399 replies to this topic

[lockesnow]

Tormund Midgetsbane, on 08 March 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

Murder and violent crime across the board continues to decline.  

excepting, of course, those municipalities that have slashed police forces rather than expand the tax base to pay for the police force, crime is on the rise in such areas.

Republicans, the party of more guns and more crime!

Edited by lockesnow, 08 March 2012 - 06:11 PM.

[Triskele]

Tormund Midgetsbane, on 08 March 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

Except we don't keep fucking shooting each other.  Murder and violent crime across the board continues to decline.  Concealed Carry permit holders are in fact far less likely to commit violent crime than those who do not, and are less likely than the police to shoot the wrong person by mistake.



The problems in this country have a lot of causes, gun rights are not among them.  This is an opinion based on gross ignorance and personal bias.

This is an opinion based on gross ignorance.

As someone that leans left, this is probably one of the issues that I've evolved the most on.  I am not out to take anyone's guns (with assault rifles possibly being the exception).

But you can be for gun rights and believe that the NRA are batshit insane, tinfoil-hat, Aspect-Paranoids at the same time...which I do.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Kouran, on 08 March 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Second, as a life time member of the NRA...

Me too, since 1981.  It was actually what I asked for (and got) for my birthday that year.

[ljkeane]

Tormund Midgetsbane, on 08 March 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

Except we don't keep fucking shooting each other.  Murder and violent crime across the board continues to decline.

Of course since they're declining from a ridiculously high level there's plenty of room for them to decline while remaining very bad for a developed country.

[TrackerNeil]

Kouran, on 08 March 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

First, as a Canadian you can have any attitude you want towards the NRA, just dont bother telling me wtf you think. Second, as a life time member of the NRA any crazy leftest that wants my guns can have them one bullet at a time. Third, gun rights are settled motherfucking law, the liberals LOST get the fuck over it. Fourth, states like MA, MD, and NJ are going to lose on their restrictive their gun control laws when they finally get appealed to the SCotUS. Fifth, 49 of the 50 states have concealed carry laws, IL being the exception, but that will change soon enough. Sixth, crimes commited by lawful gun owners is a small fraction of gun related crime, big suprise most gun crime is commited by people who have the weapons illegally.

I can go on but frankly its not worth the effort, the core of it is that gun ownership is a constitutionally protected right and by god anyone who doesnt get it can just STFU.

Nope...this isn't bug-fuckering mad at all.

[kalbear]

Wow,  Kouran. You and Raidne are made for each other.

[Sci-2]

The Sinister Kid, on 08 March 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

As someone that leans left, this is probably one of the issues that I've evolved the most on.  I am not out to take anyone's guns (with assault rifles possibly being the exception).

But you can be for gun rights and believe that the NRA are batshit insane, tinfoil-hat, Aspect-Paranoids at the same time...which I do.

Yeah, I definitely have had to shift toward a more pro-gun stance while still thinking there needs to be control and regulation.

I don't ever plan on owning a gun myself but I can see for some people who are responsible it could be a security thing or even just a hobby.

[Triskele]

http://www.washingto...CvxR_story.html

I'm posting this piece by John Kerry in both this thread and the Iran/Israel one.

I've liked Gore less as time has gone on and Kerry more.  This fits into that trend pretty well.

[TerraPrime]

Kouran, on 08 March 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

First, as a Canadian you can have any attitude you want towards the NRA, just dont bother telling me wtf you think.

As an American, why are you bothering to read what a Canadian has to say about the NRA, any way? Seems to me that he's not holding a gun to your head to force you to read it.

Quote

Second, as a life time member of the NRA any crazy leftest that wants my guns can have them one bullet at a time.

That's just fucking stupid. I want your guns, not your bullets. You can keep all the bullets and eat them as breakfast cereal, for all I care.

Oh wait, I get it now, you're actually making internet threats of murdering people who want to implement gun laws that are more restrictive than you'd like. I see. Yes, that does *nothing* to augment the image of rabid gun owners, at all.

Quote

Third, gun rights are settled motherfucking law, the liberals LOST get the fuck over it.

Yeah, and anti-miscegenation laws were settled laws, too. I guess us liberals should have gotten over THAT as well and stopped fighting to allow inter-racial couples to marry legally, eh?

Quote

I can go on but frankly its not worth the effort, the core of it is that gun ownership is a constitutionally protected right and by god anyone who doesnt get it can just STFU.

My gods! I have forgotten that we actually don't have established legal precedents and formal channels to effect changes in our laws! Thanks for reminding me that laws are written in stones, and must never be examined, challenged, or criticized. It's time we reverted back the counting black people as 3/5 of a person, I say!

[Jon Sprunk]

Former Lord of Winterfell, on 08 March 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

Uh, you do know that 9/11 happened before we invaded Iraq or Afghanistan, right? Likewise the attacks on the embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, etc.. For some odd reason, that seems to get overlooked by a lot of people who wish to pretend that such hostility was due to George Bush.. If anyone around here doesn't understand the problem, it is those folks.

No one is overlooking anything (well, except perhaps for you). Nothing--not the attack on the USS Cole or in Tanzania or Kenya, or even 9/11 -- justified the full-scale invasion of one country, much less two. We could have dismantled AQ and taken out Bin Laden within a couple months with surgical operations. Regime-change and nation-building in Afghanistan were so FAR from the mission at hand it isn't even funny. Actually, it's very sad. And I'm not even commenting on Iraq yet, which was several bridges too far.

IMO, any party that tries to defend W and the neo-cons is proving it cannot be trusted with important decisions.

[kalbear]

Actually I'm totally fine with gun ownership.

Bullets should be a heavily restricted if not outright banned object, though.

[Sci-2]

Dem senators send letter to Boehner -> Drop Birth Control Issue Now.

Quote

Today, at a time when 99% of sexually active women in the U.S. have used birth control, its role in the lives of women and their families is hard to understate. Access to birth control is directly linked to declines in maternal and infant mortality, can reduce the risk of ovarian cancer, and is linked to overall good health outcomes. Nationwide, 1.5 million women use contraceptives only as treatment for serious medical conditions. And most importantly, access to birth control helps reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and abortions, a goal we all share.

[DanteGabriel]

Kouran, on 08 March 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

First, as a Canadian you can have any attitude you want towards the NRA, just dont bother telling me wtf you think. Second, as a life time member of the NRA any crazy leftest that wants my guns can have them one bullet at a time. Third, gun rights are settled motherfucking law, the liberals LOST get the fuck over it. Fourth, states like MA, MD, and NJ are going to lose on their restrictive their gun control laws when they finally get appealed to the SCotUS. Fifth, 49 of the 50 states have concealed carry laws, IL being the exception, but that will change soon enough. Sixth, crimes commited by lawful gun owners is a small fraction of gun related crime, big suprise most gun crime is commited by people who have the weapons illegally.

I can go on but frankly its not worth the effort, the core of it is that gun ownership is a constitutionally protected right and by god anyone who doesnt get it can just STFU.

It is too late.  Your Courageous Gun Ownership has marked you as a high-value target standing in the way of the New World Order.  The black helicopters are on their way.  Resistance is futile.

Yours Truly,

The Leftest

Edited by DanteGabriel, 08 March 2012 - 07:37 PM.

[TerraPrime]

DanteGabriel, on 08 March 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

It is too late.  Your Courageous Gun Ownership has marked you as a high-value target standing in the way of the New World Order.  The black helicopters are on their way.  Resistance is futile.

Yours Truly,

The Leftest

zOMG!! Kouran is totally going to shoot you in your face with his guns and his bullets, which he'll give it to you one at a time! Are you scared for your life when gun owners threaten to use their firearms to murder people of different political opinions? You better buy a gun to protect yourself!


Seriously, the best way to enact gun control is to pass a law mandating that everyone must own guns, and then threaten to jail and beat down those who violate this mandate. Sit back, then watch the right-wing gun owners topple over from a massive cognitive dissonance.

[TrackerNeil]

sciborg2, on 08 March 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

Dem senators send letter to Boehner -> Drop Birth Control Issue Now.

Who says the Democrats can't play the game as well as Republicans? Tee-hee! I'd do the same damn thing: ride that train until the wheels fall off.

[Arthmail]

Tormund Midgetsbane, on 08 March 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

Except we don't keep fucking shooting each other.  Murder and violent crime across the board continues to decline.  Concealed Carry permit holders are in fact far less likely to commit violent crime than those who do not, and are less likely than the police to shoot the wrong person by mistake.
The problems in this country have a lot of causes, gun rights are not among them.  This is an opinion based on gross ignorance and personal bias.
This is an opinion based on gross ignorance.

Between 2004-2006, there were less gun related deaths in Nicaragua. In 2010, the last data set that i can find on a quick search, there were 8,775 firearm murders, out of 12,996 murders total in the US. The Brits have about 600 a year. So yea, you do keep fucking shooting each other. That you are not doing it as much anymore means fuck all, its still high enough to warrant criticism. Especially of those types that think they need guns in the first place for anything other than hunting.

As for the problems inherint in your system, it absolutely does have to do with gun rights. Not exclusively, mind you. But it all comes back to the American sense of entitlement. The American dream, the right to bear arms, and the inability by large swaths of your population to try and understand anything beyond your own borders. (A prime example of that would be how your intelligence community thought so little of the deep rifts in Iraqi society) Now, the problem is considerably more complicated than even that, but i don't have the time to go into a dissertation on the subject.

Case in point. FLOW. Agression from some people in the Middle East goes back fucking decades, not to the 1990's and the rights insatiable hate for Bill Clinton. Go back to incidents like Operation Ajax, and decades of US intervention in ME foreign policy. To be honest, the only countries that think themselves safe from US agression are those with nukes, which only drives the race for armament further instead of lessening it.

But trying to understand a point is so hard, and time consuming! Far easier to have a sound bite on Fox, grip your guns and promise to send yet more bullets down range, and ra-ra-ra around the flag.

Edited by Arthmail, 08 March 2012 - 08:55 PM.

[Sci-2]

TrackerNeil, on 08 March 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Who says the Democrats can't play the game as well as Republicans? Tee-hee! I'd do the same damn thing: ride that train until the wheels fall off.

I'm actually surprised that a war on women is how the social conservatives decided to rally their base. Seems like we're in the death throes of this idiotic "movement".

[DanteGabriel]

sciborg2, on 08 March 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

I'm actually surprised that a war on women is how the social conservatives decided to rally their base. Seems like we're in the death throes of this idiotic "movement".

I've thought that before and been wrong.  The resiliency of absolutely stupid, retrograde beliefs is surprisingly strong, since they're rooted in our lizard brain parts.  The troglodyte wing of the GOP will always have some customers because there will always be some other person whose fault it is that stupid people's lives suck.

[TrueMetis]

DanteGabriel, on 08 March 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

I've thought that before and been wrong.  The resiliency of absolutely stupid, retrograde beliefs is surprisingly strong, since they're rooted in our lizard brain parts.  The troglodyte wing of the GOP will always have some customers because there will always be some other person whose fault it is that stupid people's lives suck.

Creationism has managed to hang on despite being constantly mentally curb stomped for he past 150 years. So ya.

[lockesnow]

I don't care at all about gun control.

Bullet control is another matter.  Either they should be priced very high (is 10,000 a bullet too low?) or heavily regulated.