50 replies to this topic

[Grail King]

OK, with apologies to my San / San friends I always maintain that Sansa and Sandor have a connection, I also maintain a happy or sustainable life together would not or could not happen they would at the least have a bitter sweet ending at the worst a tragic ending, my question is how would Arya and Sansa's relationship survive if San San did happen?

If we put this in perspective of most families, I think the SanSan situation would destroy house Stark at the least and the return of the riff between Arya and Sansa most likely with a possible kinslaying involved or Arya offing the Hound.

Arya still remembers that the Hound rode down Micah and she still had resentment to Sansa in the Hollow Hills both mentioned at the Hounds trial.


So just on the sister aspects for the future could they make it if the SanSan happens?

[Bear Grylls of Skagos]

I think Arya forgave Sandor.
Sansa is too calculating to marry a man who has no political use.

[A Free Shadow]

Arya would never ever care. She would go to Jon, he would muse her hair and they will be happy without any power struggles.

[Hornfoot Manicurist]

I agree with PP. Arya and Sandor came to a truce of sorts. She could have killed him outside Saltpans but did not. I don't think she'd do anything so dramatic as kill Sansa or Sandor, but I do think she'd berate her sister for stupidity.

[A Free Shadow]

Or... I have changed my mind.

At first Arya would look like this
Then she would challenge Sandor to a duel, have him on his back and show him who is the boss.
Then she would go to Jon and let him muse her hair and leave Sandor and Sansa to their strange lives.

[LOBROD]

i thought that by the time Arya left the Hound she had come to terms with him and his behaviour. even pitied him?

the problem would be getting Arya to believe that this romance/ connection actually EXISTED in the first place.
i mean for someone like Arya who has not been there for any of the changes in sansas perceptions it would be incomprehensible. completely incomprehensible.

[Grail King]

and this is what I want to touch on, not Arya and Sandor just Arya and Sansa if SanSan came true, I think it could make a whole new riff since he might now be part of the Stark family.

[Rapsie]

The MODs have asked that we do not discuss this topic. I think we should respect that decision.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

I believe wholeheartedly that Arya had come to forgive Sandor by (actually before) the end of their time together.  The pivotal moment to me is when he mentions returning to the Twins to see about her family, and she interrupts with the resigned statement that it is useless, she knows her mother is dead.  He accepts this with a silent and understanding nod (which, for Sandor, is the equivalent of a whole Hallmark card worth of understanding and condolence), and the two are on their way again.  Arya begins to travel with him of her own will, they even manage to have conversations about their plans.  When they stop in that town for a while so he can work to earn some funds and provisions, she does not ask the townspeople to help her escape from this man, nor does she attempt to escape herself.  They seem to have reached a sort of mutual frame of mind that they simply don't know what to do with themselves.  Sandor seems to have given up on the idea of ransoming her, and just wants to find someplace to leave her that will be reasonably safe (which I do not think is lost on Arya).  However, their choices have grown scanty.

Most telling to me is her behavior during and after the fight at the tavern.  When Sandor becomes engaged in the fight, it would have been easy for her to run for it and leave him to his fate.  Instead she wades in fiercely and saves his life.  She then helps him get away from the tavern, and helps to care for his wounds as best she can, even though again she could easily have run.  She stays with him until both of them believe that his injuries are hopeless.

I do believe he angered her again with his taunting, in his efforts to drive her to kill him, but I do not believe her anger overturns the ultimate judgment she has reached about him: that she has forgiven his past behavior and considers him, if not a friend exactly, at least no longer an enemy.  Her parting words about him not deserving the gift if mercy are no more than the truth, but while I think she honestly believes he may deserve to die in pain as retribution for everything he has done, I think there is also a part of her that simply no longer wants him dead, at least not by her own hands.  Her decision to leave seems to me to be more pragmatic than vengeful:  she doesn't want him dead, but he is obviously not going anywhere and staying there to be captured by Gregor's men is not an option - it would be pointless for her to stay and die too.

As to how she would react to a San/San romance, I think it would depend a lot on the circumstances when she found out about it.  Sansa and Arya have their own fences to mend, even with the issue of Sandor completely aside.  But assuming they are both willing to forgive and forget and have a sisterly relationship again, I think Arya's response to Sandor in the family will be one of two things:  if she has grown up some, and maybe started to have a few romantic feelings of her own towards someone, I think she would respond with a wise nod and a few well chosen words for Sandor about the consequences if he does not treat her sister right.  If she is still to young to empathize with romantic love, I think she will wrinkle up her nose and say, "that's just stupid. But she will pick Sansa some flowers for her hair anyway.

Edited by LadyoftheNorth72, 29 February 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Rapsie, on 29 February 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

The MODs have asked that we do not discuss this topic. I think we should respect that decision.

I'm sorry.  I was not aware of that.  Why/what aspect of it is problematic?

[brashcandy]

I could see Arya thinking that it was a bit of a betrayal, especially considering her thoughts that Sansa protected Joffrey when she didn't tell the King what had happened that day with Mycah. Interesting topic.

[LOBROD]

LadyoftheNorth72, on 29 February 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

I believe wholeheartedly that Arya had come to forgive Sandor by (actually before) the end of their time together.  The pivotal moment to me is when he mentions returning to the Twins to see about her family, and she interrupts with the resigned statement that it is useless, she knows her mother is dead.  He accepts this with a silent and understanding nod (which, for Sandor, is the equivalent of a whole Hallmark card worth of understanding and condolence), and the two are on their way again.  Arya begins to travel with him of her own will, they even manage to have conversations about their plans.  When they stop in that town for a while so he can work to earn some funds and provisions, she does not ask the townspeople to help her escape from this man, nor does she attempt to escape herself.  They seem to have reached a sort of mutual frame of mind that they simply don't know what to do with themselves.  Sandor seems to have given up on the idea of ransoming her, and just wants to find someplace to leave her that will be reasonably safe (which I do not think is lost on Arya).  However, their choices have grown scanty.

Most telling to me is her behavior during and after the fight at the tavern.  When Sandor becomes engaged in the fight, it would have been easy for her to run for it and leave him to his fate.  Instead she wades in fiercely and saves his life.  She then helps him get away from the tavern, and helps to care for his wounds as best she can, even though again she could easily have run.  She stays with him until both of them believe that his injuries are hopeless.

I do believe he angered her again with his taunting, in his efforts to drive her to kill him, but I do not believe her anger overturns the ultimate judgment she has reached about him: that she has forgiven his past behavior and considers him, if not a friend exactly, at least no longer an enemy.  Her parting words about him not deserving the gift if mercy are no more than the truth, but while I think she honestly believes he may deserve to die in pain as retribution for everything he has done, I think there is also a part of her that simply no longer wants him dead, at least not by her own hands.  Her decision to leave seems to me to be more pragmatic than vengeful:  she doesn't want him dead, but he is obviously not going anywhere and staying there to be captured by Gregor's men is not an option - it would be pointless for her to stay and die too.

As to how she would react to a San/San romance, I think it would depend a lot on the circumstances when she found out about it.  Sansa and Arya have their own fences to mend, even with the issue of Sandor completely aside.  But assuming they are both willing to forgive and forget and have a sisterly relationship again, I think Arya's response to Sandor in the family will be one of two things:  if she has grown up some, and maybe started to have a few romantic feelings of her own towards someone, I think she would respond with a wise nod and a few well chosen words for Sandor about the consequences if he does not treat her sister right.  If she is still to young to empathize with romantic love, I think she will wrinkle up her nose and say, "that's just stupid. But she will pick Sansa some flowers for her hair anyway.

for me the telling part was her acceptance that her mother was dead after which she seemed to apreciate the lengths the Hound went to to get her away from the massacre outside the twins where HE could have just rode off and left her but instead  took the time to try to make her understand the situation was against them. ok , he ended the persuASion by hitting her on the head with an axe handle, but the point still stands!

[Xray the Enforcer]

Rapsie, on 29 February 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

The MODs have asked that we do not discuss this topic. I think we should respect that decision.

Thank you.

[mod] In this case, IF this discussion only focuses on the two sisters, I think we can let it stay. Discussions of the Sandor-Sansa relationship itself, though, are currently off-limits. [/mod]

That said, I will be kicking this to the mod team for discussion. In the end, we may decide to end the conversation anyway.

Edited by Xray the Enforcer, 29 February 2012 - 01:16 PM.

[childofsummer]

I think it was an important part of Arya's character development that she came to recognize that she and the Hound were not so different.  She notes that she killed at Harrenhal to escape, and at Saltpans, killed the squire for grabbing her arm.  I'm not sure how much of a problem she would have with Sansa marrying him eventually.  I think she realized that, while heinous, the Hound's killing of Mycah was not as black and white an issue as she had previously thought.  Note that she started calling him Sandor, not the Hound.  I think that's a significant indicator of her shift in thinking.  I even think she sort of identified with him... until he tried to make her mad enough to kill him in the end.  So she might roll her eyes at Sansa, but I don't think she'd disown her.

[Dena]

I hope that Sansa and Arya meet again because they need to talk about their relationship, they have a lot of issues that should be sorted out, and maybe they will be able to accept their differences and get along.
Arya's reaction to Sansa marrying Sandor is difficult to predict, IMO it depends on how both sisters see each other if they are reunited and how their relationship evolves, I imagine Arya would be amazed and probably wouldn't understand Sansa's reasons, but she might think "bugger that" and let them be, she might even tease Sansa about it.

[Alexia]

I think it all goes back to the general idea that the Stark sisters don't know each other anymore.  Arya would be horrified by a relationship with Sandor and think it out of character for Sansa.  But Sansa would be just as horrified by Arya's career as a murderer in the Riverlands and her new profession as a Faceless assassin.

I don't think there would be any kinslaying or hatred -- but perhaps a sense of deep pain on the part of both sisters because they are strangers to each other now.

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

Neither girl is the same as they were when they last parted.
Arya is now a Faceless Man and in no position to judge anyone (much less Sandor) about killing and such
Sansa isn't the spoilt, snobbish brat she used to be.

By the time these two girls meet again, so much will have transpired, I doubt either would care about personal relationships (who their mate is)

Arya has gotten over the Hound and Mycah.  She would most likely fall out of her chair that her stuck up sister married someone who was not Ser Loras (type).

She might even respect her sister more for it and acknowledge that events have transpired in each of their lives and have changed their outlooks as a direct result.

I think Arya will just be glad her sister is still alive and not so much care (she may raise an eyebrow but....)

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

Arya is missing her "wolf pack"
I hope she reunites with her siblings

[LordBloodraven]

Rapsie, on 29 February 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

The MODs have asked that we do not discuss this topic. I think we should respect that decision.

Why?

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

LordBloodraven, on 29 February 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Why?

I think people get too much into the fanfiction aspect of it....is my guess???