399 replies to this topic

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

TrueMetis, on 06 March 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Nothing sexist about that unless calling someone a dick is also sexist.

So you see nothing really wrong with belittling a woman by referring to her as a" twat" or "cunt"?

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Typical Woman, on 06 March 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

Since our residential GOP cheerleaders are slow in their response, let me help.

There wasn't a question or request for an explanation to which to respond.  If you want to take it as a question, I'd say that Santorum's slide wihtin the GOP electorate is due to his emphasis on the type of policies you deplore.

[Jon Sprunk]

Lord O, on 06 March 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

But for the sake of argument, who here lauds this Taibbi guy of whom I've barely even heard?

Honestly have never heard of him.


To FLoW's point, Limbaugh does not equal Maher or even some liberal journalist (just typing that phrase is painful). Limbaugh is the de facto leader of the GOP. He has more influence over the modern right than any other single figure. To get that much influence on the left side, you'd have to combine Obama, Bill Clinton, and George Clooney, and I'd still give the edge of Limbaugh.

Edit: But I'm not excusing sexism from the left either. Just trying to explain why Rush is getting the level of ire that he is. Oh, and Limbaugh trying to portray himself as the poor victim now..? He's a lowlife.

Edited by Jon Sprunk, 06 March 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[TrueMetis]

Former Lord of Winterfell, on 06 March 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

So you see nothing really wrong with belittling a woman by referring to her as a" twat" or "cunt"?

You see nothing really wrong with belittling a man by referring to him as a dick?

[kalbear]

Maher sucks. That's horrible. If you have a similar set of advertisers for him, I'd be happy to tell them off too.

I do think that singling out people who are not particularly news is not the same league as singling out presidential candidates as far as vitriol goes. I also think that Limbaugh's comments were a bit more than just misogyny. But that doesn't excuse or make good Maher's comments, and those are absolutely misogynistic.

[kalbear]

Quote

You see nothing really wrong with belittling a man by referring to him as a dick?

let's try a thought experiment, TrueMetis. I know  this'll be hard for you, but just go along with it.

Picture in your mind calling a man a dick. Okay? got that? Good.
Now, picture in your mind calling a woman a dick. Was that much harder? Probably not.

Okay, next one. Picture in your mind calling a woman a twat. Not so hard for you, is it?
Now, here's the kicker - picture in your mind calling a man a twat. Huh. That's a bit tougher, isn't it?

[TrueMetis]

ĶӓḷƁҿӑȑ, on 06 March 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

let's try a thought experiment, TrueMetis. I know  this'll be hard for you, but just go along with it.

Picture in your mind calling a man a dick. Okay? got that? Good.
Now, picture in your mind calling a woman a dick. Was that much harder? Probably not.

Okay, next one. Picture in your mind calling a woman a twat. Not so hard for you, is it?
Now, here's the kicker - picture in your mind calling a man a twat. Huh. That's a bit tougher, isn't it?

Nope, I have no problem doing that.

Edited by TrueMetis, 06 March 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[awesome possum]

TrackerNeil, on 06 March 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

First of all, Americans are pretty divided on the ACA, although a majority do not want to see it repealed entirely. It's also interesting to note that in many polls, even those who report opposition to the law change their minds when they understand what repealing it would mean. So it's not clear to me that Americans are going to flock to the polls to vote Republican on that basis.

It's not clear to FLoW either, but when you're grasping at straws you don't let that son-of-a-bitch go no matter what.

Former Lord of Winterfell, on 06 March 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Here's a fun little article compiling some of the language from the left regarding women that, for some odd reason, didn't seem to garner nearly as much outrage as Limbaugh.

Your language here is so dishonest it's amusing.  So what Bill Maher, who is not a member of the Democratic party, and an obscure columnist who I think only Triskele has said he reads regularly; what these two guys say is "language from the left regarding women."

What a fucking joke.  As someone pointed out above, Rush Limbaugh is the GOP.  John fucking Boehner - you know, the most powerful Republican in the country - had to get down on his knees and beg Rush's apology for calling Limbaugh out the last time he made national news for saying something purposely incendiary and assholish.

Limbaugh has a national audience of people who take their marching orders from them.  If you're unhappy with the amount of outrage aimed at Maher and Taibbi, it's because they're fucking irrelevant.

But hey, this is the game you're best at.  Trying to turn the tables so that you don't look like such a terrible person for blindly supporting these fucks for so long.  Doesn't work.

All this does, bringing up Maher and Taibbi, is make you look like you're defending Rush.  Which you are by trying to pass it off as a joke and bringing up the tried and true, "but you guys do it too!"

Is this US Politics:  Playground edition?

[Lord O' Bones]

ĶӓḷƁҿӑȑ, on 06 March 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Picture in your mind calling a man a dick. Okay? got that? Good.
Now, picture in your mind calling a woman a dick. Was that much harder? Probably not.

Okay, next one. Picture in your mind calling a woman a twat. Not so hard for you, is it?
Now, here's the kicker - picture in your mind calling a man a twat. Huh. That's a bit tougher, isn't it?

I'm not silent-stalker, but... No. No. And no. But then again, I live with two British Communists.

Revelation! June is not only a communist but also a misogynist! Despite all of her vagina bearing and actual leftist ways!

The veil has been lifted...

[Sci-2]

Former Lord of Winterfell, on 06 March 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

No they don't insinuate that at all.  They were a tasteless, sexist joke about someone else paying for her birth control.  Nobody actually believes he was saying that she really was a prostiture.



If you see a difference in levels of misogyny between "hairy balls in mouth", "cunt", and "twat", on the one hand, and "prostitute" on the other, I think you're being guided by politics rather than the language being used.

Limbaugh said she had so much sex she wouldn't be able to walk, and that she should put videos of herself on the 'net. That's beyond name calling, which, as others have stated, is also bad.

[kalbear]

Yeah, if you're a Brit using cunt and twat to refer to anyone is a lot easier, I'll admit.

In the US using either is a pretty loaded term, sort of the nuclear option of swearing. Especially when referring to women. Saying 'dick' isn't even obscene enough to warrant a pg-13 rating any more in the US. I think cunt would get you an auto-R.

[Ormond]

The point about Limbaugh's attacks on Sandra Fluke is not just that he used a couple of insulting terms to describe her once.

It's that he continued to do this for THREE DAYS on his show even after getting initial complaints, and that in addition to using the particular nouns "slut" and "prostitute" that he said things like

Fluke Is "having so much sex, it's amazing she can still walk."
and
If we are going to pay for your contraceptives, and thus pay for you to have sex, we want something for it, and I'll tell you what it is. We want you to post the videos online so we can all watch."

http://www.huffingto..._b_1322181.html

I mean, good grief, IMHO those above statements are conservatively about ten times worse than just using the terms "slut" and "prostitute." And using those two words seems to me to be all Limbaugh has so far apologized for.

I personally don't watch either Taibbi or Maher. I don't approve of their using those words to describe women. (And I don't approve of political commentators calling men they don't agree with "dicks" either.) But Limbaugh's abuse of Sandra Fluke over several hours went a lot further than the counterexamples that have been posted, and that neither Limbaugh nor a lot of his listeners get that difference in degree is a main part of the problem here.

[Lord O' Bones]

awesome possum, on 06 March 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Is this US Politics:  Playground edition?

I did mention the bike rack after school. My bad.

Also, it's lonely here at the bike rack. No one ever shows up.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Jon Sprunk, on 06 March 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Honestly have never heard of him.

Fair enough.  But I assume, for example, that the you've probably heard of Debbie Wasserman Schultz, currently head of the DNC, and one of the folks who has expressed outrage at Limbaugh's comments.  But that sensitivity apparently didn't prevent her from popping up recently on Bill Maher's show.   You know, the guy whose has referred to conservative women as twats and cunts.

Quote

To FLoW's point, Limbaugh does not equal Maher or even some liberal journalist (just typing that phrase is painful). Limbaugh is the de facto leader of the GOP.

No he's not.  And second, what difference does that make anyway?  As long as you don't have as big an audience as Limbaugh, you shouldn't be held accountable for offensive remarks?  Again, the Chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee had zero problem appearing on Maher's show, and I don't think she makes a lot of apolitical appearances.

It's a complete double standard.

[kalbear]

It's not a double standard, not particularly. I suspect that the head of the DNC would jump at the chance to be on Limbaugh's show. I also suspect that a person can condemn someone for making misogynistic attacks and still actually work with them; the two are not mutually exclusive.

This is just one of a long line of chauvinistic attacks Limbaugh's made, FLOW. While you may be right that more attention should be put on democratic figures that make sexist remarks, that does not exclude Limbaugh's sexist remarks or the general attacking tone he made. Fluke wasn't a political candidate. She wasn't a public figure to a large extent. She made one statement and then was attacked by the most popular figure in radio today, as well as one of the biggest spokespeople of the Republican party. If you do not see a difference in power between that and Maher calling out Palin, I think you should check again.

I think that's the real difference foor a lot of people and the real outrage - that they could easily be someone like Fluke. They can't sympathize with Palin being sneered at nearly as much as they can sympathize with someone like Fluke being sneered at. A college student wanting contraception is a lot easier to relate to than an ex-beauty queen turned governor turned presidential candidate.

In any case, the real false dichotomy is that for the most part I don't think Maher's remarks were publicized all that much (this is the first I've heard of them). I've heard plenty about Limbaugh in all sorts of places. That may be wrong, or an example of liberal media bias for you, but it's hard to get outraged over something you don't know exists.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Ormond, on 06 March 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

The point about Limbaugh's attacks on Sandra Fluke is not just that he used a couple of insulting terms to describe her once.

It's that he continued to do this for THREE DAYS on his show even after getting initial complaints, and that in addition to using the particular nouns "slut" and "prostitute" that he said things like

Fluke Is "having so much sex, it's amazing she can still walk."
and
If we are going to pay for your contraceptives, and thus pay for you to have sex, we want something for it, and I'll tell you what it is. We want you to post the videos online so we can all watch."

http://www.huffingto..._b_1322181.html

I mean, good grief, IMHO those above statements are conservatively about ten times worse than just using the terms "slut" and "prostitute." And using those two words seems to me to be all Limbaugh has so far apologized for.

I personally don't watch either Taibbi or Maher. I don't approve of their using those words to describe women. (And I don't approve of political commentators calling men they don't agree with "dicks" either.) But Limbaugh's abuse of Sandra Fluke over several hours went a lot further than the counterexamples that have been posted, and that neither Limbaugh nor a lot of his listeners get that difference in degree is a main part of the problem here.

That's a fair point, Ormond. I personally don't have a problem with everything Limbaugh said about her.  She very deliberately chose to put herself out there on this issue, and I think there's a certain amount of license in going after her, though LImbaugh clearly went overboard with some of those comments.  Limbaugh dug himself a hole and kept digging, and he got a lot more media coverage both because of his stature and because of his repetition.  I don't fault the majority of people who were offended at his comments and didn't call out others, because most of them likely are unaware of comments made by those other folks anyway.

However, there is also a subgroup of very tuned in people who are perfectly aware of the stuff that has been said on the left against some conservative women. and it doesn't seem bother them in the slightest.  The massive outcry from those on the left -- including those like Wasserman Schultz --  started as soon as Limbaugh did it, before the repetition, and that just doesn't happen when someone on the left attacks conservative women.   As I'm sure you know, Maher's got a pretty long record of saying offensive things, not just the slut and cunt references, but saying just last October that Palin would fuck Rick Perry if he was black.  Ha-ha.  And the head of the DNC doesn't appeared bothered by it in the slightest, and still goes on his show without comment.  That's messed up.

Here's another one:

A couple of years ago, “comedian” Louis CK “joked” on the Opie and Anthony radio show about Palin coming to the Republican convention “holding a baby that just came out of her f-ing, disgusting [C-word], her f-ing retard-making [C-word]. I hate her more than anybody,” he said.
On Twitter, this “comedian” attacked Palin in 2011 as a “f—ing jackoff [C-word]-face jazzy wondergirl” who “has a family of Chinese poor people living in her [C-word] hole.”


Guess which event this same fellow is headlining in June? -- The Radio and Television Correspondents Dinner.
“We’re very excited about having Louis C.K. at the dinner,” said Jay McMichael of CNN, who chairs the Radio and Television Correspondents Association’s executive committee. “This is an evening you’ll want to experience. We’re shaking things up, showcasing the unexpected, and delivering lots of laughs.”
The Left honors their own pundits as “brilliant” for verbally assaulting women, then circulates petitions calling for advertisers to drop the Limbaugh show because his “anti-woman tirades are appalling.”

Read more: http://newsbusters.o...d#ixzz1oMUdXypt

Look, I get why the outcry about Limbaugh is so much larger.  But there is some serious hypocrisy going on as well.

[MinDonner]

I like the fact that conservatives are only champions of anti-misogyny on occasions when it allows them to score points against the left. Especially when it comes in the context of trying to defend Rush Limbaugh. Please, carry on.


(in unrelated news, both "twat" and "cunt" are used almost exclusively to insult those of the male persuasion in British English.)

[awesome possum]

Lord O, on 06 March 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

I did mention the bike rack after school. My bad.

Also, it's lonely here at the bike rack. No one ever shows up.

Bike rack, damn.  I thought the fight was supposed to be at the old varsity dugout.

Former Lord of Winterfell, on 06 March 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

But there is some serious hypocrisy going on as well.

Please point to me the number of registered Democrats who get their political opinions wholesale from Bill Maher or Louis fucking CK (really, you're trying to so hard you're bringing up Louis CK, a guy who readily admits he will say the most fucked up stupid thing on his mind in order to get a gasp out of a crowd?).

Otherwise, this is you trying desperately to point at other people and say, "well they do it too!  Why can't we get away with being insultingly misogynistic like those paid comedians!  I mean, our guy who said this idiotic thing is only known as the 'mouth of the GOP' whereas the other two are guys who are paid to be funny or insulting or insultingly funny.  It's hypocrisy!  Hypocrisy that when Rush says something stupid, suddenly we can't downgrade how important he is to our party!"

hypocrisy

Edited by awesome possum, 06 March 2012 - 01:29 PM.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

MinDonner, on 06 March 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

(in unrelated news, both "twat" and "cunt" are used almost exclusively to insult those of the male persuasion in British English.)

The latter is sort of the most taboo word we have over in the States.

[awesome possum]

Former Lord of Winterfell, on 06 March 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

The latter is sort of the most taboo word we have over in the States.

Only to twats.