that that would stop him from killing someone he views as treasonous to his kingdom, but he probably didn't think he deserved to die in the way that Joffrey or Balon did.


Also, its pretty clear that Stannis doesn't believe it was the leeches that killed them, even after the other kings are dead.

Quote

“It was the Lord’s wrath that slew him,” Ser Axell Florent declared. “It was the hand of R’hllor!”
“Praise the Lord of Light!” sang out Queen Selyse, a pinched thin hard woman with large ears and a hairy upper lip.
“Is the hand of R’hllor spotted and palsied?” asked Stannis. “This sounds more Walder Frey’s handiwork than any god’s.”

Edited by salt, 18 July 2012 - 09:14 PM.

[Garlan Marius]

The way I see it, this is foreshadowing Stannis setting Roose Bolton on fire.