468 replies to this topic

[Lummel]

Screaming Knight, on 04 March 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

... I think Jon was  reminded of rhaegar at that moment. Like aegon being a young rhaegar.

Except those of us who don't believe that Aegon is rhaegar's son read that passage and think how different Aegon is from Rhaegar, in fact he seems nothing like the way that Rhaegar is described.

[dtones520]

Lummel, on 04 March 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

Except those of us who don't believe that Aegon is rhaegar's son read that passage and think how different Aegon is from Rhaegar, in fact he seems nothing like the way that Rhaegar is described.

Rhaegar never raised Aegon, not sure how a kid can act like a person he never knew. Also, if we are talking about fathers having different personalities than their son, look no further than Aerys and Rhaegar.

[Lummel]

Yes but at that moment we get a comparison between alleged father and son in the mind of Jon Connington.  Just as he with loving tenderness recalls this precious moment with his beloved Rhaegar he is confronted with the brash and simplistic reality of the alleged son, and what we are shown from Jon Connington's perspective are two totally different people.

GRRM could have written that moment to underline a similarity, to re-enforce a sense of connection, to demonstrate a deep, inner relationship.  He doesn't.  He has ever loyal, ever true, Jon Connington notice how completely different and unrelated these two people are.

[Dragonfish]

Ser Lepus, on 03 March 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Well, they were working in secret. Daemon II sailed to Westeros and started contacting those who fought for his father, so maybe publicy supporting him (drawing Bloodraven attention towards him) before they were ready to start the new rebellion would have been dangerous. Or maybe Daemon II was impatient and started without Bittersteel approval.

IIRC, Daemon II had contacted Bittersteel to obtain his support, but he refused. It is implied (or outright stated, I can't remember) that Bittersteel was hoping that Daemon would die so that Haegon would become the new heir.

[the Scorpion Knight]

Lummel, on 04 March 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

Except those of us who don't believe that Aegon is rhaegar's son read that passage and think how different Aegon is from Rhaegar, in fact he seems nothing like the way that Rhaegar is described.

but in the meaning of the sentences Father and son are close in taste

[Lummel]

One thinks the lands are beautiful, the other likes his castle...

[Chacho88]

i dont think aegon has seen a proper castle before his entire life, since he's been away from westeros so long, id be amazed by it too if ive never seen one, same was ygritte is in awe of queenscrown

[Ser Lepus]

Lummel, on 04 March 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

One thinks the lands are beautiful, the other likes his castle...

Chacho88, on 04 March 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

i dont think aegon has seen a proper castle before his entire life, since he's been away from westeros so long, id be amazed by it too if ive never seen one, same was ygritte is in awe of queenscrown

Yes. Rhaegar is being polite, saying "those woods are nice" the same way I would say to a friend "I like your roses" as a compliment.
Aegon was more like "wow, a real castle, it´s huge".

[the Scorpion Knight]

Chacho88, on 04 March 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

i dont think aegon has seen a proper castle before his entire life, since he's been away from westeros so long, id be amazed by it too if ive never seen one, same was ygritte is in awe of queenscrown

he didn't see westoris castles but he saw the ruins of the rhoynar

[kg1982]

Chacho88, on 04 March 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

i dont think aegon has seen a proper castle before his entire life, since he's been away from westeros so long, id be amazed by it too if ive never seen one, same was ygritte is in awe of queenscrown

He's lived in Essos his entire life and travelled around the Free Cities.  ADWD makes it pretty clear that those in Essos, especially the Free Cities, think that Westros is a podunk backwater.  I highly doubt that fakeAegon would be impressed by a minor castle after seeing the Titan of Braavos or the ruins of Rhoynar would be in awe of the castle of a minor lord.

[Ser Lepus]

kg1982, on 04 March 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

He's lived in Essos his entire life and travelled around the Free Cities.  ADWD makes it pretty clear that those in Essos, especially the Free Cities, think that Westros is a podunk backwater.  I highly doubt that fakeAegon would be impressed by a minor castle after seeing the Titan of Braavos or the ruins of Rhoynar would be in awe of the castle of a minor lord.

Seeing a ruin or a public monument is different from entering the private castle of somebody you know. I have seen many monuments and buildings which dwarfs medieval castles, but if a friend of mine took me to his private castle, I would feel impressed.

Edited by Ser Lepus, 04 March 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[Chacho88]

yea in essos and the free cities they dont have proper castles, they may be more elegant but thier not the same, tyrion reflects on this when he is there in illriyos

[kg1982]

Chacho88, on 04 March 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

yea in essos and the free cities they dont have proper castles, they may be more elegant but thier not the same, tyrion reflects on this when he is there in illriyos

What they have is more fantastic than Westros castles.  If I'd seen the Titan of Braavos or the ruins of Rhoynar, I wouldn't be impressed by Connington's minor castle.  It's not one of the more impressive castles in Westros, like Storm's End.

[dtones520]

Lummel, on 04 March 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Yes but at that moment we get a comparison between alleged father and son in the mind of Jon Connington.  Just as he with loving tenderness recalls this precious moment with his beloved Rhaegar he is confronted with the brash and simplistic reality of the alleged son, and what we are shown from Jon Connington's perspective are two totally different people.

GRRM could have written that moment to underline a similarity, to re-enforce a sense of connection, to demonstrate a deep, inner relationship.  He doesn't.  He has ever loyal, ever true, Jon Connington notice how completely different and unrelated these two people are.

I think it was more placed in there to show why Jon is supporting Aegon and show how deep his love of Rhaegar truly is/was. People are reading way to much into some things to support their theory about him being fake. Real or fake, Jon Connington believes he is Rhaegars son and that part was him thinking about his friends, whom he loved, and how he reminded him of Rhaegar in that moment.

[Chacho88]

oh im sure they are nicer and more fantastical estates over thier but i dont think they have an actual westeros style castle, so to see one for the first time ud be impressed, ive seen mansions and castles myself in ireland, england, even here in toronto but when i went to see the ruins of the castles they had in south america, or the so called castles the incas built, i was amazed, even though they were no more then 1-2 stories high,

[Screaming Knight]

Lummel, on 04 March 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

Except those of us who don't believe that Aegon is rhaegar's son read that passage and think how different Aegon is from Rhaegar, in fact he seems nothing like the way that Rhaegar is described.

I think the similarity of the statement triggered jons thoughts to his moment with rhaegar. I think he thought of it as something a young rhaegar might say. This is something that someone who thinks he's real will take as a similarity and someone who thinks he's fake will take that him not repeating the comment verbatim will take as a hint he is fake

[dtones520]

Lummel, on 04 March 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Yes but at that moment we get a comparison between alleged father and son in the mind of Jon Connington.  Just as he with loving tenderness recalls this precious moment with his beloved Rhaegar he is confronted with the brash and simplistic reality of the alleged son, and what we are shown from Jon Connington's perspective are two totally different people.

GRRM could have written that moment to underline a similarity, to re-enforce a sense of connection, to demonstrate a deep, inner relationship.  He doesn't.  He has ever loyal, ever true, Jon Connington notice how completely different and unrelated these two people are.

What I'm saying is that you are assuming that Aegon, because he is Rhaegar's son, should act exactly like him. Rhaegar barely saw his son before he died, as he was off with Lyanna for a good portion of that, then went off to the Battle at the Trident. And even if he had spent more time with him, Aegon was a baby. So any traits or graces Rhaegar could have given his son, outside of DNA, are not really going to be ones Aegon would have.  

In Aegons, a 16 or 17 year old, own way he compliments Connington's castle. Which reminded Jon, again, about the comment Rhaegar made to him. That's all it was. But to think that Aegon should act like his father, who he never knew is a bit of a stretch. Look at Tyrion, someone who had been around his father his entire life and is like Tywin with his ruthless cunning and other traits, but communicates in a completely different way.

[Lummel]

But Connington is standing at the top of his tower looking out at his lands remembering Rhaegar first.  It is only after Connington has remembered Rhaegar being up on top of his tower (double entendre intended) and his words on that occasion that Aegon barges in.

Aegon's words don't trigger the memory.  Aegon comes in afterwards  and his words "I like your castle" stand in stark constrast to Rhaegar's "your father's lands are beautiful".

[7V3N]

Connington blamed himself after the Battle of the Bells. He could have won the war at the cost of innocent lives. He is constantly filled with regret because if he had killed Robert there, no war, no Battle of the Trident, Rhaegar lives and soon (probably) becomes one of the greatest kings Westeros has ever seen.

He thinks that by seating Rhaegar's son on the Iron Throne and ensuring his security, he can die knowing he at least came close to "apologizing" to Rhaegar, his Silver Prince.

[DornishKnight]

Before this thread ends:
There is no reason Aegon  can't be the real deal.  It's just that there is no reason he can't be fake.