69 replies to this topic

[Blisscraft]

The direwolves south of the Wall begin the story.  It is rare.  It is a sign that something is coming from the North.  Times are changing.  The old way is reasserting itself in the South.

House Stark is of the blood of the First Men.  The old blood; the old way.  The sigil is a direwolf.  The number of the pups is the same as the number of the Stark children plus Jon. I can't think of anyone South of the Wall who doesn't have the blood of the First Men who can warg.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

[ForgottenFace]

Morrigan, on 21 April 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

Even Sansa? If so, I wonder how her ability will emerge...

I always thought the Stark children had become wargs because of the direwolves., And, seeing as Sansa lost hers, she couldn't be one anymore.

"Give her a dog, she'll be happier for it." She has a dog in AFFC (or is it aSoS) and the dog is very protective or her, if I remember correctly.

[evita mgfs]

The Imp With A Pimp Limp, on 21 April 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Sansa will warg into some kind of bird. It is known. Look at all the bird imagery plus the fact that she lives in the vale, where the sigil of the biggest house is a falcon plus the fact that she's a confirmed warg

People stop looking at genes and skipping generations, it doesn't work like that look at this ssm. This should settle the issue.

It is known.  Sansa is Hound's "little bird".

[nQthing]

Ned might have been a warg. But he has too much honor to take control of another life. His honor was always his weakness

[Jon Mark Selmy]

Plem, on 26 February 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

I don't think that logic applies here. At least three of his children (that's three out of six) are wargs - Jon, Bran and Arya. Maybe Sansa would have been one too if Lady hadn't died so soon. And we don't know about Robb or Rickon since we never get their POV.

I don't think Sansa would have been a warg. As Robb wasn't one either. Only Jon, Arya, Bran and Rickon have 'the wolf' on them as it is hinted at by they having the Stark look, while Robb and Sansa have the Tully look.

And Ned probably wasn't one eihter (as he's the one commenting about the whole 'wolf in them' thing... another point where this is hinted at if you pay atention) or rather just never awake it, since he is by far more 'civilized' and less instinct than most of his sons.

Edited by Jon Mark Selmy, 15 July 2012 - 09:05 PM.

[What Is Dead Already Died]

Most theories on here that are widely believed here (R+L) have hints scattered throughout the books. This is just random guessing. Yes his kids are wargs but no where is it mentioned that this is a trait passed down through genes, and there is no indication that Ned even knew much or anything about wargs.

[Targaryen Northman]

seems like it depends on how occupied the human wargs mind is. bran has nothing to do all day but sleep and sit there so his mind developed fast. at the complete opposite robb was leading an army constantly busy and busy mind and going places. no time to learn. all the other kids seem to fall in between those 2 extremes.

maybe benjen is a warg. maybe he is mormonts crow

[Winterfell is Burning]

Jon Mark Selmy, on 15 July 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

I don't think Sansa would have been a warg. As Robb wasn't one either. Only Jon, Arya, Bran and Rickon have 'the wolf' on them as it is hinted at by they having the Stark look, while Robb and Sansa have the Tully look.

And Ned probably wasn't one eihter (as he's the one commenting about the whole 'wolf in them' thing... another point where this is hinted at if you pay atention) or rather just never awake it, since he is by far more 'civilized' and less instinct than most of his sons.

Bran and Rickon have the Tully look as well.

And Grey Wind and Lady followed their owners as much as any of the others while they lived, there's no reason to assume otherwise.

[OneTrueSteve]

Jon Mark Selmy, on 15 July 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

I don't think Sansa would have been a warg. As Robb wasn't one either. Only Jon, Arya, Bran and Rickon have 'the wolf' on them as it is hinted at by they having the Stark look, while Robb and Sansa have the Tully look.

Entirely aside from the fact that Martin has clearly said that all the Stark children are wargs, Robb seemed to pretty clearly be warging Greywolf, although he didn't realize it.  The wolf reacted to his emotions, even when he wasn't nearby and co-ordinated perfectly with him in battle.

And I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that only Arya and Jon have the Stark look, everybody else (including Bran) is said to have Tully features.

Edited by OneTrueSteve, 15 July 2012 - 11:18 PM.

[Impin'ain'teasy]

I might need to re-read it, but didn't Arya's abilities awaken when she was blinded?

[Dr. Pepper]

Impin, on 15 July 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

I might need to re-read it, but didn't Arya's abilities awaken when she was blinded?

She was able to warg/connect with Nymeria when she was still in Westeros.  She wasn't able to skinchange other animals until she was made blind.

[Alia of the knife]

Jon and Arya who are mentioned as most "Stark-like" may have their abilities because they are more in tune with the Old Ways and the Old gods, and that could come from Brandon and Lyanna.
(It is possible to take after Aunts and Uncles as much as parents).

I think Ned has it, but it's latent, and actually, he's least Stark-like, having been fostered in the South amongst Southerners.
He even married Caitlyn in the Seven though he does follow the Old gods, (though someone suggested that because he married in the Seven, his children with Caitlyn would be unlikely to get the blessing of the Old gods as Kings of the North, but if Rhaegar married Lyanna in the Old gods, then Jon is more likely to have the annointing of the Old gods as King of the North, though he's perceived a bastard).

I think it's a well-known and uncomfortable fact in the South that Northerners could have "blasphemous" ways, and the Starks chief among them.
Warging, while feared beyond the Wall and in the North is respected, (the Boltens flayed people to ape the Starks abilities), but in the South, it's looked upon almost like today's idea of witchcraft, and if suspected and proven, could possibly get you executed.

Edited by Alia of the knife, 16 July 2012 - 12:00 AM.

[Apple Martini]

Dr. Pepper, on 15 July 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

She was able to warg/connect with Nymeria when she was still in Westeros.  She wasn't able to skinchange other animals until she was made blind.

There's a theory that it takes some physical and/or mental trauma to REALLY awaken someone's skinchanging abilities. Like, if it's there, it can be tapped (like Robb and Sansa's experiences), but that this trauma would "activate" it on a deeper level. Examples being Bran opening his third eye after being crippled, Arya expanding her skinchanging abilities after being blinded, and the possibility that Jon finally embraces his warging ability after being stabbed.

Robb's experience with Grey Wind, despite him not having a POV, suggests to me a pretty deep, solid skinchanging ability, and it amazes me that Robb's one whom people write off as not having the gift.

Edited by Apple Martini, 16 July 2012 - 12:16 AM.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

Apple Martini, on 16 July 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

Robb's experience with Grey Wind, despite him not having a POV, suggests to me a pretty deep, solid skinchanging ability, and it amazes me that Robb's one whom people write off as not having the gift.

there are a couple scenes where they seem to be one in the same. when he barely whispers a word and grey wind bites off the Greatjons fingers, Grey WInd just as easily could have ripped his throat out, but he went for the hand. Any time Catelyn sees Grey WInd with Robb they seem to be entirely in sync with eachother. I definitely think Robb can warg. Sansa is the only one i'm not sure about, because I think Rickon can do it to, he just hasnt figured it out yet. Him and his wolf are exactly the same as well.

[Apple Martini]

Rhaegar Targaryen, on 16 July 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

there are a couple scenes where they seem to be one in the same. when he barely whispers a word and grey wind bites off the Greatjons fingers, Grey WInd just as easily could have ripped his throat out, but he went for the hand. Any time Catelyn sees Grey WInd with Robb they seem to be entirely in sync with eachother. I definitely think Robb can warg. Sansa is the only one i'm not sure about, because I think Rickon can do it to, he just hasnt figured it out yet. Him and his wolf are exactly the same as well.

GRRM's words suggest that all six Stark children, including Sansa, are wargs. I'm sure her time will come.

[Completely Headless Ned]

if he was, it was untapped power. He never had a animal that he was close too. And AFAIK there's no evidence in his pov to show that he had any supernatural ability.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

Apple Martini, on 16 July 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

GRRM's words suggest that all six Stark children, including Sansa, are wargs. I'm sure her time will come.

i think the key to untapping their abilities was through their Direwolves though. i'm not sure what situation Sansa could find herself in where she realizes her abilities.

[Apple Martini]

Rhaegar Targaryen, on 16 July 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

i think the key to untapping their abilities was through their Direwolves though. i'm not sure what situation Sansa could find herself in where she realizes her abilities.

I think that Lady's death might have stalled or postponed Sansa's development, but I don't believe it cut off her ability entirely. I actually suspect that Sansa's ability might be more subtle and could actually be called "empathy" more so than actual skinchanging. Example being when she's able to calm the ladies down in the Maidenvault during the Blackwater — it was almost like she was single-handedly able to calm people down.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

Apple Martini, on 16 July 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

I think that Lady's death might have stalled or postponed Sansa's development, but I don't believe it cut off her ability entirely. I actually suspect that Sansa's ability might be more subtle and could actually be called "empathy" more so than actual skinchanging. Example being when she's able to calm the ladies down in the Maidenvault during the Blackwater — it was almost like she was single-handedly able to calm people down.

thats actually a really cool way of looking at that. i wonder if GRRM would continue to expand on that in a more obvious way if that is the direction he wants to go.

[callmedodge]

He warged into a butterfly just before he died and is now roaming Westeros plotting his revenge.

No one suspects the butterfly.