176 replies to this topic

[Ser Ilyn's Tongue]

I'm going to say Mance.  He united the Free Folk, helped them escape the Others and is kind of kickass.  Also, he had to earn his kingship and has his priorities right - the safety of his people.

Out of the Southron's I would say Stannis for his sense justice and his respect for talent rather than status.  (I'll overlook the insane religious burnings for the sake of this post)!

I like Robb and he had many good qualities and a lot of potential.  But he left his kingdom undefended, made some terrible choices and ultimately lost the kingdom and his life (and many of his bannermen's lives) shortly after he inherited it.

[Ice Turtle]

Artos Stark, on 24 February 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

Out of those choices it would probably have to go to Robb.

• Robert was a drunk who whored and spend all the realms money.
  
• Dany has he making of a good queen in the future but has made some really terrible decisions and hasn't really been much of a success.
  
• Renly had the makings of a fine King and had he got the chance I think he would have made the best King of all but we all know how that ended.
  
• Balon didn't really do much of anything.
  
• I have no idea who so many people say Stannis.  What exactly has he done in these books to make him a good king?  Stannis assassinated his brother who would have surely destroyed him in battle, he turned to a different religion in the hopes that magic would help him win, he burns people as sacrafices to a God that the people in the Seven Kingdoms don't accept, he took a crushing defeat on the Blackwater and lost most of his army, he lost the Stormlands (he has no chance of returning to Storms End at this time) and Dragonstone, he ran up North and since has been trying to gather whatever army he can.  No one wants to follow Stannis, he inspires no loyalty.  He has been one of the worst kings out of everyone IMO, an absolute disaster.
  
• Euron has had succsess as a raider but honestly I don't see it going any farther than that, I don't believe he will ever get his dragon and so he will likely return to Pike and rule his people from there, never being a threat.
  
• Mance was terrible, all he did was lead his army into slaughter dispite having them outnumbered at least 15 to 1.
  
• Don't really even need to mention Joffery, Tommen or Vaserys

Mance didn't lead them to battle because of his personal glory or vengeance, but to save them and before that he tried every other way including searching for the horn of winter and opening the gate from the inside. Yes they were outnumbered, but as he told Jon his loses weren't that hight from NW. Could he had negotiated with Bowen? He actually had tried, even if he used a little lying.

[Fearsome Fred]

01.  Stannis - the best of them; driven more by duty than a love for power; but he needs to kill Mel.
02.  Robb - does he count?  He only ever claimed the north.
03.  Sweetrobin - ditto for the Vale; but he wants to make the bad men fly; a noble goal for a King.
04.  Tommen - but some credit must go to his councillor, Ser Pounce.
05.  Robert - okay, he sucked.  But not all the time.  And he did repent on his deathbed.
06.  Myrcella - short reign.  Now dead, though few suspect.
07.  Danny - a pawn of evil.  She can never be a good ruler.  She can only hope to save her soul.
08.  Aegon - pawn and patsy, full of pride.  Tied with Dany, except he has no dragons.
09.  Renly - a prideful and frivolous idiot.
10.  Balon - worships Cthulhu, like all his kin.
11.  Viserys -
12.  Joffrey - a lousy creep, but hey.  He's just a kid.
13.  Euron - worships evil worse than Balon

Edited by Fearsome Fred, 24 February 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[JKeats]

Artos Stark, on 24 February 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

I have no idea who so many people say Stannis.  What exactly has he done in these books to make him a good king?  Stannis assassinated his brother who would have surely destroyed him in battle, he turned to a different religion in the hopes that magic would help him win, he burns people as sacrafices to a God that the people in the Seven Kingdoms don't accept, he took a crushing defeat on the Blackwater and lost most of his army, he lost the Stormlands (he has no chance of returning to Storms End at this time) and Dragonstone, he ran up North and since has been trying to gather whatever army he can.  No one wants to follow Stannis, he inspires no loyalty.  He has been one of the worst kings out of everyone IMO, an absolute disaster.

For all the military setbacks he has endured, he keeps on going.  Tenacity in fighting for the right is praiseworthy.  And he is very much in the right, in my view, for reasons I have written of ad infinitum elsewhere on these boards.

As for Renly, he earned an execution.  The manner of it ultimately saved lives that would otherwise have been lost in battle.  Bully for Melisandre on that count.

Edited by JKeats, 24 February 2012 - 09:05 PM.

[Fearsome Fred]

Artos Stark, on 24 February 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

• I have no idea who so many people say Stannis.

He has a conscience named Davos.  But he could end up as the worst of them.  Alot depends upon his future choices.  But he is a doomed figure.  Like King Arthur in Excalibur, he will die in battle against his own demon child.

[atia-]

It's hard to say for Robb or Renly since they're dead....so I will go with Stannis, because I liked him from the beginning.  I'm not really down with R'Hollor though.  Robb would have been awesome, but he was just too young and naive with way too many sick and powerful enemies.  I also like Mance because he was able to rule and gain all of that respect from the wildlings.  Dany, I love you, but I wouldn't want you as my queen.  Stannis all the way!

[The Swaggering Bravo]

Apple Martini, on 24 February 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

Renly liked the idea of being a king but not actually being one; namely, he thought being a king meant looking pretty and watching jousts.

Wasn't Renly part of the Small Council and had a good idea for saving Eddard's skin though? And Tyrion, who most can agree was the best thing that happened to King's Landing during the novels, said that he would do exactly as Renly was doing if he were in his position: Flaunt his power with the largest army in the realm while his enemies tear each other to pieces. Not to mention that having the smallfolk love you is extremely important to retaining any position of power. No fault of his own led to his death, Stannis just hacked the system and killed him when he was surrounded by his followers. I like Stannis and agree with you that he was the best king, but Renly deserves more than that and in my opinion comes in a close second.

[The King in the South]

Fearsome Fred, on 24 February 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

01.  Stannis - the best of them; driven more by duty than a love for power; but he needs to kill Mel.
02.  Robb - does he count?  He only ever claimed the north.
03.  Sweetrobin - ditto for the Vale; but he wants to make the bad men fly; a noble goal for a King.
04.  Tommen - but some credit must go to his councillor, Ser Pounce.
05.  Robert - okay, he sucked.  But not all the time.  And he did repent on his deathbed.
06.  Myrcella - short reign.  Now dead, though few suspect.
07.  Danny - a pawn of evil.  She can never be a good ruler.  She can only hope to save her soul.
08.  Aegon - pawn and patsy, full of pride.  Tied with Dany, except he has no dragons.
09.  Renly - a prideful and frivolous idiot.
10.  Balon - worships Cthulhu, like all his kin.
11.  Viserys -
12.  Joffrey - a lousy creep, but hey.  He's just a kid.
13.  Euron - worships evil worse than Balon

Nope, try again.

[TheImpDaddy]

Renly would have been the best. He could have won people around to his cause without bloodshed. He would have been popular and fair. People act like he was naiive for not preventing his brother forming into a shadow and murdering him. If that hadn't happened he'd have smashed Stannis army, taken Kings Landing and restored peace to the Realm.

[Mathematical]

You may want to add Hizdhar to the list; though his reign was short, we cannot deny what he was!

[Bourne]

None of them are good. But I can give you a reverse order from worst to least bad,

Danny
Stannis
Robb
Joffrey
Robert

The rest we haven't seen rule enough or are only king in name. And Tommen is just to young to even include.

Danny is too young and really has no idea how the world works, so she has an excuse, but she's still done a terrible job as a ruler. I see a slim glimmer of hope that she may be learning, but I wouldn't bet on it. She has done a decent job as a conqueror.

Stannis is too inflexible. He has his iron morals which you can't have if you want to rule. You need to be willing to get your hands dirty. He has gotten a little more pragmatic, so he's improving.

Robb was decent because he did mostly listen to the advice of the older and wiser people around him. But he did let his moronic Stark honor get in the way of the greater good, so I wouldn't want him as a king.

Joffrey obviously sucked on his own, but gets a higher grade because It was actually just Tywin (who is really the best "king" in the series) ruling through him. Once he turned 16 and actually got to rule I'm sure he drops to the bottom of the list.

Robert was actually not a bad king. He was wise enough (or perhaps just apathetic enough) to allow the truly capable leaders (LF, Varys, Stannis as a soldier) to rule while he sat around making friends. Robert was charming, amiable and knew how to forgive. He was the figurehead, because somebody has to be the face of the kingdom, but didn't for the most part get involved with the affairs of state. And yes, he put the crown into debt, but because he allowed people like LF to run the daily affairs the Crown's income was also substantially greater than under previous kings. That obviously speaks to growing economy in Westeros, which leads to a better state of living for the common folk. On top of that, Westeros had 15 years of stability (with only Balon's rebellion causing havoc and that had very little effect on the common people's lives) during his reign, which is really the most important thing.

So regardless of how you view Robert from a moral standpoint, the kingdom was best off under his rule.

[Grip]

Stannis is the best out of all of them imo, all in all. He is an experienced leader and commander, fair but harsh he is what Westeros needs right now. I think Renly is underrated actually. Like Robb he is young and would do well with some seasoning hovewer he does not lack charisma and I doubt he would let his council rule like Robert did..

[GreatJim Umber]

Stannis is number one as soon as he gets rid of Mel. He has experience in combat and leadership, and he prefers men who have proven themselves over noble born softies.

[Grip]

GreatJim Umber, on 25 February 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

Stannis is number one as soon as he gets rid of Mel. He has experience in combat and leadership, and he prefers men who have proven themselves over noble born softies.

True enough, though it must be said that many of those fighting for him can be said to be Mel's followers aswell. What happens if she dissapeares? I guess most of them will fight on, not having much of a choice but still..

[Revan Baratheon]

The King in the South, on 24 February 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

Nope, try again.

He made a theory on that called golden shroud and golden crown


Stannis is the only guy who realized that kingship is a duty not a right.He is the ONLY king who is actually fighting against the true enemies:Others.While the rest are bickering against themselves,Stan ALONE went to the aid of the NW and is trying to help them.

He respects and listens to good counsel,coming even from bastards and lowborns,and is willing to reward them for it.He is the best hope for westeros.

[Grip]

Revan Baratheon, on 25 February 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

...He respects and listens to good counsel,coming even from bastards and lowborns,and is willing to reward them for it.He is the best hope for westeros.

I like what Roose Bolton said somewhere (parraphrasing) that young lords are the bane of their house. I think what Westeros needs right now is someone older and more experienced which rules out Dany/Aegon//Jon etc. Taking the hard descisions for the good of the realm as a whole. So yes in this regard Stannis is the best suited out of all the candidates.

Edit: Spelling..

Edited by Grip, 25 February 2012 - 02:24 AM.

[The King in the South]

Revan Baratheon, on 25 February 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

He made a theory on that called golden shroud and golden crown


Stannis is the only guy who realized that kingship is a duty not a right.He is the ONLY king who is actually fighting against the true enemies:Others.While the rest are bickering against themselves,Stan ALONE went to the aid of the NW and is trying to help them.

He respects and listens to good counsel,coming even from bastards and lowborns,and is willing to reward them for it.He is the best hope for westeros.

I read that thread and it said nothing about Myrcella being dead. It was talking about the fact that the three children might not necessarily be crowned before they died and what the significance of the shroud was.
Unless you're talking about a different one?

[Jory]

This thread is making me so happy. STANNIS STANNIS STANNIS

[Grip]

Jory, on 25 February 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

This thread is making me so happy. STANNIS STANNIS STANNIS

Yeah I agree. Its good to see that Stannis has gotten so many more fans on his side recently, I remember a time when he wasnt that popular..

[Jory]

Grip, on 25 February 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

Yeah I agree. Its good to see that Stannis has gotten so many more fans on his side recently, I remember a time when he wasnt that popular..

Stannis should be king of everything.