2353 replies to this topic

[House Targaryen]

It is day 1

19 players remain: Aviendha., Cadsuane Melaidhrin, Egwene al'Vere, Elayne Trakand, Faile Bashere, Galad Damodred, Gawyn Trakand, Lan Mandragoran, Logain Ablar, Loial, Mat Cauthon, Min Farshaw, Moiraine Damodred, Nynaeve al'Meara, Perrin Aybara, Siuan Sanche, Thom Merrilin, Tuon, Verin Mathwin.

10 votes are needed for a conviction or 10 to go to night.

4 votes for Elayne Trakand (Moiraine Damodred, Aviendha., Verin Mathwin, Faile Bashere)
3 votes for Loial (Mat Cauthon, Elayne Trakand, Gawyn Trakand)
2 votes for Siuan Sanche (Tuon, Min Farshaw)
2 votes for Egwene al'Vere (Cadsuane Melaidhrin, Galad Damodred)
2 votes for Gawyn Trakand (Lan Mandragoran, Nynaeve al'Meara)
2 votes for Moiraine Damodred (Egwene al'Vere, Siuan Sanche)
1 vote for Cadsuane Melaidhrin (Logain Ablar)
1 vote for Logain Ablar (Perrin Aybara)

2 players have not voted: Thom Merrilin, Loial.

[House Targaryen]

Double post. (Well triple but etc)

Edited by The Lord Dragon., 06 March 2012 - 10:27 AM.

[Lady Gaga]

I'm back! Anyone miss me. Judging by what I read, not really. I feel unloved

I have meetings most of the day then it should clear up going into the evening. But for now, I just did a reread of Elayne giving her vote total and I'm of two minds. Yes, I understand this is wishy washy but I want discussion at this point, not a lynch.

1. I actually think her catch up post was fine in isolation. It had no opinions except for Loial but at that point, there wasn't a ton happening. The only real thing going on was Faile's questioning of me and Loial's change of opinion on voting. She also isn't knew and has to understand that throwing out crap content for the sake of content rarely ever works. So to me, it's a point in her favor.

2. A point against is that she has done nothing but defend herself and defend her vote on Loial since. I haven't read one thing where she's actually tried to find FM (though she has said 3 people are scummy) even while she was active nor have I read anything where she's added to her case on Loial. She has defended the vote and tried to dispute the fact that he's an easy target but nothing really else.

Elayne: do you still have the same opinions of Loial as you did earlier in the game? Why do you think Faile and Verin are scummy? Has anyone else caught your eye?

Next post will be in an hour and half or so.

[Geraldine McQueen]

Reinforcements have arrived. I'm the "new" Thom.
I've been following loosely and will post some reads shortly.
First Siuan

[Justin Bieber]

Siuan Sanche, on 05 March 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

Skimmed through. I've been trying to catch on as quick as I can. But I had to read about 8 pages or so. So I probably missed a whole bunch. I stick to my initial point thought, these names are incredibly hard to remember, and to write.

I see many people wanted to hop on a wagon based on an accusation based on a joke vote. Really? I know we are trying to scum hunt, but wagons based on joke votes usually don't fall under the informed decisions category.

That being said I believe I'm going to vote for Moiraind, she/he (it?) seems to want just any lynch for no apparent reason. Not really informative and slightly scummy.

I'll have to try and read again when I find the time, so I can make more informed decisions. Although with so many people I don't think I'll be able to get much. I can't keep track of all this as much as I would like. Guess I'll have to get used to all of you.

In before anyone asks why I haven't actually voted for Loial yet. My vote's been sitting on Siuan for a while now. She's posted all of twice since I placed it, with the above being the most substantial contribution, if you can call it that. "Blah blah blah, I'm coasting and throwing out another easy vote." I don't feel the slightest bit better about her, and am happy with my vote where it is pending Loial's promised morning re-read.

[Justin Bieber]

Galad Damodred, on 06 March 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

The "wishy-washy PI-ing" was me quoting Min's assessment of my post where I say that I think Tuon vs. Logain is probably two innocents bashing heads. (actually, that reminds me he never explained why he found Tuon and Logain more suspicious than me).  Obviously, it was tongue-in-cheek.

Min is hard to read.  I feel like for a player who comes off as brash, he's been somewhat low-key.  (Edit: I'm not explaining what I mean well.)

Ya know, I still don't like that. I could go into a very specific reason why, but it's in squirrel territory. So I won't. I've reread you twice this morning and came up with a null though, so I'm letting it slide for the time being.

[Black Shadow]

Well I'm going to reread, but it seems to me Elayne has tunnel vision for me.

[Deadpool.]

Loial, on 06 March 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Well I'm going to reread, but it seems to me Elayne has tunnel vision for me.

Feel free to give me a reason not to by doing something that changes my mind.

[Carly Rae Jepsen]

Sorry, Faile, I'd thought your vote was still on Nynaeve for some reason.

unvote

Egwene al, on 06 March 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I'm not sure where I've sounded self-righteous, please point it out to me. And I haven't told Elayne to have more "helpful innocent play", I've said she looked actively scummy with what I saw as a poor case and bad logic. Her more recent posts looked better though, I've got to run but will try to get back on soon and put together my thoughts there.

Do you disagree that Moiraine's play is not useful for finding scum, or do you agree but don't like me pointing it out? What specifically do you disagree with of what I've said?

To be honest, I didn't read your exchange with Elayne carefully enough, so I may have mischaracterized it. I know there's something else you said last night that I found "self-rightous," but I can't remember what (rereading is a pain with how slow the board is). But yes, I thought the speech about how not (edit to complete the sentence) explaining your votes was not proper innocent play was a bit over-the-top. For what it's worth, I initially wrote "forced," but decided it didn't come across as fake so much as though you were lecturing people on Helpful Innocent Play 101.

I think occasionally, not explaining your thoughts can be more effective at getting reads than explaining them (although I'm not fond of the "never explain yourself ever" playstyle).  I also think that in Moiraine's case, he would probably play exactly the same regardless of his alignment (so maybe me leaning innocent on him is hasty).  But anyway, it's a not uncommon playstyle that works for some people, so lecturing someone about that is somewhat easy--I doubt he'll oblige you.

And yes, in general, I don't see your point of view most of the time.  I already said I think clearing someone for voting someone solely for having posted only once is silly. Off the top of my head, another one is that I don't think Logain was "bullying" Tuon.

Re: your post on Mat, there's actually one thing I agree with: Mat never actually said that he cross-posted--in fact, his answer implies that he was going to cast a joke vote for me and then change it to Loial regardless of how I reacted (edit) even if Loial hadn't been "hypocritical" and voted me.  I suppose someone could legitimately call that a bit forced (which is why I have no problem with Faile).  I also don't like his disappearance.  Doesn't change that the case on him is about as likely to be accurate as random chance.

(Edit: I swear, half of what comes out of my keyboard sometimes is completely nonsensical.)

Edited by Galad Damodred, 06 March 2012 - 10:53 AM.

[Geraldine McQueen]

Siuan has three posts so far, which is a bad thing on itself (though not nescessarily evil, still counterproductive)

Siuan Sanche, on 05 March 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

Nynaeve al'Meara because this name is just too damn hard to remember, write and/or pronounce.

Verin Mathwin, I was really tempted to vote you. But I had already copy/pasted Nynaeve al'Meara's name and I had done it since the first page.

Even when we assume that it was a joke vote, why keep it up "since the first page"? Let's further assume that the only thing holding her back from not joking was the poem by Verin (don't think she meant his name as a possible vote reason, that would even make less sense): I still have to ask why that should be the most noteable thing when the "Mat-discussion" was with most steam. If you think it was an evil clue, point it out. If you think it's an inno clue, don't mention it. If it's nothing, why bring it up?

Siuan Sanche, on 05 March 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

Skimmed through. I've been trying to catch on as quick as I can. But I had to read about 8 pages or so. So I probably missed a whole bunch. I stick to my initial point thought, these names are incredibly hard to remember, and to write.

I see many people wanted to hop on a wagon based on an accusation based on a joke vote. Really? I know we are trying to scum hunt, but wagons based on joke votes usually don't fall under the informed decisions category.

That being said I believe I'm going to vote for Moiraind, she/he (it?) seems to want just any lynch for no apparent reason. Not really informative and slightly scummy.

I'll have to try and read again when I find the time, so I can make more informed decisions. Although with so many people I don't think I'll be able to get much. I can't keep track of all this as much as I would like. Guess I'll have to get used to all of you.

Siuan is willing to vote for Moraine, without even considering her motives for the Elayne-vote or asking her for that. It's just too easy to deal with the Elayne summary-post -> Moraine's instant vote. So accusing people (who try to create content by building cases on joke votes) for making uninformed descisions, but voting Moraine without asking her something? Also "slightly" scummy rubs me the wrong way. You have nothing to go on in Moraine's case. Either you find that playstyle scum/anti-town. Or you don't. This "slightly" leaves Siuan an out in case the tide changes, imo.

Siuan Sanche, on 05 March 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

My point exactly.

That's a joke (serious comment) about how hard the names are. And she's out after that.
So, I think she is the lowest contributor so far and a good choice to lynch early.

[Deadpool.]

Mat Cauthon, on 06 March 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I'm back! Anyone miss me. Judging by what I read, not really. I feel unloved

I have meetings most of the day then it should clear up going into the evening. But for now, I just did a reread of Elayne giving her vote total and I'm of two minds. Yes, I understand this is wishy washy but I want discussion at this point, not a lynch.

1. I actually think her catch up post was fine in isolation. It had no opinions except for Loial but at that point, there wasn't a ton happening. The only real thing going on was Faile's questioning of me and Loial's change of opinion on voting. She also isn't knew and has to understand that throwing out crap content for the sake of content rarely ever works. So to me, it's a point in her favor.

2. A point against is that she has done nothing but defend herself and defend her vote on Loial since. I haven't read one thing where she's actually tried to find FM (though she has said 3 people are scummy) even while she was active nor have I read anything where she's added to her case on Loial. She has defended the vote and tried to dispute the fact that he's an easy target but nothing really else.

Elayne: do you still have the same opinions of Loial as you did earlier in the game? Why do you think Faile and Verin are scummy? Has anyone else caught your eye?

Next post will be in an hour and half or so.

Why would anything have changed, their lack of posting only contributes to my theory that they are scared newb FM.

Faile has bad logic, but it's possible it's just bad logic town.
"

He was accusing Loial of changing his mind quickly about the voting when he was doing the same. When I questioned him about it he admited he was being a hypocrite."

^I mean look at this, I can't fathom how a normal person can complete ignore Loial's action which made the described action reasonable.

Verrin hasn't really done anything except question me.  The "scummy" was from their complete avoidance of the early game, instead opting to post a poem instead of posting content.  Verrin is more reasonable then Faile though.

[Carly Rae Jepsen]

Loial, on 06 March 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Well I'm going to reread, but it seems to me Elayne has tunnel vision for me.

...yeah. Okay, I don't feel bad about voting you earlier.

Min Farshaw, on 06 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

Ya know, I still don't like that. I could go into a very specific reason why, but it's in squirrel territory. So I won't. I've reread you twice this morning and came up with a null though, so I'm letting it slide for the time being.

Send the reason to Spoiler Heaven, because now I'm curious to know what it is.

[Deadpool.]

The first sentence refers to Loial

[Deadpool.]

If there is FM on my wagon atm, it's either Moiraine or Faile.

[Magic Mirror]

Elayne Trakand, on 06 March 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

If there is FM on my wagon atm, it's either Moiraine or Faile.

It must be Moiraine then, I'm pretty sure I'm not your partner.

[Carly Rae Jepsen]

Am I just imagining that page numbers are switching?  A post that was on page 16 shows up on page 17 when I hit refresh.

Right now, I think my ranking goes Siuan > Loial > Elayne of the wagons now (although I hate that Loial hasn't delivered his reread). I agree with Min's and Thom's case on Siuan, so I won't repeat them.

I'm debating a Siuan vote, but I want to reread a dark horse suspect first.

[Taylor Swift]

Elayne Trakand, on 06 March 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

If there is FM on my wagon atm, it's either Moiraine or Faile.

I'd say Faile, if so.
Moiraine's reaction is much more understandable, from my PoV.

[Magic Mirror]

Elayne Trakand, on 06 March 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Faile has bad logic, but it's possible it's just bad logic town.
"

He was accusing Loial of changing his mind quickly about the voting when he was doing the same. When I questioned him about it he admited he was being a hypocrite."

^I mean look at this, I can't fathom how a normal person can complete ignore Loial's action which made the described action reasonable.

I'm not going to insist on explaining my point of view on this anymore, it would be a waste of time. But, I still want to defend that my question was as valid as any other and it didn't lack logic. I think Mat would (or should have) told us if I was misinterpreting his actions, but he didn't so... yeah...

Also, "normal" is overrated.

[Shania Twain]

Faile voted for Elayne? Why did you do that, woman? I was all set to welcome you back into my arms.

If you could smell me right now, you'd be picking up disappointment mixed with suspicion and a hint of confusion.

[Geraldine McQueen]

Tolerate me, while I find another "easy target" scummy. It was what I thought when following.
Loial got my attention, because I thought he seemed less noob then he claimed to be. Also, his observation of the inquisition game is from my POV wrong (the conclusion definitly is, and would be harder to draw from that game, than from another, imo). Also he lurked through the discussion of Elayne's catch up post, which were about him a lot.

So after his OMGUS vote on Galan, this is pretty much all he says

Spoiler

Loial, on 05 March 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

The spanish inquisition if I remember correctly, I believe one of the FM said its good to lynch early and that person turned out to be FM.  I unvoted you because I thought your vote was a joke vote, or is it not?  I guess its not scummy to vote early if everyone's doing it since it seems to be the norm.

Loial, on 05 March 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

I read the entire Spanish Inquisition, I guess I misunderstood what was going on in that game.

Loial, on 05 March 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

I don't remember if there was lots of voting on the first page of the Spanish Inquisition, and I only voted for you because you voted me.

So, he has read the entire spanish inquisition. Don't think you can mistake Zar's games in names as he's constantly posting flavor stuff. On day 1 in this game, FM tried to prevent the lynch of her partner. Also, there wasn't a remarkable difference in vote numbers early on, as in other games. No matter where you read, I think it's hard to get the impression that early votes are in any way unusual. What you can learn by some games, inquisition included, is that "why don't we vote night" is considered classic newby stuff and that people get a pass for it

The following bothers me as well: It's an excuse for not posting (though he did answer questions as seen above). He was also asked to post more instead of less, but doesn't - when you are trying to figure out how to play, listen to the advices?

Loial, on 05 March 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Well I'm back, after making myself look like a fool I've decided to sit back and try to learn a bit more.

This again, seems not really as new-ish as he claims to be?:

Loial, on 06 March 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Well I'm going to reread, but it seems to me Elayne has tunnel vision for me.