2353 replies to this topic

[Taylor Swift]

Loial, on 06 March 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Why is my post tremendously awful?

Because you are massively parroting.
Which is one of most definitely scumtells, along with being wishy-washy.

Edited by Verin Mathwin, 06 March 2012 - 12:05 PM.

[Geraldine McQueen]

I'm gonna talk about Garwyn instead, from replacement to replacement.

I loved the new Garwyn, as he's reasonable and has, with a few exception, the same opinions I had while following. BUT:
As someone mentioned, the same way I could come up with lots of thoughts that look like genuine scumhunting, he could: because regardless of alignment now, we were genuinly scumhunting. So we will have to take a closer look at Garwyn2's post to see where it might look "twisted?" to appeal to his new partners?

So, Garwyn1, scummy a lot:
1. Hopped on the Mat-train
2. attacking Elayne's catch up post for defending Mat (the selection of that was what stood ou most in that post imo), but saying Elayne agressiveness is good, despite her calling him useless => From Inno-Garwyn POV a genuine town tell (I would like people calling me useless, if I were, and Garwyn was up to that point.)
3. But then: Vote on Elayne for her "follow up reasonings", just when people threw their votes on her (and he was pressured on the reasons why she looked town to him in the first play, aka agressiveness).

So, I'm parroting here, but even if we don't lynch Garwyn because of Garwyn2 we need to take a very close look at the later's posts.

[Kesha]

Cadsuane Melaidhrin, on 06 March 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Really? You're willing to risk outing a PR on the lookout for a symp? What's the trade-off? Sorry, but I don't see how this helps town.

It doesn't.  The whole searching for codes seems weird, but would an FM openly admit they were searching for clues for a symp?

[Geraldine McQueen]

Tuon, on 06 March 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

You give pretty extensive thoughts on several people in this post, but you vote Loail without a reason.  All you say is that he is your strongest scum read.  Why?

Also, what would have been your read on your predecessor in you had replaced in as Thom as you thought?

Very good one! Should've added that in my case! Tuon, you look town to me, btw. Gonna make that big post of little stuff before Verin, because I'm fence on Verin so it will be harder....

[Taylor Swift]

Galad Damodred, on 06 March 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

I'd still much, much, much rather lynch him than Elayne (who looks more innocent with every post--although granted, she set the bar pretty low).

Yeah, agreed. She looks better. especially after "I will scream" part. It might be manipulative, but it looks sincere to me. I am thinking about changing my vote, but it's too early now.
I'll be online for hour or  two more, so no reason to hurry.

[Geraldine McQueen]

Loial, on 06 March 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

How do I look bad for going after her?  I explained myself to Galad a lot earlier, she just seems to be grasping at straws.

If you are answering to all the reactions to your "catch-up post" after rereading, why not mine?
EG:
What did you do in the 40 mins, that made you sure about Elyane? Which posts/thoughts?
What is the reasoning behind your town reads? Posts/thoughts?
Were you in fact doing nothing in that time and just came up with stuff afterwards?
Why did you ignore my reaction, that had a little more content (sorry folks, I think I had) while answering to those, that don't force you to explain yourself?

[Magic Mirror]

Tuon, on 06 March 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

What strikes you as manipulative in Elayne's read?

It's the way she wrote. She could have said she didn't agree with my reasoning and why. Instead, she says "Faile Bashere -Tried pushing an awful case on Mat early."

She's sharing her opinion but presenting it as a fact. Whoever reads that will get the idea that I really was trying to push an awful case, thus will think I'm scummy. Sometimes you get a scum read on someone not because you think their posts are scummy, but because someone else has said that player looked scummy.

It really seems like she was doing it on purpose. She says this about Mat, right under her topic on me "Mat Cauthon -Is accused of being unreasonable for doing a reasonable action." That's a pretty pointless "fact" that is only there to support the idea that I look scummy. She doesn't just say he was reasonable because of this or that, she says he was being wrongly accused of being unreasonable when he was actually very reasonable. That sounds pretty manipulative to me. I also don't remember calling him unreasonable.

[House Targaryen]

It is day 1

19 players remain: Aviendha., Cadsuane Melaidhrin, Egwene al'Vere, Elayne Trakand, Faile Bashere, Galad Damodred, Gawyn Trakand, Lan Mandragoran, Logain Ablar, Loial, Mat Cauthon, Min Farshaw, Moiraine Damodred, Nynaeve al'Meara, Perrin Aybara, Siuan Sanche, Thom Merrilin, Tuon, Verin Mathwin.

10 votes are needed for a conviction or 10 to go to night.

5 votes for Elayne Trakand (Moiraine Damodred, Aviendha., Verin Mathwin, Faile Bashere, Loial)
3 votes for Loial (Mat Cauthon, Elayne Trakand, Gawyn Trakand)
3 votes for Siuan Sanche (Tuon, Min Farshaw, Thom Merrilin)
2 votes for Gawyn Trakand (Lan Mandragoran, Nynaeve al'Meara)
2 votes for Moiraine Damodred (Egwene al'Vere, Siuan Sanche)
1 vote for Egwene al'Vere (Cadsuane Melaidhrin)
1 vote for Cadsuane Melaidhrin (Logain Ablar)
1 vote for Logain Ablar (Perrin Aybara)

1 player has not voted: Galad Damodred.

[Shania Twain]

Nynaeve al, on 06 March 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

I fail to see how going against strong players and defending the "weaker" ones is a sign of guilt. Quite the opposite, it makes me feel better about Logain. Perrin, why do you think it is a sign of evil?

But he's not really going after stronger players - he's sniping from the sidelines. He questions why Lan is questioning players and belittles Tuon for following her own line of questioning. Defending the weak is not necessarily scummy, but it can also be a way to look good to others. It's kind of a wash, but ... eh, my gut doesn't like him. If he were more actively pushing to find scum I might not feel this way about him. His vote for Caddy was so early on. It may look justified now, but at the time it was basically saying that Caddy was having too much fun in the RP stage, so please stop it. As far as I recall, he never re-evaluated that vote or even looked seriously at anyone else.

Cadsuane Melaidhrin, on 06 March 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

Do you still find Faile suspicious or did you give up that tunnel?

I was feeling a lot better about Faile after questioning her, but had some reservations about her vote change before retreating. I decided to leave it because at that point, she was damned if she does, damned if she doesn't with regards to a vote. I wanted to let it set and see what she would come back with. I actually didn't mind her explanation of the Nyneave vote, but wasn't sure why she just didn't say that at the time rather than 'weak gut'.

Gawyn Trakand, on 06 March 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

#6. I haven't got a read on Thom for obvious reasons [...]

For a catch up post, this one was pretty good. The only thing that snagged my attention is that he felt he needed to mention Thom. It reminded me that this was a well disguised, opinion on everyone type post.

Cadsuane Melaidhrin, on 06 March 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

As for Logain, he was basically commenting about my early RP, not that there was much to do at the time. I'm tempted to think he's paranoid if only for his Lan case.

I think people are quick to label anything a case. I don't consider Loial's question and point against Lan to be a case since he didn't push it in any way. Likewise, I am amused to see my questions to Faile described as a case because that's not what it felt like at the time as I wasn't trying to persuade anyone to believe one thing or another about her.

Nynaeve al, on 06 March 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

What I don't like OTOH is that he didn't let it go until Faile had removed her vote from Mat. Why? Besides, he never voted for her, while he was quite quick to jump on Logain when he renewed his suspicions. Again why? Why push the case if you did not really find her suspicious or why not vote if you found her really suspicious (you had only a weak vote on Moiraine at that time)?

As I said above - I didn't see it as a case. It was me trying to understand where she was coming from. I dropped my pursuit because she left the thread. I pushed a little her way, she pushed back so I kept at it. I liked my vote on Moiraine at that time and a vote is not the only way to pressure someone. Moiraine came back and after her Elayne vote I flet better about her, so I moved my vote to Logain.

Faile Bashere, on 06 March 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Go back to the hawk if the falcon disappoints you. Yes, I know about her!

Wife, you wrong me.

[House Ashford]

Tuon, on 06 March 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

It doesn't.  The whole searching for codes seems weird, but would an FM openly admit they were searching for clues for a symp?

why not? FM have been known to fake hunts and make BS cases. Considering symps flip innocent its a decent excuse for a later mislynch.

[Carly Rae Jepsen]

Cadsuane, by the way, you're the dark horse suspect I was referring to, earlier.

I'm debating voting you and swinging a lynch in your direction.  How do you feel about this?

(In other news, I have some new innocent reads, but I don't see the point of outing them.)

[Shania Twain]

Loial, on 06 March 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

How do I look bad for going after her?  I explained myself to Galad a lot earlier, she just seems to be grasping at straws.

Did you explain, because I missed it. To me, it looks like you are going after Elayne because she is voting for you. It looks like you made up your mind before even re-reading.

Thom Merrilin, on 06 March 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

As someone mentioned, the same way I could come up with lots of thoughts that look like genuine scumhunting, he could: because regardless of alignment now, we were genuinly scumhunting.

I love this point and don't remember seeing it brought up - who originally did so?

[Shania Twain]

Galad Damodred, on 06 March 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Cadsuane, by the way, you're the dark horse suspect I was referring to, earlier.

I prefer this to your other suspects, who I find to be easy targets right now. (Siuan and Loial, if I remember correctly)

[Black Shadow]

Well I am a new player Thom, and the reason I don't post more is because I don't want to be accusing people who aren't FM.  At this point I'll admit I'm confused.

[Shania Twain]

Faile Bashere, on 06 March 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

She says this about Mat, right under her topic on me "Mat Cauthon -Is accused of being unreasonable for doing a reasonable action." That's a pretty pointless "fact" that is only there to support the idea that I look scummy.

I like this point, actually. Her other reads were on people who looked bad, but then threw this one in.

[Emeli Sande]

*Cat Crosses the Courtyard*

Gawyn Trakand, on 06 March 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

Hello everyone. I have been following this fairly closely and am ecstatic to have a chance to replace in though I was expecting to replace Thom.

Modkills suck.  But replacements also suck.  Especially when the new player is completely different from the old one.

Gawyn 1.0 was about as suspicious as it gets on day 1.  I'm very hesitant to back off, just because Gawyn 2.0 looks so much more reasonable.

Quote

#3. I have very strong innocent reads on Galad and Lan almost to the point where I'd consider them both CI for a multitude of reasons

Great.  If you are innocent, thanks for the target on my back.

HEALER PROTECT ME TONIGHT

I don't have a role.  But I'm way too awesome to die.

[Shania Twain]

I was totally waiting for the *cat crosses the courtyard* to be used in a post such as this.

Perfect

[Carly Rae Jepsen]

People this thread needs:

-Mat
-Logain
-Moiraine: even if her succinctness isn't a scumtell, she's given us very little to work with because she's never around to weigh in on anything.
-Lan: We still never got a chance to sing Kumbaya together. This way, we can prove that we can disagree without being disagreeable!   Don't you want to be my friend?   Come on, I totally can't be evil, because I'm so reasonable and agreeable.

Edit: oops, bad timing.

Edited by Galad Damodred, 06 March 2012 - 12:24 PM.

[Lady Gaga]

Loial, on 06 March 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Well I am a new player Thom, and the reason I don't post more is because I don't want to be accusing people who aren't FM.  At this point I'll admit I'm confused.

If it makes you feel better, I think you're innocent.

[Lady Gaga]

Galad Damodred, on 06 March 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

People this thread needs:

-Mat

Agreed completely. I'm in and out of meetings so will be just replying to random posts at the moment. If you want specific information, ask.