177 replies to this topic

[Ice Turtle]

Few people would disagree that he made both good and poor choices, but which were which? How do you rate his reign overall?

Accepting kingship - I think he had a little choice in that. At the time Joffrey was legal heir to the Iron Throne but he was unacceptable for the North.

Sending only Theon to treat with his father - I think that even Ned wouldn't be that naive. A bad move.

His won all his battles but lost the North.  

Beheading Kastark - he should have allowed him to take the black.

Marrying Jeyne - stupid, stupid, stupid thing to do. The only other person I can see doing something similar is Sansa as she was in AGoT.

Probably naming Jon his heir - he was in difficult situation, and was right to think that nor child nor some distant cousin in Vale would do, but he may weaken position of  NW forever.

Overall, it doesn't look so good, but I have to say that he was one of the more competent kings (more able than Joffrey, regent Cersei, Robert, Balon, but probably worse than Renly, Stannis or Mance, truthfully I would put him in the same league as Dany) he was not a great one.

Edited by lazy turtle, 24 February 2012 - 09:01 AM.

[Rapsie]

Robb was a sweet and loyal boy, but a terrible King. Unfortunately he didn't know enough political power play and didn't understand the Game (a lot like Ned).

Marrying Jeyne was really stupid. Not only did he piss off his allies, but technical she was too low born for him.

[WhiteFawn]

I think he had the potential to be a great king. A lot of his faults were because he was so young, naive and tried to rule like he thought his father would, but he was such a good strategist and was supported by so many and had good counsel.
I think when he chose not to bring Jeyne to the Frey Wedding he started showing that he was maturing and understand the way to work with other lords, but overall he wasn't anything spectacular.

[Mr. E]

I thought he would have been a good King, and a good commander, but he made mistakes, just like every single person on Earth, ESPECIALLY when they're sixteen. Unfortunately, he made those mistakes as the supreme commander of an ostensibly rebellion army going up against some of the greatest powers in Westeros. Marrying Jeyne was honorable, but stupid. Sending Theon was a mistake of misplaced trust: he (Robb) simply thought he knew Theon better than he actually did. Beheading Karstark? Meh, it's a coin flip. Either decision would have been okay.

I think Robb did spectacularly well as a leader and a battle strategist; but he is still just sixteen. He's going to make mistakes--problem is, those mistakes were being made in not only wartime, but a wartime when you can't really trust anybody.

[Gurkhal]

Making a good military leader is not the same as making a good king and thus I think that Robb was a bad king. Just because he won some victories but showed little to no talent for playing the political game that he would spend every single day in peace playin means I think it could only end badly.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

He had to execute Karstark. there is no way around that. The two boys he killed were under Robb's protection. Making Lord Rickard take the Black would make him look weak.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Gurkhal, on 24 February 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

Making a good military leader is not the same as making a good king and thus I think that Robb was a bad king. Just because he won some victories but showed little to no talent for playing the political game that he would spend every single day in peace playin means I think it could only end badly.

I agree. He was good as a battle strategist and had the best of intentions but he was bad at politics and made stupid decisiions like marrying Jeyne. In his favour I'll only say that the situation was pretty bad and he was too young and inexperienced.

[The Storm Queen]

I really liked the boy but at the same time I feel now even more staunch in my opinion that 15-year-old never make good leaders, not even in Westeros.
Anyway, I always wondered a bit how much of his military success was really his doing and how much he benefited from the Blackfish and later in political matters from Catelyn. If he would have listened to her and a) not send Theon away b. exchanged Sansa for Jaime and used her to forge a marriage alliance with the Tyrell (or another great house) then the whole story might have ended differently...

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

He did some mistakes but he mostly lost because the Vale chose to not support him, the Ironborn chose to attack the North. Stannis killed Renly and the Tyrrells
went to his archenemies, the Lannisters.

His mistakes made an already bad situation worse and ensured his end. But the Starks and Rob in particular were unlucky. He was also a skilled battle commander but politically inexperienced. I think if he had won he would have made a good King but his negative aspects makes him a dangerous King for his own side while playing a dangerous game of thrones and facing difficult situations.

Considering his advantages I wouldn't call him bad, considering his disadvantages I wouldn't call him good. I guess overall he was average with significant disadvantages for how difficult the game was and some important advantages. In the end he wasn't good enough for the situation and he among others proves how teenagers don't make particularly good kings and have many flaws that leaders should not possess. But I think I might be too hard on him as he was facing a very difficult situation.

Edited by Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren, 24 February 2012 - 09:34 AM.

[Lummel]

All we saw him do was fight.  There's more to being a King than war.  And having gone to war, loosing your ancestral seat and getting murdered by your vassels...well his record doesn't look good.

[Bear Grylls of Skagos]

Robb as a military commander is overrated too. He took Jaime unaware the first time. Jaime is the most overconfident character in the series. Had Robb tried the fake the other way he wouldn't have lived to see another battle. The second victory was because of Grey Wind. The real young wolf.

He was naive and over dramatic and tried to show his power just because he was losing the war by beheading Karstark which was truly unncessary . He fought two rebellions at a time ,one against Joffrey and the other against his mom  by refusing to do anything she suggested.

[Apple Martini]

If he had been older and more experienced, he could have been a great king. By that I mean, he would have been fair and honorable and cared about what happened to his people. Ultimately he made the same sort of mistake that Ned did: He trusted the wrong people. He also should have listened to his mother.

I argue that we never really got to see Robb be a "king" in the day-to-day sense. He was a military commander who had the title of king. He may have been politically tone deaf in many ways, but for pete's sake, it's hard to appease people who are 99% likely looking for any excuse to turn on you. From that perspective, Robb was doomed the day he had to cross the river and was living on borrowed time after. If it hadn't been because of Jeyne, it would've been something else.

[Ashkan Stark]

Even though he made some bad choices but he is still a good king in my mind. But if he supported Stannis in the first place( I remember that Robb himself says that Stannis is the true heir to the Iron Throne) he would have been alive and everything would be a lot different. I think naming himself as The King in the North was his worst move.

[Bear Grylls of Skagos]

He fought two battles. Both against two incompetent war commanders.But it was good for his fans that he died in a wedding or else his unblemished record would have been raped by Tywin with the power of Highgarden to back him. He was slowly turning into a manipulative bastard too considering the way he approached his mother about the subject of Jeyne and then convinced his uncle to marry a girl against his wishes.

Mayhaps it was a blessing, he would have grown up to be Littlefinger.

[Apple Martini]

Ashkan Stark, on 24 February 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Even though he made some bad choices but he is still a good king in my mind. But if he supported Stannis in the first place( I remember that Robb himself says that Stannis is the true heir to the Iron Throne) he would have been alive and everything would be a lot different. I think naming himself as The King in the North was his worst move.

His bannermen named him King in the North. It's not like he stood up and said, "Hai guys I'm totes the king now." He was the king because his bannermen invested him with that authority on their behalf. If anything, he was the only one of the Five Kings who had other people make that step for him, instead of declaring it for himself.

[Ice Turtle]

This thread need some hardcore Robb fans. So far we seem to agree.   It think he may have been a good king if the North stayed isolated and he was older, but even then he would be probably too proud and Cat would want him interfere with the South, so... as I say before I think he is similar to Dany, able to win but unable to utilize the victory, able to conquer but not so good at ruling, sometimes too selfish,  Dany is more politically aware, but Robb was less cruel, more stable  and had better understanding of the culture he lived in.

PS. they both sucks when it come to judging some people.

Edited by lazy turtle, 24 February 2012 - 09:15 AM.

[David Selig]

For me it all goes back to his marriage to Jeyne. A responsible king who actually cares about his subjects simply can't do something like that. There was no political benefit in it at all and a huge drawback. Then there's his desire to fight to the bitter end even after the war was clearly lost. A good king would've tried to get a peace deal after the Tyrell - Lannister alliance and Blackwater, even if it means bending the knee.

[Ashkan Stark]

Apple Martini, on 24 February 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

His bannermen named him King in the North. It's not like he stood up and said, "Hai guys I'm totes the king now." He was the king because his bannermen invested him with that authority on their behalf. If anything, he was the only one of the Five Kings who had other people make that step for him, instead of declaring it for himself.

Robb was their Lord, he could have said no., it was not like " you name yourself king or we are not going to war with you"!! He had a choice and I think naming himself as the King in the North wasn't a good one. It was the real reason of his death not anything else.
Oh and not listening to Cat was his second mistake( what if Grey Wind was with him at the Red Wedding).

[Arland]

Theon thing is bad only in hindsight. He had to be a prophet to predict that Balon will go along with crazy plan to attack North (which gave him absolutely nothing) and that Theon was psycho enough to try to take Winterfell (something that as Asha pointed was utterly pointless so that even Balon didn't try to do it). And Balon didn't care a bit about Theon, so letting him go didn't change a thing. The only one to blame for Winterfell fiasco was Rodrick, who was stupid enough to leave it defenseless and who was dumb enough to be outsmarted by Ramsey. Twice! .

Jayne thing certainly didn't help, but considering the big picture, Freys were going to betray him anyway, once they felt the wind is blowing Tywins way after Stannis spectacular defeat at Black water. Of course if Robb were more smart he should have predicted it and would have watched better Boltons and Freys, but it is also a lot of hindsight wisdom. We all knew Freys are going to flip at some point, but nobody have seen Bolton betrayal comming... And without Roose's participation, who was supposed to watch out for Freys it wouldn't have gone the way it went.

[Apple Martini]

Ashkan Stark, on 24 February 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

Robb was their Lord, he could have said no., it was not like " you name yourself king or we are not going to war with you"!! He had a choice and I think naming himself as the King in the North wasn't a good one. It was the real reason of his death not anything else.
Oh and not listening to Cat was his second mistake( what if Grey Wind was with him at the Red Wedding).

Actually, at that point, I don't think he could have turned it down and still maintained their respect and support. You're welcome to disagree, but once Umber (thanks, Greatjon!) did the "King in the North!" spiel, that was it. And saying that that's the "real reason of his death" and not any of the actually relevant mistakes he made after, is kind of silly. He could have stayed Lord of Winterfell and still died if he'd sent Theon away, lost the north and married Jeyne.

Quote

Theon thing is bad only in hindsight.

Saying something is bad only in hindsight suggests that no one in the story could have seen the folly in it until after it happened. In Theon's case, that isn't true. CATELYN knew sending Theon away was a bad idea and Robb did it anyway, despite her objections.

Edited by Apple Martini, 24 February 2012 - 09:24 AM.