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[brashcandy]

Rapsie's last review:

ACOK - Sansa VI

Summary

Sansa is still in the Queen’s Ballroom. She notes that despite the silvery light reflected off the wall scones there is a darkness in the people in the room. She sees it in Ser Ilyn’s eyes, hear it in Lord Gyles’ cough and in the tone of Osney Kettleback.

Osney is whispering to the Queen, but Sansa can hear what he is saying. It’s a report of the battle: some archers had got across the river, but the Hound had killed them and Tyrion has had the chain raised. There is drunken rioting in flea bottom. Lots of citizens have gone to Baelor’s Sept to pray. The Queen asks about Joff and Osney says he went to the Sept to get the High Septon’s blessing and is walking the walls with Tyrion, and bolstering the moral of the troops.

The Queen has her cup filled and Sansa notes that she is drinking heavily, but that it seems to make her more beautiful.
Quote

Her eyes had a bright, feverish heat to them as she looked down over the hall. Eyes of wildfire, Sansa thought.

There are many entertainers and the fools on hand to try and take everyone’s mind off the battle and people are laughing but Sansa thinks it
Quote

it was a joyless laughter, the sort of laughter that can turn into sobbing in half a heartbeat. Their bodies are here, but their thoughts are on the city walls, and their hearts as well.

More food is brought out but no one feels like eating. She notes Lord Gyles is coughing more, Lollys is shivering wife fear and the bide of a young knight is weeping. Cersei has Maester Frenken put her to bed with dreamwine.


Quote

“Tears,” she said scornfully to Sansa as the woman was led from the hall. “The woman’s weapon, my lady mother used to call them. The man’s weapon is a sword. And that tells us all you need to know, doesn’t it?”

Sansa says that men must be brave to fight, but Cersei responds that Jaime had said that the only time he felt alive was in battle or in bed. Sansa notes that the Queen is not eating, but drinking.

Cersei tells her
Quote

“I would sooner face any number of swords than sit helpless like this, pretending to enjoy the company of this flock of frightened hens.”
Sansa points out that the Queen had invited them and Cersei tells her that certain things are expected of a Queen, and Sansa best learn that, and that although she considers the women nothing, their men are important and if they prevail the women will tell their menfolk stories of how the Queen helped them to bolster their spirits and keep them safe.

Sansa asks what should happen if the castle falls and Cersei rebukes her saying she knows Sansa would like that to happen. Cersei muses that her own guards might betray her and because the women in the hall are high born, they may escape rape and murder, but that the servings girls might not. She remarks that even the ransom money they are worth might not save them as men often want flesh after a fight more than gold. She points out that people such as Shae will likely be raped. She says that enough alcohol ill make even ugly women seem as attractive to men as Sansa.

Sansa is startled by this and questions her by going “Me?” Cersei scolds her and tells to stop being a mouse. She says if any other man were trying to take the castle, she might seduce them but that it won’t work with Stannis. Sansa is shocked by this admission and Cersei calls her a fool and tells her that
Quote

“Tears are not a woman’s only weapon. You’ve got another one between your legs, and you’d best learn to use it. You’ll find men use their swords freely enough. Both kinds of swords.

The Kettlebacks then come back into the hall. Sansa notes that they are both popular in the castle with low and high born alike and especially the serving wenches.
Quote

Of late Ser Osmund had taken Sandor Clegane’s place by Joffrey’s side, and Sansa had heard the women at the washing well saying he was as strong as the Hound, only younger and faster. If that was so, she wondered why she had never once heard of these Kettleblacks before

Osney tells the Queen that the whole Blackwater is awash with wildfire. The Queen’s only concern is for her son. Osney tells her that he’s at the Mud Gate with Tyrion and the Kingsguard and is giving men tips on how to use a crossbow. Osney says he’s brave and Cersei retorts that he’d best stay alive. Osfryd then reports that two maidservants and a stable boy have been caught with horses trying to escape the castle. Cersei nochalently calls them the first traitors of the night and sends Ser Ilyn to see to them, saying that their heads should be put on spikes outside the stable as a warning to others.

She then turns to Sansa and tells her that if you are gentle with people in times such as these, you will have treason sprouting up everywhere and tells her that the only way to keep people loyal is through fear. Sansa says she will remember that but thinks
Quote

love was a surer route to the people’s loyalty than fear. If I am ever a queen, I’ll make them love me.

More food is served. Lollys is sick and Ser Gyles cough’s more. Cersei expresses her disgust at Ser Gyles and says the gods are mad to have wasted manhood on the likes of him.

Osfryd returns and tells Cersei that rich merchants are asking for shelter in the Castle. Cersei says they are to return to their homes and if they do not go, the archers are to kill a few so that they get the message and that she won’t have the gates opened for any reason. She then tells Sansa she wishes she could cut their heads off herself.

She then says that when she was little she and Jaime were so alike that they could not be told apart and would sometimes dress in each other’s clothing and pretend to be each other. She was always surprised how differently Jaime was treated compared to her. She recalls when Jaime got his first sword, she got nothing. She says
Quote

He was heir to Casterly Rock, while I was to be sold to some stranger like a horse, to be ridden whenever my new owner liked, beaten whenever he liked, and cast aside in time for a younger filly.

Sansa responds that she was Queen of Westeros, but Cersei says a queen is just a woman.

Cersei refuses a refill of wine as she wants to keep a clear head.

Osney then appears and tells the Queen that men are on the Tourney grounds and that Tyrion has gone out to face them. The Queen mocks Tyrion’s ability and then queries where Joff is. Qsney says he is at the Trebuchets hurling Antler Men into the river. Cersei demands that he be brought into the Castle. Osney tries to say that Tyrion had given other orders but Cersei demands he be brought inside or she will send both Kettleback brothers out in the next sorties.

The meal is finished and some of the guests request permission to go to the Sept. A singer is brought in to entertain those who are left. He sings about Jonquil and Florian, Prince Aemon the Dragonknight and Nymeria’s ten thousand ships. Several women begin to dry and Sansa herself is on the verge of tears. Cersei tells her she should practice her tears for Stannis and then tells Sansa she knows about her treason in the Godswood.

Sansa says she only goes to the Godswood to pray but thinks
Quote

Don’t look at Ser Dontos, don’t, don’t, Sansa told herself. She doesn’t know, no one knows, Dontos promised me, my Florian would never fail me.
Cersei asks why else she would pray to her father’s Gods if it weren’t for the Lannister’s defeat. Sansa nervously says she prays for Joff and Cersei mocks her.
Quote

“Why, because he treats you so sweetly?” The queen took a flagon of sweet plum wine from a passing serving girl and filled Sansa’s cup. “Drink,” she commanded coldly. “Perhaps it will give you the courage to deal with truth for a change.”

She makes Sansa down the wine, which makes her head spin, and then tells her that she should know the truth about why Ser Ilyn is here. The Queen beckons Ser Ilyn over and Sansa realizes she hadn’t even noticed him returning to the hall. He has her father’s sword and it is covered in the blood of the maidservants and stable boy he has just beheaded. She thinks about how her father took care of Ice and would clean the blade in the Godswood after he had taken a man’s head. Cersei asks Ser Ilyn to tell Sansa why he is there and Ser Ilyn rattles ot a sound from an emotionless face.


Quote

“He’s here for us, he says,” the queen said. “Stannis may take the city and he may take the throne, but I will not suffer him to judge me. I do not mean for him to have us alive.”
Us? “You heard me. So perhaps you had best pray again, Sansa, and for a different outcome. The Starks will have no joy from the fall of House Lannister, I promise you.” She reached out and touched Sansa’s hair, brushing it lightly away from her neck.

Analysis

I came to the conclusion a while ago that many people don’t like Sansa and therefore do not fully read her chapters and skim read them instead. I think this is why they are suddenly shocked in AFFC when reading Cersei’s POV and discover she’s not very smart. It is quite apparent from Sansa’s interactions with her that she isn’t very good at playing the game.

Cersei talks about how people will say she lifted the women’s spirits, but she does not interact with them at all and instead is scathing about all the terrified people, whilst slowly getting drunk. She imparts her “wisdom” to Sansa, who is actually seeing first hand, how not to act. Sansa notes the difference between love and fear and her thought
Quote

love was a surer route to the people’s loyalty than fear. If I am ever a queen, I’ll make them love me.
shows that she is already more astute in terms of how to rule than Cersei is, but then she did have her father and mother’s example as well.

Cersei’s talk about a woman’s weapons being tears and sex was also interesting as Sansa is very adapt in using her “courtesy armour” for defense, but has yet to go on the offensive in the game. Oddly this is an important lesson for her to learn. Certainly it gives us a possible insight into how Joanna controlled Tywin.

Tyrion is mentioned frequently in the chapter, but Sansa never once thinks about him. She does however think about Sandor.
Quote

Of late Ser Osmund had taken Sandor Clegane’s place by Joffrey’s side, and Sansa had heard the women at the washing well saying he was as strong as the Hound, only younger and faster. If that was so, she wondered why she had never once heard of these Kettleblacks before
Sansa has previously mentioned gossip at the well and I get the impression, that no one speaks to her apart from Ser Dontos, Sandor and Cersei. Any information she has is overheard gossip. She also seems to doubt the gossip as she is aware that the best fighters are widely known about and is there possibly some mental defence of the Hound’s abilties going on in her mind?

Ser Ilyn is yet again a constant threat and menace. Cersei is incredibly cruel and does scare her with the threat of execution. As well as admitting and mocking how she is treated by Joff. This admission would also seem to suggest that even after the stripping incident, she is still being ill treated and nothing is being done about it. There is a certain arrogance and unfeeling nature to the Lannisters as given Cersei and Joff’s behaviour to her, Tyrion’s quip in the previous chapter about her being sent away for safety seems particularly callous, as he could have helped her but didn’t bother. Again she is not on his radar.

Joff’s immaturity also comes out in this chapter while men are fighting and dying, he is like a child flings toys into the river for his amusement, only in this instant the toys are people. People who have not even had a trial.

We also see how bitter Cersei is about her life and that her marriage to Robert was particularly poisonous.
Quote

I was to be sold to some stranger like a horse, to be ridden whenever my new owner liked, beaten whenever he liked, and cast aside in time for a younger filly.
The beaten whenever he liked part, also suggests that domestic violence was more common in their marriage than other areas of the text would indicate.

Again we also have the songs, Florian and Jonquil and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. Nymeria's ships is a new one to Sansa's grouping and always seemed to have more to do with Arya than her. It could however signal the idea that some bridges once burnt can not be gone back to.

Edited by brashcandy, 24 February 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[brashcandy]

Some comments on the chapter:

From ME:

Nice review, Rapsie.

These chapters are really helping to establish the fundamental contrast between Cersei and Sansa. The former strives on fear and intimidation, and believes her only weapons are forced tears and sex by which to entrap and manipulate. Whereas Sansa, though innocent to the idea that men could see her as a sexual object, believes in winning the hearts of people through love, and compassion, and displays real sincere emotions when she hears the music playing.

I do agree with you that on re-read it's kinda not hard to see the Cersei of AFFC in these early chapters. There's a recklessness to her behaviour that seems hard to fathom even now. I think what we see here is her complete selfishness when it comes to her children, particularly Joff. She knows that Joff being visible during the battle will help inspire his men, but she simply doesn't care. I have always understood Cersei's character, and her fury at a world where men are given opportunities to excel and advance in battle and politics whilst women are required as mothers and bedmates, but her way of dealing with these struggles has turned her into a monster. She sits there looking flushed and beautiful, but as Sansa notes, her eyes are like wildfire.

I thought Sansa's determination to rule through love was an important benchmark in her development as well. She's making a conscious choice to reject the example and the advice given by Cersei and to adopt her own strategy that she has learnt from her parents and others. Her observation really stood out because as we noted earlier we rarely see Sansa doing a lot of reflection on what she hears from others, so for GRRM to have her assert this appears to be credible foreshadowing of her future role as Queen.

And yes, clearly Cersei has never heard of the courtesy armour! No surprise there really, but it makes you wonder about the type of woman Johanna Lannister really was. Ironically, Cersei expresses such anger and frustration over not being treated the same as Jaime, and not being given the same avenues for power and advancement, but all of her weapons that she touts to Sansa actually work to weaken and discredit women in power, rather than assisting them to be taken seriously or respected. Sansa might still be a naive girl, but she has a better grasp on what it is that will ensure a successful reign than Cersei ever did.


From childofsummer:

Thanks for the excellent summary and analysis, Rapsie! The thing that stands out for me in this chapter is Sansa's incredible composure. She is acting much more like a queen than Cersei is, despite Cersei's deliberate cruelty, mockery, and attempts to get Sansa drunk and scare her out of her wits. It is Sansa who helped cajole Lollys into the castle. It is she who has the discipline to keep her teeth shut on the secret of her purpose in the godswood, even when she's mentally running in circles at Cersei's pointed remarks.

Sansa observes the people in the hall and gauges their mood and needs far more closely and accurately than Cersei does. Cersei's only real concerns are herself and Joff, and how much wine she can pour into herself, and she treats Sansa cruelly in a twisted attempt to make herself feel better, smarter, and wiser. Sansa, fortunately, seems to see right through her, and while wisely keeping quiet, notes where Cersei is mishandling her people. Cersei's statement to Sansa about dealing with truth is incredibly ironic, because it is Cersei, not Sansa, who is running from important truths, such as her ability to control a situation and her effect on the people who are supposed to depend on and look up to her.

I also found Sansa's description of the effect of Cersei recalling Joff educational. Sansa thinks about how the king's retreat to safety must affect the morale of the men who are told to stay and hold the gate. I doubt Cersei even gave a second thought to how Joff's leaving would impact the city's defense. And even if she had, she wouldn't have cared.

In the way she values other people, keeps her head in a crisis, and analyzes the larger picture, Sansa shows herself to be a better person and a better queen than the woman who purports to give her advice.

Edited by brashcandy, 24 February 2012 - 08:05 PM.

[voodooqueen126]

Brilliant chapter here.
We certainly see her that  Cersei isn't terribly clever here and so weak but also spiteful.
Also on the previous topic I posted some quotes from the introduction of Jane Austen's novel Northanger Abbey.
Would anyone else agree that Sansa has much in common with a Radcliffean heroine?

[brashcandy]

Continued thoughts on chapter (from Sansa II)

2 questions:

1.Just why was Cersei trying to get Sansa drunk again?
2. Is there anything concerning Cersei's "lessons" that Sansa could find useful or instructive? Or is Cersei more of a cautionary tale?

Child of summer:
IMO, Cersei was both trying to rationalize her own response to the situation (drinking) and sadistically wanting to make Sansa uncomfortable. She couldn't handle seeing Sansa cope with the stress gracefully, so she made Sansa drink much more than she wanted in an attempt to break Sansa's calm. I guess Cersei's inviting the ladies to shelter in the keep was a positive thing for Sansa, because it reinforced the notion that queenship comes with certain social and other obligations, but I see Cersei much more as a warning to Sansa of what she does not want to become.

Brash:
Yes, I agree. There seems to be something about Sansa's innocence that pisses her off, and her lessons are not geared at mere enlightening, but rather an attempt to corrupt the girl. And you made this point earlier, COS, about how Sansa sees the people in the hall as people, with needs and fears, but Cersei cannot relate to the women in any sympathetic light. She thinks of them as only being valuable because of their men: the "cocks" that she needs to impress by keeping their "hens".

Bgona:
About the lessons of Cersei taught is more the How Not To Proceed. But also taught her valuable things as how some people can behavior in a city laid siege. People can run out, but it was wise to kill them as an example to others to not round out. Or it will be more intelligent to led them run out but not coming back.

Also taught Sansa who lived Cersei, trusting no one. It is interesant how both don´t trust anyone, but they have different arguments.

Sansa doesn´t trust anybody cause she is a prisioner, and she hasn´t any kind of power.

Cersei doesn´t trust anybody cause she is the queen, and she has all the power.

Here it is show also Cersei soul, been a very disturbing one.


Christina Cerriddwynn:
This is a Sansa thread but meh....Cersei just has penis envy and it shows in her manners/speech


Summerqueen:

I'm not sure whether I believe this is the case or not, but I do wonder if Cersei doesn't imagine that Sansa's innocence and good-heartedness is all an act, or possibly an act. I remember how she spoke with Ned, and she seemed to think, mistakenly, that he was hypocritical (IIRC?) because she cannot imagine what it must be like to not be self-serving. Remember what she was up to around Sansa's age? Yeah, pushing her friends down wells.

So, it occurs to me that when she orders Sansa to drink and then scares her with Ilyn, it might be to shake her up enough to babble out whether she has protectors or a source of info, etc., check to see if she has some sort of play or game on. Sansa is carefully guarded and the object of a lot of scrutiny. It isn't unreasonable for dissenters to have reached out to her by that time, though, and she probably worries about Sansa getting free or becoming some sort of rallying point as her own popularity falters. Plus, why does Sansa even care about these ladies? Are they important to her? Are they helping her? Cersei has a suspicious mind. She may have just wanted to feel Sansa out and thought alcohol would make that easier. For all Cersei knows, Sansa is the young queen from Maegi's prophecy, after all. We know how paranoid Cersei becomes in later books, how obsessed with this "young queen". She may be wondering if she can get a potential arch-nemesis to talk freely with a little wine.

Edited by brashcandy, 24 February 2012 - 08:27 PM.

[brashcandy]

Voodoo Queen: please feel free to repost your ideas on Sansa as Radcliffean heroine.

[voodooqueen126]

Not sure where else to put this:
okay so some person, sometime ago was saying that Sansa was the typical heroine: sweet, romantic, defenceless, who loves embroidery and feminine and beautiful but basically empty.
Obviously this person has never read a novel published after Northanger Abbey asides from Charles Dickens and Stephanie Myers.
From the introduction of Northanger Abbey, Penguin classics:
/begin quote/
Foregrounding her unusual contract with us, Austen launches on the novel by way of a quick checklist of the fictional conventions she supposes us used to: heroines's exceptional beauty; the difficulties they are likely to meet; the failures of the standard guardian figures, parents, chaperones, and marriagable men.
... later on page XVIII of the introduction:
These books are written says Johnson,
chiefly to the young, the ignorant, and the idle, to whom they serve as lectures of conduct, and introduction into life. They are the entertainment of minds unfurnished with ideas, and therefore easily susceptible of impressions; not fixed principles, and therefore easily following the current of fancy; not informed by experience, and consequently open to every false suggestion and partial account.
Sure enough, Catherine somewhat exhibits each of these defects. To a sophisticated reader of novels and about novels, she plays the archetypal simple reader, a hostile caricature of oneself. In much the same way, she acts like the giddy girls rebuked in another rambler essay.
Also all though this was published long after Northanger Abbey and Johnson's critiques
http://www.readbooko...adOnLine/42607/ George Elliot's description of this kind of heroine is pertinent. (also worth noting that Sansa, like Catherine Morland but unlike the heroine which Elliot decries, reads her culture's equivalents to romance novels.
Back to Northanger Abbey intro

Fifteen years after Johnson's death, his severity about the potential dangers of romance was being sturdily challenged, by proponents of what was by 1799 the high tide of an overwhelming romance revival. After Thomas Warton's History of English Literature to 1603 (1774-81) and Clara Reeve's philosophical dialogues. The Progress of Romance (1785), the reputation of the novel became enhanced by its claim of descent from medieval and classical romance, and thus a history going back to the Greeks. Reeve's arguments peters out disappointingly, but as set up it makes the rousing feminist case that women have their own ancient literary genres, implying women's presence from the outset, as creators and audience, in cultural traditions based on primitive pre-literate forms.
Joanna Baillie, in her sixty-page Introductory Discourse to her Plays on the Passions (1798) and WIlliam Godwin, in a long-unpublished essay, "of History and Romance' (c. 1797), follow Reeve in capitalising on the association of both romance and novel wwith women writers and readers, rather than apologizing for it. They argue that epic and formal history are by contrast, the superseded genres of archaic, militaristic cultures,. The modern reader, is typically a domesticated person-and thus, it is hinted, a woman. She will prefer historical novels, centred on people, to the history of external events (Godwin), and domestic drama, based on the passions generated by personal relationships, to high tragedy orepic (Baillie). to use the generic word preferred by Reeve, Godwin and Baillie, the modern age is seeing the return of roamnce, but in a sophisticated rather than a regressive form, for which writers of both sexes may take credit.

Austen challenges us to pick up her text's play of allusion; anyone who does not, but reads the scene [Beechen Cliff] at the level of the beginner Catherine, has lost a layer of ironic comedy, and a key cross-reference to current claims for women's place in culture as readers and creators of genres of their own. IF that case goes by default, it becomes natural to assume, as most critics do, that Henry prevails over Cahterine in the Beechen Cliff conversation-merely because he champions 'grown up' history. On the contrary: the first round goes to Eleanor, Catherine's knowledgeable ally, for defending the use of fiction (that is of invented speeches and trains of thought) by some older historians.
But though 'female' romance scores first, Henry successfully counter-attacks from the masculinist side when the sensible, well-read Eleanor believes she hears Catherine announcing shocking new from London.
/end quote/

[voodooqueen126]

/begin quote from page XXIII of introduction of Northanger Abbey/
The novels listed in I, v (Burney's Cecilia, 1782, and Camilla, 1796, and Edgeworth's Belinda, 1801) are all stories featuring the dangerous entry into the adult world of an inexperienced, vulnerable heroine. So for that matter is Richardson's Sir Charles Grandison (1753), dismissed by Isabella in vi. The same plot, with its stereotyped dangers amplified and psychologized, occurs in Radcliffe's historical romances The Sicilian Romance (1790), Romance of the Forest (1791) and Mysteries of Udolpho (1794). Henry skillfully weaves together key episodes from all three in the parody Gothic with which he entertains Catherine on their drive to Northanger.
From the mid nineteenth century until late in the twentieth century, Romantic Gothic was often decried, both as pasteboard, gimcrack architecture and as a sensational sub-genre of fiction deliberately aimed at a semi-educated readership.
Radcliffe's principal Gothic novels were by no means put by contemporaries into the same category.
Radcliffe bases her action and setting on convetions established by Horace Walpole in The Castle of Otranto (1764), and developed by several successor, which typically centre on the figure of the cruel tyrant, and use his vast prison-like fortressas the setting for his crimes. But she also moves far beyond routine, mechanical deployment of Walpole's devices, and shifts the emphasis in significant ways. She divertsthe readers's attention from the compelling but stagey villain to the heightened, paranoid, consciousness of his female victim, that is from event to the the reception and interpretation of event. This degree of internalization lessens or atleast complicates what is in Walpole and in Radcliffe's challenger Mathtew Gregory Lewis a somewhat obvous political allegor, whereby the feudal baron stands for domination and political injustice in the family and in the state.
The Radcliffe heroine is isolated and surrounded by strangers, enemies or equivocal friends. Her parents are dead, possibly dead, or not certainly known-the last, an equally powerful, more suggestive indicator of her alienation. At the nodal point or points in her story she comes to a building which may provide a seeming refuge by day but becomes a threatening, haunted maze by night.
When the Radcliffe heroine resolves to explore the hidden nocturnal world she simultaneously tries her courage and reveals her immaturity. Terror of the dark belongs to her childhood self, which she has barely left behind. By mastering fear and opting for rationality she chooses the world as it is, a state of civilization committed to order and reason. Though Chesterfield gibes at women as "children of a larger growth", Radcliffe shows her heroines emerging from dependency and irrational fear to self-reliance; by implication , qualifying themselves for a modern daylight society on the same terms of citizenship as men. Adeline and Emily take charge of their own destinies, and in so doing put behind them the injustice, superstition and abject dependence of history's medieval shadowland.
Radcliffe's plot concerning an individual women's rite of passage to maturity cna also be read, then, as a historical and civic allegory. The values of Protestant self-reliance have replaced, but not everywhere, or not within eveyrone, the values of the old aristocratic, Catholic world order.
Much of the best modern criticism of Radcliffe has shown, excitingly, how modern she seems. She teaches her successors, Austen included, how to give the reader access to a heroine's conscousness.
For post-Freudians, the settings suggest the landscape of the Unconscious, while the plots of parental violence, guilt and suffering re-enact the repressed traumas of infancy. This imagery speaks across time of women's fear of sexually active men, whether stranger's lovers, or fathers.
That modern sympathetic version of Radcliffe is thought provoking when we read her novels; but though AUsten responded imaginatively to her contemporary, she never understood her by quite this light. She indicates otherwise in her three imitations, arguably parodies, in Northanger abbey:...
Catherine does not imagine a sexual motive for the General's supposed crime, though the Radcliffe heroine lives in fear of rape, and lust is always at the root of evil in the violent, primitive and passionate Radcliffean past. Austen never allows the dark shadwos of the past to encroach on the present, either in a political form, as despotism, or psychologically, in the return of a tragic or traumatized subconscious.
Austen does, however, encourage readers to merge Radcliffe's symbolic plot with her own-though with striking substitutions. Eleanor, atleast, repeats the Gothic stereotype of a young womanhood. Passive and pensive, isolated and repressed, she endures from an unfeeling father daily constraints not far from imprisonment, and has never got over the loss of her mother. But once her foolish Radcliffean hypothesis is dismissed, Catherine is free to tackle Eleanor's unhappiness in a more appropriate and natural manner, by intuiting her grief and her need to tlak. Her sister-like friendship with Eleanor, a delicately drawn, subtly emotional but unsexual relationship, in fact comes to share the central narrative space with Henry's courtship of Catherine.

The literary relationship which emerges between Austen and Radcliffe is by no means obvious, atleast to modern readers, who often take Austen for the the champion of modernity. In fact the Protestant Radcliffe approaches the Catholic past critically; by contrast, Austen, though wedded to an exact modern setting, has also inherited the Tory leaning, more Catholic than Reformed, lightly asserted in her juvenile Histories of England. Northanger Abbey itself will imply she respects village England and its unwritten customs as a source of law and the constitution, the church and the clergy back to monastic times for their social commitment. Ironically then it is Austen of these two who is 'ancient' in her sympathies.

[Raksha the Demon]

brashcandy, on 24 February 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Some comments on the chapter: From ME: Nice review, Rapsie. These chapters are really helping to establish the fundamental contrast between Cersei and Sansa. The former strives on fear and intimidation, and believes her only weapons are forced tears and sex by which to entrap and manipulate. Whereas Sansa, though innocent to the idea that men could see her as a sexual object, believes in winning the hearts of people through love, and compassion, and displays real sincere emotions when she hears the music playing. I do agree with you that on re-read it's kinda not hard to see the Cersei of AFFC in these early chapters. There's a recklessness to her behaviour that seems hard to fathom even now. I think what we see here is her complete selfishness when it comes to her children, particularly Joff. She knows that Joff being visible during the battle will help inspire his men, but she simply doesn't care. I have always understood Cersei's character, and her fury at a world where men are given opportunities to excel and advance in battle and politics whilst women are required as mothers and bedmates, but her way of dealing with these struggles has turned her into a monster. She sits there looking flushed and beautiful, but as Sansa notes, her eyes are like wildfire. I thought Sansa's determination to rule through love was an important benchmark in her development as well. She's making a conscious choice to reject the example and the advice given by Cersei and to adopt her own strategy that she has learnt from her parents and others. Her observation really stood out because as we noted earlier we rarely see Sansa doing a lot of reflection on what she hears from others, so for GRRM to have her assert this appears to be credible foreshadowing of her future role as Queen. And yes, clearly Cersei has never heard of the courtesy armour! No surprise there really, but it makes you wonder about the type of woman Johanna Lannister really was. Ironically, Cersei expresses such anger and frustration over not being treated the same as Jaime, and not being given the same avenues for power and advancement, but all of her weapons that she touts to Sansa actually work to weaken and discredit women in power, rather than assisting them to be taken seriously or respected. Sansa might still be a naive girl, but she has a better grasp on what it is that will ensure a successful reign than Cersei ever did. From childofsummer: Thanks for the excellent summary and analysis, Rapsie! The thing that stands out for me in this chapter is Sansa's incredible composure. She is acting much more like a queen than Cersei is, despite Cersei's deliberate cruelty, mockery, and attempts to get Sansa drunk and scare her out of her wits. It is Sansa who helped cajole Lollys into the castle. It is she who has the discipline to keep her teeth shut on the secret of her purpose in the godswood, even when she's mentally running in circles at Cersei's pointed remarks. Sansa observes the people in the hall and gauges their mood and needs far more closely and accurately than Cersei does. Cersei's only real concerns are herself and Joff, and how much wine she can pour into herself, and she treats Sansa cruelly in a twisted attempt to make herself feel better, smarter, and wiser. Sansa, fortunately, seems to see right through her, and while wisely keeping quiet, notes where Cersei is mishandling her people. Cersei's statement to Sansa about dealing with truth is incredibly ironic, because it is Cersei, not Sansa, who is running from important truths, such as her ability to control a situation and her effect on the people who are supposed to depend on and look up to her. I also found Sansa's description of the effect of Cersei recalling Joff educational. Sansa thinks about how the king's retreat to safety must affect the morale of the men who are told to stay and hold the gate. I doubt Cersei even gave a second thought to how Joff's leaving would impact the city's defense. And even if she had, she wouldn't have cared. In the way she values other people, keeps her head in a crisis, and analyzes the larger picture, Sansa shows herself to be a better person and a better queen than the woman who purports to give her advice.

Another insightful analysis, Rapsie - great work!  

Cersei's treatment of Sansa really does make me want to slap the Lioness upside the head!  It's bad enough that Cersei and her family have killed Sansa's father and retainers and are holding her captive and having Sansa beaten regularly out of spite for her brother's war against them.  Cersei just has to try to prod, goad and frighten Sansa while they are facing battle outside the walls and possible invasion.  If Sansa is as naive and foolish as Cersei implies, why is she wasting her time trying to brutally educate her - more like bully and shock her?  I don't think Cersei is capable of empathizing with Sansa; perhaps Sansa reminds Cersei of her own youth and the dreams and hopes she had of marrying Rhaegar Targaryen, an idyllic marriage and fairy-tale life as Rhaegar's queen.  The thing is, Sansa has already had her dreams brutally quashed by Cersei and Joffrey; Cersei is twisting the knife in Sansa's emotional wounds by verbally bullying and scaring her.  We can see the likeness here between mother and son; Cersei and Joffrey are predators who stalk and hurt those they view as weaker prey.  Sansa is socially and physically in a powerless, weak position; so both Cersei and Joff think that she is weak, natural prey.  They don't understand that she is still a wolf, though a lone one (and hopefully not the lone wolf that Ned Stark said would die), and has internal resources and strength of her own.

Sansa's telling herself not to look at Dontos when the Queen speaks of her prayers in the Godswood as treason shows how far Sansa has come and how skillful she has become at self-control, especially since she is only twelve.  

As BrashCandy notes, GRRM shows us some significant differences between Sansa and Cersei.  Cersei preaches how she was mistreated (which she was), condemned by her gender to life as an abused pawn rather than a player, but now that she has actual power, she doesn't lift a finger to help Sansa, who is now the abused pawn, and voices contempt for the frightened women who she is supposedly protecting.  Sansa keeps as quiet as she can, does betray some fear (which really should not be held against so young a girl with an army outside the city) but also sympathetically observes the women, noting the greater efficacy of love (rather than fear) as an insurer of loyalty and resolves to make her subjects love her if she ever becomes queen.  Cersei sees 'hens', Sansa sees frightened women.  There's a difference in their viewpoints.  Cersei lives and breathes and acts with the Lannister ethos; entitlement without empathy or compassion, those who are not Lannisters exist to further Lannister agendas or serve the Lannisters' physical needs.  Sansa remembers, consciously or otherwise, the way of Winterfell: entitlement comes hand in hand with responsibility and justice, care for bannermen and retainers and smallfolk alike.  And of course, there is Sansa's own personal compassion, a quality I think is innate but nurtured/encouraged by being raised as the daughter of Ned Stark of Winterfell.  Ned valued both courage and compassion in almost everyone; and so does his daughter.

Brashcandy - I think Cersei views the Courtesy Armor as a tedious burden that other people have to shoulder, but not necessary for Lannisters, who are naturally Above everyone else on the food chain/natural order. The Courtesy Armor was probably the single most important lesson Sansa's poor murdered Septa ever taught her...

Edited by Raksha the Demon, 25 February 2012 - 07:43 PM.

[Summerqueen]

voodooqueen126, on 24 February 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

<snip>

So, how do you see this topic informing Sansa's character? would you argue that she is a traditional gothic heroine as opposed to a protagonist of domestic fiction? I would certainly agree that Radcliffe's genre has more convention crossover than the novel of manners.

But I'm not sure i agree with your other conclusions about modernness. It would depend on how you figure such things. Austen is responsible for free indirect discourse, so she is quite an innovator in terms of literary technique, for example. As for topic, Austen depended on subtlety because of her relative dependence. Radcliffe wrote sensational literature that sold quite well. Her independence, by comparison, gave her more room to explore more shocking topics. If you read Pride and Prejudice side by side with A Vindication of the Right of Woman, for example, you might see some interesting correspondences of theme and phrase, though. Despite her Tory tendencies, Austen managed to bring up socio-political realities that warranted social revision.

Even in NA, Austen's Catherine is more subversive than many readers imagine. What comes off as utter nonsense often has an ironic truth lurking beneath the surface. For example when she claims: "I read [history] a little as a duty, but it tells me nothing that does not either vex or weary me. The quarrels of popes and kings, with wars or pestilences, in every page; the men all so good for nothing, and hardly any women at all -- it is very tiresome: and yet I often think it odd that it should be so dull, for a great deal of it must be invention." For any history buff in that time period, this speech sounds frivolous, but the character actually exposes the historical tendencies of silencing other voices (especially women), glorifying violent pursuits (like conquest and holy war), and privileging the winners with editing the official record to make them seem more deserving or worthy. Later, even though we see Catherine's gothic imagination lead her into making mistaken suppositions about her host, her imaginings underscore a psychic reality for the host's family. Being accutely conscious of her economic dependency, Austen must manage her work so that she receives no public backlash for progressive or critical ideas regarding the place of women in her society, an impassioned—if subtle—argument for expanding their political and economical rights, and a rigorous suspicion of texts that privilege a man's view of what is proper for women to read. It's there, if you're looking for it.

Not sure if Sansa can be said to subvert the status quo under cover of seemingly innocuous remarks, but it might make an interesting study.

Edited for typos and clarity.

Edited by Summerqueen, 24 February 2012 - 11:15 PM.

[Elba the Intoner]

I think after I finish a reread of ASOIF I have to go re read Northanger Abbey.

Seriously, I love Jane Austen and I think one of the reasons I like Sansa's chapters is because she does seem similar to many Austen heroines in that they are often internally reflective, observant, and intelligent.  And I've definitely heard criticisms of Austen novels along the lines of "but these women don't do anything," or "boring", which are similar to the criticisms I've heard of Sansa chapters, to which I reply, 'well then you're not reading it carefully."

Anyway, I think this chapter with the interaction between Cersei and Sansa and Sansa's response to Cersei's comment about ruling with fear, when she thinks that she would rule with love, really gave me the impression that these two characters are meant to be foils of each other.  This is where I got the impression that Sansa will turn out to be the younger, more beautiful queen.

[brashcandy]

I'm very interested in what GRRM is suggesting concerning the power of prayer and how it is used in Sansa's and Arya's arc. As I noted in the recently closed thread, the Lannisters seem to be strangely worried over Sansa's prayers in the godswood and the sept. Now, we could write this off as typical Lannister pettiness and and need for control. They're keeping a girl imprisoned, where she can go nowhere and has no access to help, but this not being enough, they also want to police her innermost private moments and thoughts. However, the Lannisters genuinely seem to fear Sansa's prayers, with Cersei showing outright anger, and Tyrion acting at times bemused and/or generally uncomfortable with the thought of Sansa praying. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but we know that prayer can effect change. Sansa's prayers to the Mother for the Hound to find peace certainly seemed to have had some impact, and IIRC didn't she once pray for a true hero to come rescue her?

Here are some quotes from Tyrion and Cersei on the matter:

Quote

"The next time you visit the godswood, pray that your brother has the wisdom to bend the knee. Once the north returns to the king's peace, I mean to send you home."

I've also been slightly peeved by this request from Tyrion. He's asking her to place her hopes for her salvation on her family's dishonor. I don't know... it just always rubbed me the wrong way.

Then we have another Tyrion quote, this time when Sansa has come to see Joffrey off before the battle and he learns she's going to the sept to pray:

Quote

"I won't ask for whom." His mouth twisted oddly, if that was a smile, it was the queerest she had ever seen.

Tyrion seems very uncomfortable with the idea of Sansa praying, and notes that "This day may change all."

In the current chapter we know how Cersei reacts to the issue:

Quote

"For Stannis. Or your brother, it's all the same. Why else seek your father's gods? You're praying for our defeat. What would you call that, if not treason?"

Clearly, it's not anything close to treason, but Cersei is so paranoid and guilty that she fears Sansa praying to the old gods.

The only reason that Cersei and her brother would have to be so worried about Sansa's prayers seems to be because they know deep down that their war is unjust, and they fear perhaps that earnest, innocent prayers from Sansa will see the gods turn against them.

[childofsummer]

I wonder if it's not so much that the Lannisters fear that Sansa's prayers will be answered as it is that they don't understand her piety.  Sansa's prayers make them profoundly uncomfortable because they really do not see why she prays.  They think the sept is somewhere to go because it's expected that they be seen there and because it's politically necessary.  They haven't experienced the comfort and peace that Sansa does when she prays, whether it's for her brother's success or to gentle the Hound's rage.  Similarly, Catelyn doesn't believe in the old gods, so she doesn't feel comforted in the godswood, while Ned does.  

I find Sansa's spiritual growth interesting, too.  At first, she thinks of the sept as incense and singing, sort of like she values KL for the pageantry.  Later she comes to appreciate the reflective aspects of both the sept and the godswood more.  

Maybe Cersei & co would understand if Sansa were hanging out in the treasury vault?

[brashcandy]

childofsummer, on 25 February 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

I wonder if it's not so much that the Lannisters fear that Sansa's prayers will be answered as it is that they don't understand her piety.  Sansa's prayers make them profoundly uncomfortable because they really do not see why she prays.  They think the sept is somewhere to go because it's expected that they be seen there and because it's politically necessary.  They haven't experienced the comfort and peace that Sansa does when she prays, whether it's for her brother's success or to gentle the Hound's rage.  Similarly, Catelyn doesn't believe in the old gods, so she doesn't feel comforted in the godswood, while Ned does.  

I find Sansa's spiritual growth interesting, too.  At first, she thinks of the sept as incense and singing, sort of like she values KL for the pageantry.  Later she comes to appreciate the reflective aspects of both the sept and the godswood more.  

Maybe Cersei & co would understand if Sansa were hanging out in the treasury vault?

  Littlefinger probably would. Yes her spiritual growth is intriguing and a very important part of her future arc I believe. When she goes to the sept she lights candles at all of the Seven, and the godswood has become a place of comfort and refuge. I think the Lannisters do genuinely fear her prayers might be answered, along with as you said, not understanding her piety. Turning to religion in times of stress and turmoil is not something they would ever think of doing.

[Fragile Bird]

Oh dear, I seem to have run out of "Like This" checkmarks again.   You guys are once again writing too much excellent stuff.  Or I'm just a sucker for intelligent, thoughtful insight, or something like that.

Yes, must find my copy of Northanger Abbey, it's got to be there on the shelf with P&P, S&S, and the rest of them.

The issue of Lannisters and prayer just put an interesting thought in my head - there's a similiar arc happening with Jaime.  When he first came back from the ol' hand chop he's willing to have sex in the sept, but by the time dad dies, he's doing serious time on the honour guard and tells Cersei to bugger off.  Yes, it's a bigger room than the one Joff was in and they could be interrupted, but he's already also had a serious dream on a weirwood stump and then goes off to Riverrun determined to keep his vow to Cat Stark about not doing harm to Starks or Tullys.

And where's Sandor!!!!!

OK, the role of religion in the rest of the series....new thread!  LOL!

Edit:  took out the boring venting

Edited by Fragile Bird, 26 February 2012 - 04:21 AM.

[Caro99]

This chapter is mainly about Cersei vs. Sansa, so I’ll begin with this: Whenever I read this chapter I remember both of these characters dreams of ruling (Sansa besides Joffrey being honored by all, and Cersei on the other hand being rejected by the Iron throne). This chapter highlights strongly that if Sansa is meant to be the future more beautiful queen, then her reign will be a happier and better one that the one Cersei has so far provided (which makes me hope LF won’t end up turning her into a cynical scheming player). From little things like the way both women respond to Lord (Rosby?) coughs to big topics like how to win both men and the small folk to your side George really shows the contrasts between Sansa and the queen here more than in any other scene in the books. I hate how Cersei treats Sansa here of course. Since she can’t really tell to the ladies of the court just what she thinks of them, she “pours out her heart” to Sansa out of disdain for her continuous naiveté even after everything she’s suffered, or because she doesn’t think she can do her much harm even if she went off telling everyone how she was behaving during the battle. I don’t really know why cersei was trying to get sansa drunk. Could be to see what she had to talk about with a loose tongue, or to have her pass out if they lost and so to kill her without any struggling, or perhaps cersei was so jealous of sansa’s composure here she just sort of wanted to punch her in the face and since she couldn’t do that, she wanted to get her drunk for other reasons…?
  I do think that one reason why she allowed Joffrey to bully Sansa so was cause she didn’t want Sansa to rule Joff, but the other way around in case they ever married and she became the new queen. She must have wanted all the strength to be gone from sansa by the time she was crowned in order to eliminate her as a future threat.
  Poor Sansa though, her nightmares are coming to life with Cersei practically stating that if stannis wins, then ser illyn will indeed be chopping her head off as she has feared for so long. If Illyn hadn’t done this though, and Stannis had won, I wonder what would have happened to Sansa’s storyline then..?
  One new thing I learned in this chapter is the possibility that Joanna Lannister may have been quite a different woman from the one I had pictured. If anyone has seen the portrayal of queen jane in the third season of the tudors, then that is exactly how I saw her. nice, kind, obviously smart to know how to manage tywin, but I would never have suspected that she may have accomplished this by using the advise cersei gives sansa.
  We know Cersei resents being a woman, & in this chapter we see it as she dismisses the importance of highborn wives, when it is only their men that matter. With the analysis I came up with the theory that Cersei also convinced Jaime to give up the Rock and take the white cloak to that she could one day (when she was no longer queen and in her middle years) inherit it. She knew her father would never let Tyrion get it, so the only remaining heir was her. She was such a scheming little minx at a young age- in contrast to Sansa whom I don’t think will contest Winterfell from Rickon or Bran.
  Sansa’s northern roots are obviously growing strong on her, not only by her faith on her father’s gods, but also by remembering her parents examples of how they managed to win people’s loyalty: with love not fear. & talking about the old gods, I do believe that both cersei and Tyrion were somehow afraid that sansa’s prayers would be answered, but why then didn’t the forbid her to visit the godswood then? And I am happy that Sansa was brave enough to go there after realizing that each time she wished to return to her rooms, she would have to encounter a member of the KG and this time Sandor would not be around to help her out. With the knowledge of being caught in the back of her mind at these times, and still managing to go, I admire her resolve to at least be doing something to get out of KL. Even here she isn’t acting like one of the ladies from a song (and acting the way Arya would have expected of her) sitting in her room, looking out of the window, sighing as she wondered when her true knight would come and save her from her prison. She is, in the only getaway she can see, trying to get herself out of her imprisonment- if that makes any sense.
--
  We see again that Sansa doesn’t seem to think much of Cersei’s advises (and does not have her sort of cunning nature) when sandor comes in the next chapter, as someone posted before. & when Sansa states how the women’s bodies may be at the room, while her thoughts were out in the fight, along with their heart, I always hope that some tiny part in her here was showing us an insight of her own heart as it worried about a certain man… And I love how she defends in a way Sandor in her mind with the gossip from the washerwomen. We know that the Hound is better than the Kettleblacks because when Cersei threatens one of them to be send to lead a sortie, he seems quite afraid with the prospect, while Sandor is doing this very thing more than once! & quite well.

[childofsummer]

This is slightly off-topic, but I have a lot of trouble keeping the Kettleblacks straight, particularly in this chapter, where they're coming and going so much.  Is Osney the KG one, or is that Osmund?  Or Osfryd?  Osmund was the one who later ended up in Cersei's bed, right?     I wish their father had been more creative with their names!

Sansa's response to the Kettleblacks is interesting to me, too.  As several posters have said, Sansa points out that they're well-liked, and common gossip seems to think they're superior warriors, but Sansa shrewdly thinks that if they were that good, they'd have more of a reputation.

We know they're LF's plants.  Whichever Kettleblack helped escort Sansa to her wedding later on was kind to her.  How much do you think LF told them of his plans?  Do you think they were told to help protect Sansa?  Or to make sure Joff didn't kill her but that her experience in KL was miserable enough to make her glad of LF's future protection?

[voodooqueen126]

Summerqueen, on 24 February 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

So, how do you see this topic informing Sansa's character? would you argue that she is a traditional gothic heroine as opposed to a protagonist of domestic fiction? I would certainly agree that Radcliffe's genre has more convention crossover than the novel of manners.

But I'm not sure i agree with your other conclusions about modernness. It would depend on how you figure such things. Austen is responsible for free indirect discourse, so she is quite an innovator in terms of literary technique, for example. As for topic, Austen depended on subtlety because of her relative dependence. Radcliffe wrote sensational literature that sold quite well. Her independence, by comparison, gave her more room to explore more shocking topics. If you read Pride and Prejudice side by side with A Vindication of the Right of Woman, for example, you might see some interesting correspondences of theme and phrase, though. Despite her Tory tendencies, Austen managed to bring up socio-political realities that warranted social revision.

Even in NA, Austen's Catherine is more subversive than many readers imagine. What comes off as utter nonsense often has an ironic truth lurking beneath the surface. For example when she claims: "I read [history] a little as a duty, but it tells me nothing that does not either vex or weary me. The quarrels of popes and kings, with wars or pestilences, in every page; the men all so good for nothing, and hardly any women at all -- it is very tiresome: and yet I often think it odd that it should be so dull, for a great deal of it must be invention." For any history buff in that time period, this speech sounds frivolous, but the character actually exposes the historical tendencies of silencing other voices (especially women), glorifying violent pursuits (like conquest and holy war), and privileging the winners with editing the official record to make them seem more deserving or worthy. Later, even though we see Catherine's gothic imagination lead her into making mistaken suppositions about her host, her imaginings underscore a psychic reality for the host's family. Being accutely conscious of her economic dependency, Austen must manage her work so that she receives no public backlash for progressive or critical ideas regarding the place of women in her society, an impassioned—if subtle—argument for expanding their political and economical rights, and a rigorous suspicion of texts that privilege a man's view of what is proper for women to read. It's there, if you're looking for it.

Not sure if Sansa can be said to subvert the status quo under cover of seemingly innocuous remarks, but it might make an interesting study.

Edited for typos and clarity.

Well like Radcliffe's heroines, I see Sansa's ulitmate quest to be freedom and independence. Though whilst Radcliffe's heroines had to reject the irrational world of superstition, Sansa must reject the cynical world of Cersei, Tyrion and Littlefinger (see the former two and their fear of Sansa's prayers, see Littlefinger's dismissal of Willas as being 'so pious he would bore you to tears" and "nothing scares people off like a lot of pious bleating") and indeed embrace her faith.
I am not sure if I agree with the introductions assertion that tory=bad. either. Though I don't think that being an innovater in technique would necessarily make someone radical in ideas. After all think of all the post-modern novels that are innovative in technique, but are actually vacant.
It's also true that whilst Catherine's gothic readings cause her to misrepresent the Tilney family as being something out of a gothic romance, but on a psychic level, they are not that different.
So that for all women-whether they are trapped in a gothic castle, like a heroine from Radcliffe or Sansa, or trapped like Eleanor Tilney or Fanny Price in a restrictive environment, the goal is always freedom and independence. In the case of Fanny Price, this is achieved by gaining the love of a worthy man, perhaps the same with Agnes Grey.
I haven't finished reading Northanger Abbey yet so I don't know, will courtesy by Catherine's armour.

Elba the Intoner, on 24 February 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

I think after I finish a reread of ASOIF I have to go re read Northanger Abbey.

Seriously, I love Jane Austen and I think one of the reasons I like Sansa's chapters is because she does seem similar to many Austen heroines in that they are often internally reflective, observant, and intelligent.  And I've definitely heard criticisms of Austen novels along the lines of "but these women don't do anything," or "boring", which are similar to the criticisms I've heard of Sansa chapters, to which I reply, 'well then you're not reading it carefully."

Anyway, I think this chapter with the interaction between Cersei and Sansa and Sansa's response to Cersei's comment about ruling with fear, when she thinks that she would rule with love, really gave me the impression that these two characters are meant to be foils of each other.  This is where I got the impression that Sansa will turn out to be the younger, more beautiful queen.

Well I thought the introduction showed that Sansa was like a Radcliffe heroine, or perhaps  the kind of heroine deconstructed in http://www.readbooko...adOnLine/42607/
Yet, because the ASOIAF has been written in a post-Northanger world,  then the author must deconstruct this ancient, much derided heroine. and the way GRRM does this is that he has Sansa, like Catherine, be a reader of romance, whilst the heroines that George Elliot skewers never deign to read romance.
Unlike Catherine, who is in a perfectly domestic setting and therefore she is misled by her gothic reading, Sansa is in a gothic setting and her experiences basically show her the reality behind being the princess in the romances she loves so well. We could also say that Sansa is wrong Genre savvy, in that trapped in a gothic romance, she initially thought (atleast in AGOT) she was in a Jane Austen novel.

[Summerqueen]

I like this idea that Sansa must feel like she's trapped in the wrong book. I tend to agree with you about the vacuousness of postmodern novels, but they do challenge the assumption that reality feels realistic rather than like an elaborate fiction (many postmodern heroines reflect on their experiences and often conclude that reality feels rather unreal, that life is like a work of fiction in which they have limited agency over their actions and outcomes), and that's an interesting notion to bring to the Sansa discussion because she must constantly juggle her public fictions and hope that her "courtesy armor" will save her. By falling back on courtesy and the conventions of the fictions she grew up investing her imagination in, she may hope to create that reality around her, at least in some small degree. By seeming the well-mannered, innocent girl, she may be hoping to eventually create the climate in which she is treated as such.

As others have remarked, it seems downright strange that we do not see her give her opinions and thoughts more freely in her POV, that she doesn't really consider the very real threat of rape or sexual domination/humiliation. On one hand, we presume her silence is GRRM's tiptoeing around putting adult ideas that could be quite controversial in the head of a girl her age, but on the other, her silence reflects something important about her character. It almost seems that Sansa refuses to admit her circumstances, that reflecting on her helplessness will make it all the more real to her.

Her mis-memories work into that reality. She prevents herself from admitting that she is marrying a monster by convincing herself that Mycah attacked Joffrey, for example. She remembers that Sandor kisses her to convince herself that he really does like her, that what is happening between them has a romantic component and isn't born of dark motives like sheer desire for domination or humiliation (this is not to say there isn't a romantic component, merely that her present reality would challenge her drawing that conclusion without the kiss because of all she's suffered previously at the hands of the KG). The image of the cloak comes into play here, as she cloaks herself in these new memories to make her current reality somehow more acceptable to her. Instead of "going away inside" like Tommen or Jaime, she actively rewrites events in her mind, seemingly to protect herself. It could very well be that her reality feels too real, more cruel than she can stand, and so she creates a more palatable fiction. Conversely, her reality may seem surreal to her, and ripe for reinvention or revision in order for the nightmarish dream-logic of those events to be accepted by her conscious mind.

Well, that's one way of thinking about it anyway. It may be rather obvious by now, but Sansa's chapters (of all the POVs) make me constantly work over what I think is happening and why. That's one of the reasons why I adore them.  My mind is constantly engaged by the various ways to think them through, and every time I rethink them, more complex layers of her character are teased out.

[Raksha the Demon]

I'm not sure that I would have, at Sansa's age, reflected on the threat of rape or sexual domination after Cersei brought up the subject.  My mind would have denied it, or hoped that it would not happen.  Sansa might also have thought on some level that the Hound would protect her from it, as he had saved her from the rioters in King's Landing.

What is more disturbing is Sansa's occasional rewrite of actual events.  She's done so on at least two occasions; one after a somewhat stressful event (the Joffrey/Arya fight, where Sansa was not in actual physical danger, though Joffrey's rage at her, the contempt on his face, bothered her quite a bit), the other after an extremely frightening event (Sandor's invasion of her room, holding his knife to her face; as of AFFC, I think Sansa is still trying to make sense of it in her mind). While rewriting things in one's head to make the events more understandable and in line with one's own opinions of how the world should be ordered, it's a dangerous habit, because it renders one's own memory unreliable.  I think we all do so occasionally, but with less significant matters.  Most girls and young women would not fabricate the memory of a kiss, unless perhaps there was alcohol involved and/or kisses by several partners at a party or some kind of make-out session; at least I don't think so.  

Sansa's rewrite of these two memories each transformed an event which was unexpected and unusual to Sansa.  Sansa did not expect Arya to try to clobber her precious Prince Charming, and she did not expect her precious Prince Charming to chase after Arya in a near-homicidal rage.  Sansa did not expect Sandor to invade her privacy by coming alone to her room and then terrify her by holding a knife to her throat while demanding a song and then weep and leave her.  But it is very important to be able to trust one's memory of traumatic, unexpected events; and Sansa has shown that she cannot necessarily do that; which could definitely weaken her as a future player in the Game of Thrones.

[MaryaStone]

Her point POV chapters in KL offer us a view on the situation there and the interactions between other characters and Sansa herself but don't show us much inner dialogue, IMO. It would be normal for any person in her situation to think about the constant danger she lived in and the tragedy her life had become, but this is not the case, not to the extent we might expect, as if she didn't grasp all the horror she was witnessing and being subjected to. She doesn't even seem fully conscious of how dangerous her situation is, as a hostage when her jailers are at war with her own brother.

This may be a sign of PTDS, as denying a reality which makes the victim hurt too much is quite common in these cases.