13 replies to this topic

[Sword of the Morning]

I felt that this is a legitimately new topic of discussion as it resets the bar for previous value of a matching lettered set and merits some serious discussion of the future of the Meisha/SP sets and their value against the backdrop of the rising popularity of A Song of Ice and Fire.


I've negotiated the sale of my matching Lettered Song of Ice and Fire set Meisha and Subterranean for 15,000 cash.  That is NOT INCLUDING Paypal fees.

I sold my matching numbered set to the same buyer for 5000 cash which is not top dollar (as one did sell to someone on this board last year for 5500) but this is again cash whereas the 5500 sale was on Ebay and thus real word profit was only about 5200 dollars, 200 more than I received for mine.

The buyer will of course remain anonymous but this was a private sale negotiated off Ebay.  20,000 is not paid in one lump sum but first downpayment of 5k has already been received.  I will keep both sets until full price is paid at which point the buyer will fly to my location to take possession in person.  At that point, rights will be transferred formally from me to him via emails to Bill of SP.

So . . . huge sale, new record.

For those of you with matching lettered sets thinking of selling, please use this information as a guideline for what the new bar is now.  Last year's bar was set at 10,000, early 2012, we have raised it to15,000.

Take care guys!

Discussion welcome.

Dennis

P.S.: Buyer has full awareness and understanding that Subterranean Press will be re-releasing their own versions of Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings.  Buyer feels this does not significantly impact the value of the Meisha versions and that a FULL set still needs to include the Meishas as well especially considering the stature of the artists (Jeffrey Jones and John Howe) commissioned for them.

Edited by Sword of the Morning, 24 February 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[The_Wolfbrother]

Wow. *Utterly baffled, trying to regain composure*

Well, I hope the buyer will share his views here as well. Fifteen grand is two-three more than I would have guessed for the the lettered, but still seems reasonable as things have been going. But damn, that's alot of money.

I still stand firm on 5k being the going rate for the limited set. The one on ebay that was priced at 6k or best offer is now put down to 5.8 or best offer. If will NOT fetch more than 5.5, and likely less.

I agree that the TV series has made more fans, thus adding to the price, but I think the bulk of new fans was made after season 1. There will be a steady stream of new readers as the show continues, but not in the scale we have had until now. There has been too many sets available for a long while, so I'm still certain a limited set with Dance preordered has a value of 4.8-5.5. And I think it will stay that way until - either Dance reaches new owners shelfs, or the new GoT gets up for preorder.

so all in all, I think you fetched a fine price. And I think the buyer fetched a fine price. Just the way it should be.

[Sword of the Morning]

I agree Wolfbrother.  I do think that the HBO series has yet to hit its stride because there are some very large set pieces and climaxes in the future like the Red Wedding coming along which should take the series to new heights.

Also, there are two more books at least to be released in the book series and each one is a bigger and bigger event.

So, I do believe there are a LOT  more potential new fans that will flock to the series and of these, a few will be willing to spend big money on the most exclusive George Martin collectibles in existence:  the Meisha/SP matching sets.

Some people want to do something once in a lifetime.

Before I sealed the deal with this buyer, I had another individual from Norway who was being discharged from the armed forces.  He received a discharge bonus.  Some waste it, some use it as a down payment for a car, for him what makes him the happiest was this set.

Another person was changing jobs and was willing to commit the bonus from that job change toward these books.

My brother in law bought an M3 for himself before he became a new father.

Other people buy jewelry or statues.

There will be some where that money will be spent on these books.

This buyer is likely going to keep these books for a lifetime.   But if not, I suspect in 10 years time when Martin has hopefully finished the series, when HBO has completed their run, and the entire matched set from SP and Meisha is done,  that he won't regret the 20,000 he spent this year.

[Justinian]

I thank you and my matching lettered set thanks you, man.

[Darth Vader's Bastard]

Is there a picture of this?

[Xray the Enforcer]

congratulations to the both of you on the transaction.

[BoldAsYouPlease]

Sword of the Morning, on 24 February 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

P.S.: Buyer has full awareness and understanding that Subterranean Press will be re-releasing their own versions of Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings.  Buyer feels this does not significantly impact the value of the Meisha versions and that a FULL set still needs to include the Meishas as well especially considering the stature of the artists (Jeffrey Jones and John Howe) commissioned for them.

This is good to know, thank you for the data point - I can certainly understand Subterranean's reasons for issuing their own versions of AGoT and ACoK, but it adds some real uncertainty about what buyers will consider to be complete sets in the future and what the price trajectory of the MMs will be if they are no longer considered part of a complete set.

So the new benchmark is $15k for a lettered set - I saw this projected in these forums, and it's very nice to see. Congrats to you and your buyer.

Edited by BoldAsYouPlease, 02 March 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[Sword of the Morning]

Thank you.  It is definitely a major benchmark and a once in a lifetime event for both of us.

I don't think it can be argued that the creation of the Subterranean versions of the first two books are going to hurt the value SOMEWHAT.  I already know of at least two buyers who decided against buying my matched numbered set because one found an UNMATCHED set for cheaper and another already owned an UNMATCHED set.

Their rationale?  Since SP was releasing their own versions of 1 and 2, they would soon have a "SP matched" set and that was good enough for them especially when a true matching set would cost several thousand more.

However, I also think it can't be argued that a TRUE matched set MUST include the Meisha versions as well.

In my opinion, the Meisha versions are just BETTER LOOKING books.   The size, the quality, the extra little frills added and of course you've got Jeffrey Jones and John Howe illustrating them.  The only advantage the SP versions have would be that they match the rest of the series in size and look, that's basically it.

In the long run, I think the Meisha versions will continue to hold their value because in addition to their collectability, they are just flat out incrediblly beautiful books.

[The_Wolfbrother]

To add insult to SP, their SoS slipcase is unstamped and will differ from the rest. So, MM will have two matching books, and subpress will eventually have six matching, and one not matching.

Thus making SP's reason for re-issuing the first two books retarded.

[Sword of the Morning]

Well, if you really want me to get going, there are a host of reasons I've been dissatisfied with the SP treatment.

When the opportunity came to pick the ball up from Meisha, SP could have opted to continue with the parameters set up by the previous publisher to maintain optimal continuity.  True they didn't HAVE to do that but it would have been a mark of respect for the people who bought these books.  Instead, Bill decided to completely do his own thing and gave us a volume that in no way matched the earlier Meisha versions.

1.  Completely different sizes.  Much smaller.  I really disliked that, I don't like my limited edition books to be "library membership" size.

2.  Two Volumes instead of One.  Why?  For my LIMTED EDITION, DELUXE books, I would prefer a nice large bound volume.  It's obviously possible since they've done it forever for Lord of the Rings. Why give us two smaller volumes for Storm of Swords?

Bill's response at the time was because he found it MUCH more comfortable to read a smaller volume in his hand.

Sorry but the idiocy of that comment can't be overstated.  Was he joking or did he really think his customers were that dumb?  Who in their right minds actually READ these hundred dollar books which are now worth several thousand?  Also, is it fair that just because he decided to read them that he would then impose a design decision on the 500 of us who don't necessarily share his views?

To add insult to injury, he then announced that all further volumes in the set would also be split into 2 volumes as well regardless of length.

Feast for Crows isn't much longer than Game of Thrones but we get 2 volumes of that as well.  No doubt future editions of Game of Thrones and Clash will be 2 volumes as well.

The true reason for this decision may never be known but my suspicion is that perhaps it is cheaper to bind two volumes than one very large volume.  I don't know.

3. The slipcase.  For Storm of Swords, the books fit VERY tightly into the slipcase.  So much so that it is essentially impossible to put Broadart covers on your books and have them fit comfortably in that slipcase.  Again, bad design.

Even worse, the decision NOT to have nice gilt lettering on the spine of the books? Why?  Again, Bill never explained.

There was such an uproar, he even considered ordered the slipcases done again.  Or having some weird sticker version sent out so we could put it on.  It was a fiasco but in the end, as with many things, he simply decided to ignore the issue.  It's worth noting that the next volumes had the lettering on the spines.

4.  The worst ever.  Editorial mistake and a block of text from the Prologue was struck out of the SP version of Storm of Swords.  How this utterly stupid oversight could have occurred is beyond me but for a supposed "definitive" version of one of the best fantasy books of this past decade, it is a rather fatal error, isn't it?   I can't remember the reason why this happend but whatever it was, it remains inexcusable.

Of course, most owners have no idea this is an issue since 90% plus of people DON'T FUCKING READ these books but I found it ridiculously ironic that the justification for one bad decision (easier reading so split the book into 2 volumes) is a crossroads with a fatal problem (missing text from the book so if one were to truly read it, one would become infuriated).

5.  No sewn in bookmark.

6.  No gilt edges.

7.  Literally almost NO differentiation between lettered set and numbered set. At least Meisha had an extra endplate illustration on their cover, gold gilt on all sides vs 1, and an extra remarque.

All SP had was the extra remarque and different color slipcase.

They offered traycases for other lettered sets but decided agaisnt it for Song of Ice and Fire.  Why?  Because it wouldn't match???  Sorry but I think that ship sailed a while back.


I am a big George RR Martin fan and a BIG, BIG fan of Storm of Swords. This is bar none the best book in the series and one of the best works of epic fantasy in the past decade.   It should have deserved the grandest, best special edition treatment ever and instead got shit on with second rate treatment and attention to detail.  That book deserved A LOT better than what it got.

I'm probably uneducated in this regard but I'm convinced the majority of these decisions were made for one reason and one reason only:  cost.

I've said it before and I feel very comfortable saying it now.  If Subterranean Press really cared about the fans, their reputation, and the integrity of the books, they should have eaten the cost and redone the ENTIRE Storm of Swords limited edition.  Given us slipcases that matched with the rest of the series and corrected that horrendous mistake which resulted in MISSING TEXT from their final edition.

But no, that's not what this is about and it's never been about that.  It's been about the bottom line.  So instead we get the nice money grab and NEW editions of Game and Clash which my friends you can lay money down will NOT be anywhere NEAR as nice as the Meisha versions.

Sorry to vent my spleen again but these were HUGE issues when Storm was first released and there was MAJOR bitterness at that time from many of us who owned these sets.

To be fair, the books are still incredible quality of course and Tom Cany and Charles Vess are big names in fantasy art but for the money being charged, that is to be expected.

Anyway, it's the only game in town and these remain the crown jewels of any Martin collection but people need to know the history and details before making comparisons between the two.

There's nothing to be done about that now of course but I refuse to let these issues be swept under the rug and for them to just "go away."  They are more outrageous in light of the fact that part of the justification for making "new" versions of Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings is to re-establish continuity of appearance to the series and that the effort was "for the fans" to finish their broken sets.

For more details, please reference this link which outlines in greater and more precise detail what I have mentioned:

http://www.awfulbook... Swords, A.html

It's a worthwhile read and was put together by a collector of books who was a member here but no longer participates.

[Josh]

Just an FYI, and I don't know how many people have noticed this, but there is misplaced text in the Meisha edition of Clash of Kings. On page 89 or 90, (its at the very end of an Arya chapter, right before the Jon chapter starts) it has some misplaced text. It's during a line that Yoren is saying, and it abruptly has the first few lines from the next Jon chapter placed in there, before continuing with the correct text.

[Sword of the Morning]

Thanks Josh for that.  I wasn't aware of that and doubt many are since few would risk reading these editions.

Clash of Kings also had the infamous limitation error where Game of Thrones was placed there instead of Clash.

All things considered though, I am still more accepting of text errors that are ADDITIONS (although they are very annoying as well) versus an entire block of text that is simply missing.

[Josh]

Yeah I mean it still doesn't take away from some of the odd decisions that SP decided to go through with, but what are ya gonna do right?  The SP editions are what we get, and there are still nice things about them.  The lack of stamping on the slipcase for Storm still drives me nuts though.

[kkemikk]

If we wanted best looking books, Hill House should have made them. But we all know what happened to them....

Edited by kkemikk, 05 March 2012 - 03:51 PM.