Classics thing: Or What I think of Famous Books

[Galactus]

Que?

[Isalie]

Wuthering Heights was a horror story about self-destructive emotionally manipulative dicks ruining their own and everybody elses lives. I don't see how people take it as romance.

Frankenstein is romantic and tragic and lovely.

I could be missing something here but I think you have mistaken romance with romantic, in the sense that its a romantic (era) novel, grand emotions, Byronic hero etc.

[Buckwheat]

Oh Christ. Young Werther is like proto-Twilight but with better prose. Suicide glorification for an entire generation.

I think one of the reasons I hated it with such passion was because I was going through a pretty rough time when I read it and it just offended me so much that the novel's solution to that sort of thing was "just off yourself".

No thanks. "The Sorrows of Young Werther" should burn in a particularly nasty piece of hell.

Agree completely here, I still do not understand what I am supposed too see in a book where nothing actually happens apart from a young emo whining all the time. I mostly wonder why this Wilhelm guy did not just write back to Werther telling him to stop because he nevere reads his letters anyway :dunno: .

[Galactus]

Agree completely here, I still do not understand what I am supposed too see in a book where nothing actually happens apart from a young emo whining all the time. I mostly wonder why this Wilhelm guy did not just write back to Werther telling him to stop because he nevere reads his letters anyway :dunno: .

Well, having just read at least the high--points of the preceeding eras, I can kind of see it: Imagine that this is NOT a cliché. This isn't a young emo or teenage angst, because these terms haven't been invented yet. (in fact, the word angst is of course german, and that large comes from the german romantics of which Goethe is a precursor)

We're used to teenage/young adult "who am? what should I do? come to terms with my life and love" kind of stories, because they're everywhere, and churned out on an industrial style. But for Goethe's audience it wasn't: This was something entirely new. (and suicide wasn't something one would even speak of)

And Werther actually reads his letters, we don't get to see them, but he mentions stuff written in them, so it's clear they actually have a conversation, although we only get to see half of it.

[Buckwheat]

Well, having just read at least the high--points of the preceeding eras, I can kind of see it: Imagine that this is NOT a cliché. This isn't a young emo or teenage angst, because these terms haven't been invented yet. (in fact, the word angst is of course german, and that large comes from the german romantics of which Goethe is a precursor)

We're used to teenage/young adult "who am? what should I do? come to terms with my life and love" kind of stories, because they're everywhere, and churned out on an industrial style. But for Goethe's audience it wasn't: This was something entirely new. (and suicide wasn't something one would even speak of)

And Werther actually reads his letters, we don't get to see them, but he mentions stuff written in them, so it's clear they actually have a conversation, although we only get to see half of it.

Ok, this makes sense. I wish one of the other of my lit teachers would explain to me that way :). I was just ranting over Werther because I cannot stand him.

[Lyanna Stark]

I could be missing something here but I think you have mistaken romance with romantic, in the sense that its a romantic (era) novel, grand emotions, Byronic hero etc.

I think a lot of the problem with Heathcliffe is that he doesn't really come across as a Byronic hero, he comes across as a right twat and that you keep scratching your head wondering about the characters' motivations, to a degree. I mean, I admit, I LOVE Jane Eyre which I think captures the dark, moody and threatening atmosphere better than the more high-strung Wuthering Heights. I also agree with someone in this thread or elsewhere that Frankenstein is a far more romantic work of fiction, although it was so long I read it I can't for the life of me remember enough to say more than that.

Considering romance, Wuthering Heights has got more of it, what with young and handsome Heathcliffe and Catherine's strong feelings, compared to Jane Eyre where some grey governess finally marries a quite weird middle aged cripple.

Well, having just read at least the high--points of the preceeding eras, I can kind of see it: Imagine that this is NOT a cliché. This isn't a young emo or teenage angst, because these terms haven't been invented yet. (in fact, the word angst is of course german, and that large comes from the german romantics of which Goethe is a precursor)

This is true. I think I was mostly just offended by what seemed like a glorification of suicide. Prolly didn't help that a guy at our school offed himself around this point in time as well by way of jumping in front of the train.

[voodooqueen126]

So anybody read any classical works about long sea voyages.

That aren't Moby Dick as I cannot bother to read that work.

Northanger Abbey was good.

[Whitestripe]

Lyanna - If you add in Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights", and my buddy's mishearing of a line from "No Myth", by Micheal Penn, well... You get an image of Heathcliffe chased by vampire Cathy across teh moors, while his snowpants go "wssht wssssht wsssht" How in hell Tommybob heard "heathcliffe in snowpants", I have yet to figure out.

Great. Now I have a Kate Bush earworm. Gawd, I hate Kate Bush. Her voice makes my ears bleed, and now I can't get it out of my head.

[paddington]

So anybody read any classical works about long sea voyages.

That aren't Moby Dick as I cannot bother to read that work.

Northanger Abbey was good.

2 Years before the mast. It's not fictional but from what I remeber I really enjoyed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Years_Before_the_Mast

[Contrarius]

So anybody read any classical works about long sea voyages.

That aren't Moby Dick as I cannot bother to read that work.

Northanger Abbey was good.

If you're gonna read classic works about sea voyages, read NON-fiction -- e.g.:

South by Shackleton or Endurance by Lansing -- both about Shackleton's trip to the Antarctic, during which he and his crew were trapped in ice for more than a year and NOBODY DIED. About the most inspiring story I've ever read.

In the Heart of the Sea by Philbrick -- this shipwreck is supposed to be one of the foundations on which Moby Dick was built -- about whale hunters who end up cast adrift after their ship is rammed by a whale.

Lone Voyager by Garland -- about Howard Blackburn, who started out as a Gloucester fisherman and then became a successful businessman -- he did a lot of solo sailing, including multiple trips across the Atlantic solo, even though he HAD NO FINGERS. Another great and inspiring story.

All of these are true stories. If somebody tried to write novels with all this stuff happening, everyone would say it was too unbelievable....

[voodooqueen126]

If you're gonna read classic works about sea voyages, read NON-fiction -- e.g.:

South by Shackleton or Endurance by Lansing -- both about Shackleton's trip to the Antarctic, during which he and his crew were trapped in ice for more than a year and NOBODY DIED. About the most inspiring story I've ever read.

In the Heart of the Sea by Philbrick -- this shipwreck is supposed to be one of the foundations on which Moby Dick was built -- about whale hunters who end up cast adrift after their ship is rammed by a whale.

Lone Voyager by Garland -- about Howard Blackburn, who started out as a Gloucester fisherman and then became a successful businessman -- he did a lot of solo sailing, including multiple trips across the Atlantic solo, even though he HAD NO FINGERS. Another great and inspiring story.

All of these are true stories. If somebody tried to write novels with all this stuff happening, everyone would say it was too unbelievable....

So has anybody else read

http://www.amazon.co...id=TMZO3FK42XHI

http://www.amazon.co...id=TMZO3FK42XHI

but then being short stories. I doubt they would examine the sense of claustrophobia that one gets from being locked up with people (particularly on such an inescapable place like a boat) for months on end?

Does anybody write about that, not just at sea, but in any place?

Asides from in the Shining?

[Happy Ent]

How in hell Tommybob heard "heathcliffe in snowpants", I have yet to figure out.

Rehearing that song now convinces me that the entire lyrics consist of “Heathcliffe in Snowpants”. Truly an unforgettable image that will forever transform me.

[voodooqueen126]

So apparently Stephen King's The Shining is heavily influenced by Edgar Allan Poe's "The Masque of the Red Death" and Guy De Maupassant's "The Inn"

ladies and gentlemen of the jury I present unto you "The Inn"

http://www.online-literature.com/poe/231/

[Galactus]

So, finished Carl Jonas Love Almquist's "The Queen's Diadem" (Drottningens Juvelsmycke) and whoah... That was... Heavy. Seriously, it was one of the tougher reads I've had. Deliberately archaized langauge (I know "deliberately" because I've read Det Går An and it's nowhere as bad) dozens of french (and occasionally latin or greek, plus for bonus, a little bit of jiddisch) sentences and even multilingual pun, a bewildering array of formats (epistolary novel, regular prose, what looks like the stage directions for theatre, and at one point, sheet music, and of course we have the point where one person is telling another person about the conversation of a third party where they are reading from actual court records...) Add a rather bewildering plot, strange mannerisms, and just general weirdness and it's one tough book.

Still, it's all very impressive: tons of reoccuring motifs that are woven in and out of the narrative, lots of little references, the historical background is fairly well-researched... It's something all right. I can't exactly say if it's a good novel or not, but it's certainly not quite like anything I've ever read before.

[Roose Seal]

Reading Frankenstein for the first time when I was 20ish (I know that's pretty late) was a wonderful experience. It's funny cause we all have such preconceived ideas about the book instilled in our brains through countless movies, numerous parodies and even more homages in pop culture e.g. : Frankenstein is the name of the Creature, the Creature is slow and dumb and moans all the time, the Creature was created with dead body parts and lightning, the Creature kills his Creator, the angry mob with torches hunt him down, the story is a not much more than a pulp horror story...etc etc... And when you read the actual book, it's pretty much nothing like that.

First of all, Frankenstein is indeed, the Doctor; the Creature is actually very intelligent, well read and articulate and extremely agile; how he was created remains vague at best; the Creature is actually devastated by Frankenstein's death.. and so on.

As a result, to my great surprise, the book turned out to be exactly the opposite of what I thought it would be. It's an extremely well-written, poetic, extremely romantic (sometimes even too much for its own good) story with breathtaking descriptions of nature and a really interesting and nuanced message.

For those who like this book, I recommend checking out the illustrated version by Berni Wrightson (comic artist who created the Swamp Thing). He does a damn pretty good job at turning the highly gothic atmosphere of the book into vivid imagery.

As for Balzac, I'll take a Balzac book over a Zola book any friggin day.

[The Storm Queen]

Concerning Werther

1. I read it in my first language, German, but the prose is still terrible high-strung.

2. Interpretations: I have to admit that I also have been mostly annoyed by it because Werther is such a woe-is-me character. However there are some interesting approaches to the book focusing on its other characters. For example it is rather intriguing to try and view it from Lotte´s PoV, a young woman who has to deal with a labile man.

3. If you want to know why Goether has the reputation of being Germany´s best writer then better go for Faust which is a far better book imho.

Btw, has anybody read disgrace by Coetzee yet? How did you like it?

[Vrana]

Btw, has anybody read disgrace by Coetzee yet? How did you like it?

My favourite Coetzee book. By far. It's so imperceptibly eerie throughout, I found myself looking over my shoulder reading it. Personally I think it's Coetzee at his best, the elusive references to the 'disgrace' combined with incredibly powerful dialogue.

I had a harder time with for example Life And Times of Michael K, though Myshkin's thoughts on it have forced me to do a reread soon.

[Galactus]

If you want to know why Goether has the reputation of being Germany´s best writer then better go for Faust which is a far better book imho.

That or his poetry.

[Maia]

Okay, I'm very fond of A Tale of Two Cities.

I have seen the black-and-white film when I was a kid and loved it. So, a year or so ago I have finally read the book... and was very disappointed. The British chapters are great, I'll grant you - but the French ones are awful. They just ring so false and are clearly written by somebody who had no clue either about France _or_ about the Revolution. Dickens is best when he writes about what he knows - the small details, the authentic period stuff, the sarcasm are what make his better works the classics they are, IMHO.

If you want to know why Goethe has the reputation of being Germany´s best writer then better go for Faust which is a far better book imho.

Yes, the 1st part of Faust is truly a work of genius, IMHO. Too bad that they didn't pick it for the course. All this talk about Werther makes me curious, though - I guess a visit to the trusty Gutenberg is in order.

We're used to teenage/young adult "who am? what should I do? come to terms with my life and love" kind of stories, because they're everywhere, and churned out on an industrial style. But for Goethe's audience it wasn't: This was something entirely new.

Well, I would argue that it wasn't _completely_ new - Manon Lescaut was published about 40 years previously, after all, and it does touch on a lot of similar issues, although with more action and less angst. Pretty good read still, BTW - I was pleasantly surprised. But yes, it was certainly rare.

[Galactus]

So the three books we're reading currently are:

1. Gustave Flaubert's Madame Bovary

2. Fyodor Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment

3. Guy de Mapassaunts "The pearl of fat" (I think,no idea hat the english title is) a short story.

I've always thought C&P was too long. Yeah, feel free to hate me for it. I just never had the "WOW!" experience with C&P The concept is interesing enough, but it just goes on and on and on.

Mmme. Bovary was fairly dull, unpleasant characters and just not very interesting either stylistically or in content. Ripe for interpretations though.

The Fat Pearl was... something. There's all sorts of nuances of power and such that makes it kind of interesting to analyze though. Very unpleasant though.