36 replies to this topic

[K1T]

How come there is always lack of food in night watch, and they march all the way back and forth beyond-the-wall
but Samwell is still fat? I mean, if they have like aprox 2.000 calories per day of their meals but they burn like 5.000 with all the fighting, climbing and marching stuff... he is supposed to be ,like, muscle gorilla juice head like in half a year.

Sorry for my language, English is not my native.

[TheDrawback]

Might be he's got some illness that he doesn't burn callory's that fast and stays fat xD

[TrueMetis]

The only person who thinks about Sam being fat is Sam, a person with crippling self-esteem issues. It's very possible that he isn't fat anymore and just hasn't realized it.

[Ygrette]

There is no illness on this planet that defies the laws of thermodynamics. There are, however, illnesses that make you more hungry and tired and less active, therefore leading to weight gain when people fail to watch their caloric intake. And that's from someone who's suffering from a major hormonal disease that is "supposedly" keeping people from losing weight. Yet I lost fat and am now lean and fit. Most people with that claim simply suck at counting calories (or don't count them at all and only guess their intake).

Okay, so much for that.

I have been wondering the same thing and also believe it is mostly a matter of Sam's self perception. I am sure he weights substantially less now that when he first arrived at Castle Black, but he may still be largely overweight, even if he had been fasting. And I also could imagine that someone like Sam very easily compensates for a large part of his caloric deficit by simply eating a LOT of calorie dense foods (fatty meat and pastries) whenever he gets the chance. I just read the part where he prepares for a couple of days journey and the stuff he lists (hams, sausages, several loaves of bread, etc etc) would be enough to feed a whole garrison.

Additionally what plays a role is here are the standards of Westeros and someone like Sam may not fall into the "morbidly obese" category of people nowadays. The perception of obesity changes with the rising levels of obesity in western cultures and someone who might nowadays be classified as "a little chubby" might have been perceived by the people of Westeros as "fat".

Another little factor may be that the muscles he is building from exercise are very well growing, but you cannot see them under the massive layer of fat, therefore only adding to the impression of a fat person. Many bodybuilders believe they need to eat in a large caloric surplus in order to build lean muscle tissue and only end up looking "bigger" but still less defined. So Sam may still have roughly the same size, yet his body composition (lean body mass versus fat mass) may be leaner now.


But I've been meaning to ask the same, these are the answers I've given myself.

[TheDrawback]

haha was just guessing xD i can eat anything without gaining a single kilo myself so dont know about gaining weight but also the thing on the muscle tissue replacing the fat is really plausible.

[charourou]

The real fasting he's had so far, is when he started marching north to the Fist. (no more night raids in Castleblack's kitchen)
Fat/muscle ratio has changed for sure,
but because of all the discomfort, fear, cold, muscle aching, I don't think he realized or felt that his body is now a little fitter

Edited by charourou, 24 February 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[Mr. E]

I agree that he probably has lost weight, but that doesn't mean he's not still very bulky. If he weighed, oh, 275 pounds when he came to the Wall. His main duties are as a steward, meaning he's not as physically active as, say, Jon. He also still eats a lot of red meat and carbs, simply due to the NW's diet. Meaning the weight's not going to simply fall off of him. So even if he's lost 50 pounds, he would still be 225, and he's not a 6 foot 4 behemoth who looks lean with that kind of weight.

[leniw]

Well that's an interesting point I'v never thought about. Another possible explanation it might be that when Sam came to the Wall was really fat but as he engaged in his duties, he lost weight and lost again as they were heading for the Fist. But because a group of his brothers in the Watch hate him they still call him fat.

[Blangadanger]

I think it's truly tied to self-esteem in this particular case. Sam associates his tiredness, shyness, and lack of courage to his being overweight, and until he changes that perception, he'll always think of himself as grossly overweight. He also thinks that the suffering he feels is much worse than whatever else at the wall feels, but in truth, anyone who's walked for miles in heavy snow with little to no food and the constant threat of horrifying monsters would feel the same as he does. Therefore I think he just doesn't want to admit to himself that he is part of the wall now, that he is stronger than he used to be.

[The Roaring Bear]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sam had some sort of Thyroid issue.  Also, it is a fantasy novel so it could be some other reason that doesn't exist here.

Again, I do agree he probably has lost some weight since being in the NW, but being a steward he doesnt have the intense physical activities that the rangers do, and is probably privy to more food (eating with Maester Aemon and such). I dont think that its just Sam's self perception either since I do believe others reference him as still being fat (though again, probably smaller than he started off)

[House Martell]

Sam is some type of UnDead thing (cold hands...), he is locked into his current physical condition forever, it is known

[Queensmoot]

I've often wondered the same. I assume that he has to have lost at least some weight on the trek from the Fist.

MID - ASOS SPOILERS!

I just read

Spoiler

the chapter with Mormont's death today in my reread. Sam's "I'm not afraid anymore" breaks my heart everytime. Poor Old Bear...

[Leto Atreides]

I think someone who was once fit and then gained weight would lose it pretty fast from a sudden increase of physical activity and lack of food, but Samwell seems morbidly obese. I can't imagine that the adventure north of the wall would be enough to shake off a lot of weight.

[Manberg900]

No one burns 5000 calories in a day lol that's impossible.

[House Martell]

Manberg900, on 25 February 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

No one burns 5000 calories in a day lol that's impossible.

I (in my younger days) did some amateur weight training/body building and would consume around 4,000 calories a day to maintain a decent amount of muscle mass. I'd bet serious soldiers and people who perform constant intense physically demanding activities are up there. 5,000 is a little high (unless the person was like 7 ft tall and 350 lbs of muscle [Gregor?]), but not too crazy, or impossible (although admittedly not typical)

[Euphail]

Manberg900, on 25 February 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

No one burns 5000 calories in a day lol that's impossible.

At his peak Michael Phelps was aiming for 12000 calories a day intake to compensate for his training.

http://sports.yahoo....?urn=oly-100671

[The Roaring Bear]

Manberg900, on 25 February 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

No one burns 5000 calories in a day lol that's impossible.

False.
5,000 is really not a lot to burn in a day, I'm pretty sure in my collegiate wrestling days I burned more.
Also, I read somewhere that lumberjacks back in the early 20th would burn over 10,000 calories per day.

[Ygrette]

Okay, 5000 is entirely possible given the fact that Samwell is a HUGE person. I'm a tiny little thing and can burn up to 3500 a day (*) when I'm working really hard and heavy all day (I run a farm). So if someone like Sam did the same kind of work, 5000 calories may very well be achieveable, though not likely.

Those claims of 10.000-12.000 daily calories, however, are largely exaggerated estimates and have never been confirmed. There have been military studies back in the days where there were no human rights (*coughs*) and they burnt up to 6000 calories. But you have to keep in mind that those people were artificially pushed to the very brink of survival, were kept from sleeping and were forced to keep moving. Not even a lumberjack will burn more than those people.

In the times of the lumberjacks there were no devices to measure caloric expenditure the way people can measure it today (CO2 measurements), so it were estimates and not very accurate ones. Michael Phelps is also not taken very seriously in the science world and his claims are most likely made up, guessed or plain lies to get media attention.

In order to have such a tremendous caloric burn, you will have to be extremely fit and conditioned and this will not be a daily burn, but rather an isolated phenomenon for an especially high day. 4000-5000 calories, however, are a realistic estimate given the fact that Samwell has a lot of body weight to carry around, is not conditioned at all (you burn more when your body isn't used to movement) and according to the stories they have been walking all day and sometimes all night. So 5000 is a realistic estimate.

We cannot, however, say anything about his intake, because we never get accurate amounts and we will most likely only get a desciption of one meal per day, not counting breakfast or sausages he kept in his pockets, or or or... Samwell is most likely used to a very high intake and when he complains about hunger, it doesn't necessarily mean he has been eating little. Just less than he is used to.

So, 5000 calories per day is realistic for Samwell when he was on the road north of the wall. Within Castle Black or when he was mounted, it will not have been that high.

(*) I know my expenditure, because I am wearing a Bodymedia Fit device 24 hours and watch my intake as accurate as possible with food scales, etc. So it's not guesswork.

Edited by Ygrette, 26 February 2012 - 04:55 AM.

[Ygrette]

I just flipped through a couple of modern studies and lumberjacks have an average daily caloric burn of 5000 calories.

[Lord of Cheese]

I cant really remember what kind of food Sam is eating at the wall. If it is fatty food and he leads a sedentary life with the occasional trip ranging, he would loose weight slowly. The portion sizes would be rather small compared to what he would have got at HH.

Sam is fat. really fat. Its not just his self esteem. It will take him a long while to get to a normal weight. How long has he been at the wall so far? idk but it cant be that long.

Otherwise, its a detail that GRRM isnt really paying attention to very much.