Is Tommen going to die?

[ed Lannister]

Sorry but this doesn't even have to go to a "moment of conception" convo. She did NOT have 4 children. The child didn't die at childbirth. She got moontead. So she had three children.. The prophecy said she would have three, and all three would die before her. Not she would have 4 and and three would die. And besides all that clear unadulterated evidence, an unborn child who got the moontea treatment would not be crowned anything. Period.

Tommens dead. GRRM made it more than clear what he was going to do with all three kids as soon as he typed out maggies words.

Liking kittens doesn't get you a pass. Sorry homeslice.

everyone's entitled to interpret the prophesy as they understand it..you clearly have your position and it's your right and to be clear GRRM did not not make it clear that he was going to do away with all the three kids when he added maggies phrophesy twist to his story just like he did not make it clear with the TPTWP many died for that prophesy and it it yet to come true.....

i simply like tommen coz he's never harmed anyone in the westeros.....he get's along fine with everybody so far that he comes across with be it stark's,tyrells,baratheons,lannisters and the best part he's got a knack of making people like him and avoiding precarious doom that engulfs most people in the series(books) that's why i vouch for him to get a pass......the loving of kittens is just a added bonus for him

[Alys Karstark]

Liking kittens doesn't get you a pass. Sorry homeslice.

Balerion the Black Kitten being warged by Bloodraven is an outside bet.

Awww... Poor Tommen... This is probably an accurate depiction of his last moments in TWOW (courtesy of of sir-heartsalot on deviantart.com)

http://sir-heartsalot.deviantart.com/gallery/1525392?offset=72#/d4e80ve

[Ashen Shugar]

:bs:

No one is arguing that Cersei be spared because she is a woman-no one.

"And then the 2-3 people who might feel uncomfortable with the domestic violence situation of Jaime strangling her can forgo such doubts and laugh as the kingslayer murders her."

I took that to mean that when(if) Jamie kills cersie everyone is going to forget that he is a man commiting an act of domestic violence against a woman and laugh at her death. For the reason the GRRM wants to show everyone what happens to women who try to break the mold. My apologies if it is meant otherwise, but if so then I would like a clarification cos it seems pretty blatant if you read the whole post which I replied to.

Cersei lacks empathy, is ruthless and will do anything to keep those she loves safe-even if it means torturing/murdering others. I have not denied her crimes nor do I say that she should not be executed for them.

However, her sleeping with Lancel and Kettleblack do not in any way signify a betrayal of Jamie-she has just one weapon, one source of power and she uses it.

Jamie betrayed her, he deserted her in her hour of need and this, in my opinion gives her the right of revenge.

Remember, he professes to have loved her for nearly all his life and he's going to let her die without so much as trying to save her.

He has never expressed any interest in inheriting Casterly Rock or being Lord Lannister. He has had two loves-knighthood and Cersei-and to imply that he would have turned down the White Cloak if Cersei hadn't asked him to join the KG is rubbish.

Ok it's my turn to wave the BS flag now :)

Her only weapon? She is the queen of westeros, she is rich, she has the power to make life very difficult for a lot of people and the money to buy just about anyone she needs, she did NOT have to sleep with anyone.

He did love her all his life, I'm sure many women would of thrown themselves at him and he turned them all down until he found out she was sleeping with other men besides Robert and himself. I cannot fathom how you do not consider this a betrayal.

She then asked her crippled brother to fight for her one handed which would most likely of ended in his death without ever once worrying about his safety and only thinking of herself.

Anyway basically what you are saying(as far as I can tell) is that sleeping with other men, including your cousin is not a betrayal as long as it is to achieve a goal and not because you want sex.

While not throwing your life away for the person who thought it was ok to fuck anyone that she thought could make things a little easier for her, while knowing she would have protection from the rest of her family(and her son.. THE KING) and have the finest swordsmen in the realm lining up to make a name for themselves, is not only a betrayal but one deserving of death.

How dare Jamie expect the person he has loved and been true to his whole life expect the same from her.

anyways. lol, feminist double standards.

Back on topic, I don't see how the prophecy can be read in any other way than all cersies kids dying before her.. I guess it could be like someone said and she will believe him to be dead but he wont be.. but most likely he's toast.

[Bubbles]

Her only weapon? She is the queen of westeros, she is rich, she has the power to make life very difficult for a lot of people and the money to buy just about anyone she needs, she did NOT have to sleep with anyone.

He did love her all his life, I'm sure many women would of thrown themselves at him and he turned them all down until he found out she was sleeping with other men besides Robert and himself. I cannot fathom how you do not consider this a betrayal.

She then asked her crippled brother to fight for her one handed which would most likely of ended in his death without ever once worrying about his safety and only thinking of herself.

Anyway basically what you are saying(as far as I can tell) is that sleeping with other men, including your cousin is not a betrayal as long as it is to achieve a goal and not because you want sex.

While not throwing your life away for the person who thought it was ok to fuck anyone that she thought could make things a little easier for her, while knowing she would have protection from the rest of her family(and her son.. THE KING) and have the finest swordsmen in the realm lining up to make a name for themselves, is not only a betrayal but one deserving of death.

How dare Jamie expect the person he has loved and been true to his whole life expect the same from her.

anyways. lol, feminist double standards.

Back on topic, I don't see how the prophecy can be read in any other way than all cersies kids dying before her.. I guess it could be like someone said and she will believe him to be dead but he wont be.. but most likely he's toast.

I agree, she didnt have to sleep with Lancel or the Osmund to keep Tommen or any of her children safe.

As much as i hate to say it, yes, I think Tommen will die. It will break my heart when it happens but he will die. Myrcella has better odds of surviving to the end. I dont rely so much on the prophecy (in case of Melisandre we have seen that prophecies can have a lot of meanings) but on the fact that Cersei would rather be dead than not being queen.

[The Butler of Tarth]

"And then the 2-3 people who might feel uncomfortable with the domestic violence situation of Jaime strangling her can forgo such doubts and laugh as the kingslayer murders her."

So if Cersei got killed by, let's say, Aegon it would be better? Because it's not 'domestic violence'?

Back on topic - as one of the last genuinely decent people in House Lannister Tommen is marked for death. The question is not 'if' but who' and 'how'? My money is still on the Tyrells (or possibly Tarlys) 'pulling a Tywin' in the wake of Aegon's approaching forces.

[redriver]

Anyone who tries to kill Tommen will be ravaged by a swarm of vengeful kittens.

They are Direkittens.

[RaiyneStark]

He is sweet and innocent so I hope he lives.

The prophecy has been pretty accurate thus far, but remember Bran and Rickon are "dead" also, so maybe Tommen will live, but Cersei will think he's dead. I could see Tyrion protecting Tommen if that is within his power once he returns to Westeros.

[Vandalism]

Cersei killing Tommen would be like the culmination of her insanity.

[Anna Targaryen]

most likely he will die

no one want a rival even from a child

just like what happend with the targs children

[Lizaveta Martell]

Her only weapon? She is the queen of westeros, she is rich, she has the power to make life very difficult for a lot of people and the money to buy just about anyone she needs, she did NOT have to sleep with anyone.

He did love her all his life, I'm sure many women would of thrown themselves at him and he turned them all down until he found out she was sleeping with other men besides Robert and himself. I cannot fathom how you do not consider this a betrayal.

She then asked her crippled brother to fight for her one handed which would most likely of ended in his death without ever once worrying about his safety and only thinking of herself.

Anyway basically what you are saying(as far as I can tell) is that sleeping with other men, including your cousin is not a betrayal as long as it is to achieve a goal and not because you want sex.

She is quite obviously not rich. The throne is in debt to everyone. You might argue that she could borrow the money from Tywin, but he's shown himself to not give a fuck about Cersei or her leadership role. He probably wouldn't give her money directly and Cersei, as a widow, would not have a right to the Lannister money in the same way that Tyrion does. That's probably the reason he plans on outspending her for sellsword loyalty.

I'm not sure what you would have had Cersei do to inspire loyalty in the callous, selfish people in court. Do you think they care that she's the Queen? Are they patriots? No, of course not. They aren't going to serve her without something for themselves. Sex, unlike money, doesn't cost Cersei anything. After her screwed up family life, I doubt she really feels anything toward sex.

It's not a feminist double standard to say that Cersei's behavior comes from somewhere. She didn't spring fully formed from the ground, with her paranoia and bitterness already in place. Yes, obviously, she is a shitty person. Is she a shitty person for a reason? yes. Is she a shitty person because she slept with a few guys (3?4?) to get what she needed? no.

[Russ8771]

The Tyrells are probably one of the biggest threats to Tommen, because you know that if Aegon is at all successful they'll pull a Tywin and kill Tommen and Myrcella to curry favor with the new regime -- and to have an available "unmarried" virgin daughter.

OR, Myrcella and Tommen are going to be victims of symmetry, Myrcella dying for Rhaenys and Tommen dying for infant Aegon. I wonder if Cersei will be in the throne room when someone places their dead and battered bodies, wrapped in Baratheon gold, at Aegon's/Dany's/Stannis'/[monarch of your choice's] feet.

Hope the Tyrells do that, only to find out Aegon married Arianna already, and couldn't care less what they did. Question is, do they try to marry Willias or Garlan to Dany then?

[Queen Beyond the Wall]

Assuming the prophecy is spot on, he must die first or she doesn't have a crown...

Not if the Dornish successfully crown her!!

[LifeRuiner]

Question is, do they try to marry Willias or Garlan to Dany then?

Garlan is happily married. And as it's been mentioned, the Tyrells have other ways to separate themselves from Tommen than murder.

[Loras]

I have this horrible feeling that Tommen is going to be executed when Aegon or Dany take King's Landing. It will mirror the scene at the Red Wedding when Catelyn witnesses Robb's death.

As mentioned earlier, Tommen has to die to lower the chances of any other rebellions.

[Winter's Knight]

I have this horrible feeling that Tommen is going to be executed when Aegon or Dany take King's Landing. It will mirror the scene at the Red Wedding when Catelyn witnesses Robb's death.

As mentioned earlier, Tommen has to die to lower the chances of any other rebellions.

I fee it will mirror Aegon and Rhaenys' death :(

To symbolise the full circle of violence.

[Not A Lannister]

Garlan is happily married. And as it's been mentioned, the Tyrells have other ways to separate themselves from Tommen than murder.

The only problem I see with an attempt to propose Willas to Dany, is the fact that Willas is "crippled". If it were I who was offered Willas I'd over look the bum leg but Dany seems the sort to use it as a way to refuse Willas as being "weak" and not worthy of her.

Though if it were Garlan (The strong Handsome(?) Knight) She may consider it, alas (good for him actually) he's happily married.

[Grail King]

He will die.And Sansa will be the one behind it.

Are you saying Sansa will do the deed or have someone else do it?

She liked Tommen, killing innocent kids isn't in her bones, killing Joffery and Cersei are well in her rage to kill, along with Tywin and Jamie and even Tyrion if he makes a move to forcefully get WF through her.

[Ashen Shugar]

She is quite obviously not rich. The throne is in debt to everyone. You might argue that she could borrow the money from Tywin, but he's shown himself to not give a fuck about Cersei or her leadership role. He probably wouldn't give her money directly and Cersei, as a widow, would not have a right to the Lannister money in the same way that Tyrion does. That's probably the reason he plans on outspending her for sellsword loyalty. I'm not sure what you would have had Cersei do to inspire loyalty in the callous, selfish people in court. Do you think they care that she's the Queen? Are they patriots? No, of course not. They aren't going to serve her without something for themselves. Sex, unlike money, doesn't cost Cersei anything. After her screwed up family life, I doubt she really feels anything toward sex. It's not a feminist double standard to say that Cersei's behavior comes from somewhere. She didn't spring fully formed from the ground, with her paranoia and bitterness already in place. Yes, obviously, she is a shitty person. Is she a shitty person for a reason? yes. Is she a shitty person because she slept with a few guys (3?4?) to get what she needed? no.

So what if the throne is in debt? The US was in debt under Bush, he's still a multi-millionaire, Obama ain't doin it tough either. Even if somehow she didn't have private wealth(and I don't see why she wouldn't, someone of her position would have no shortage of valuable gifts offered to her), she could probably buy half an army just with the jewellery she owns.

What I'd have Cersie do? Not that it matters, but do you really doubt there would of been a lack of opportunists eager to impress the kings mother?

Anyways it doesn't matter for 2 reasons, one being she would of had personal wealth to pay whoever she needed to.. just like most men in her position would of done, and second(and more important) being, whether it was her only option to gain power or not is irrelevant to Jaime being betrayed in a huge way.

What's the world come to?? sex unlike money costs her nothing? So she took the cheaper option and Jamie is supposed to be ok with that? It seems to be costing her an awful lot though. ;)

No it's not a feminist double standard to say Cersie's behaviour comes from somewhere.. who suggested that it was?

The original femenist double standard(fds) was when a poster labled Cers as being a character that was designed by the author to show that women should know there place and if they try to achieve equality in the male dominated society they are pretty much shat on and shown to be fools, with the readers eventually being manipulated to cheering for her death due to her audacity. And then went on to lable the act of Jaime strangling her as domestic abuse, implying that if we were morally good people we would look down on Jamie killing her, because she is a woman.

The second FDS was when another poster agreed with the first FDS and went further stating she believed that Cersie sleeping with other men was not cheating on Jamie in any way, yet Jaime not trying to save Cersie (which he probably couldn't do even if he did want to) was not only a betrayal but one that Cersie should, or at least would be perfectly within her rights to kill him for it.

The third FDS was when you failed to recognise the blatant hypocrisy.

[Lizaveta Martell]

I think that sleeping with other people is significantly less immoral than letting your sister die. Such a "double standard". Particularly because the reason it's supposed to be oh so important to Jaime that she slept with other people is that he loves her. Frankly, I think his love is shallow and unrealistic if he would prefer her to die.

So yeah, I don't think Cersei sleeping with other people is a huge betrayal. I don't believe in sexual fidelity. Plus, Jaime didn't hold it against her when she had to sleep with Robert. She probably assumed he was used to her position as a sex object for power.

Of course Cersei is judged for being a woman. Everyone (even GRRM) seems to be fixated on her sexual life in a frankly perverse way. Tyrion can whore his way across two continents and we never doubt that he "loves" Tysha. Tywin can murder children and orchestrate the Red Wedding and no one seems to focus on his sex life.

Additionally, the US can run a deficit because we are a modern, banking, bureaucratic democracy who can to some degree control our rate of interest on federal debt. The Middle Ages did not have the same latitude with borrowing money.

[TomBombadil]

He must.