114 replies to this topic

[Kynokephalos]

Former Lord of Winterfell, on 01 May 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

That's the tough part.  My wife lost her brother (a Gulf War vet) to leukemia after the war, and there were a significant number of guys in his unit who contracted it as well.  Yet, civilians who hadn't been to the Gulf obviously contracted it too.  Just sucks, really.

I've read suggestions that it might have something to do with highpowered radar stations without sufficient shielding among other things. But as usual with electromagnetic radiation causing diseases ymmv.
Two articles I found interesting about autism are the following: Biomarker for Autism and Early Child Brain Differences in Autism. Both suggest a strong heritable component.

[Josephxoxo]

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Jo, if autism is a sensory disorder, and ADD is a sensory disorder, and both are on the rise, why do you think autism should be singled out and attributed to vaccines instead of huge sensory differences in the modern environment?

Well, if you have ADD then you certainly have to be born with it. You don't just get ADD out of nowhere. A parent may not even discover a child has ADD until the child's like 9-10.

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Joseph, how would we know if it actually is more common now? Today we have statistics on those diagnoses. That hasn't always been the case. How do you know it's more today than before? Not just reported but actual cases?

It's called Record keeping.  Without that civilization would be stuck in the stone age.

Edited by Josephxoxo, 01 May 2012 - 02:35 PM.

[Raidne]

Was he around Basra? Army First Infantry?

[Nukelavee]

Joe, you said it wasn't common, not less common.  I'm pointing out that it was common, and more common than you think, because people didn't make a note of it.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Raidne, on 01 May 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Was he around Basra? Army First Infantry?

Yup.

[Josephxoxo]

Well if you want to play the statistic game even since the recent 1990's Autism has been going up dramatically. And I guess since the news talks about how autism has been going up nearly every week for the past 8 years, they're all lying to you.

[Raidne]

There is a 4-fold rate of increase in luekemia - and stomach cancer - in that particular region. That kind of specific regionalized evidence would pretty much do the job on the issue of causation over here, or at least I think it should. I'm really sorry for you and your wife's loss. If he was married his wife would have the option of compiling that evidence and filing for service-connected death benefits.

[Raidne]

Josephxoxo, on 01 May 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Well if you want to play the statistic game even since the recent 1990's Autism has been going up dramatically. And I guess since the news talks about how autism has been going up nearly every week for the past 8 years, they're all lying to you.

So has ADD. Why do you have to be born with ADD and not autism? Identical twin studies are about the same - 50% or higher for both, strongly indicating a genetic component in both cases.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Josephxoxo, on 01 May 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Well if you want to play the statistic game even since the recent 1990's Autism has been going up dramatically. And I guess since the news talks about how autism has been going up nearly every week for the past 8 years, they're all lying to you.

I certainly can't dispute any of those statistics.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Raidne, on 01 May 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

There is a 4-fold rate of increase in luekemia - and stomach cancer - in that particular region. That kind of specific regionalized evidence would pretty much do the job on the issue of causation over here, or at least I think it should. I'm really sorry for you and your wife's loss. If he was married his wife would have the option of compiling that evidence and filing for service-connected death benefits.

Interesting.  Would that option still exist?  Because he was married at the time, and until death.

[Kynokephalos]

Josephxoxo, on 01 May 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Well if you want to play the statistic game even since the recent 1990's Autism has been going up dramatically. And I guess since the news talks about how autism has been going up nearly every week for the past 8 years, they're all lying to you.

Do you believe this more common reporting has anything to do with better and more common diagnostic screening for autism? As far as I know the goal today is to treat children with autism earlier to mitigate some of the effects autism may have on their quality of life.

[Ormond]

A quote from the Abnormal Psychology textbook I'll be teaching from this summer (Oltmanns & Emery):

The "epidemic of autism" may be more or a reason for celebration than paranoia. Leading expertss agree that, while some undetected environmental causes cannot be completely ruled out, the increasing estimates are most likely due to increased awareness and broader diagnostic criteria. (Barbaresi et. al.,2005; Charman, 2002; Miles, 2011; Newschaffer et. al., 2005; Rutter, 2005; Wing & Potter, 2002). One piece of evidence in support of this interpretation is the declining percentage of children diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorders who have comorbid intellectual disabilities in more recent years. This indicates that the diagnosis is being applied more to less severly disturbed children.

This fits almost all the discussions I've read of this over the last decade: the idea that the true rate of autism has decreased is very debatable. There are many more cases being diagnosed, but it's quite probable this is accounted for by milder cases being diagnosed and physicians and psychologists being more aware of the symptoms and so giving people who would formerly only have been labeled "retarded" or "socially inept" with some label from the "autism spectrum."

I also haven't seen any data that "mental retardation" per se has increased. That is way too broad a category to be very meaningful in such a discussion, any way. Which of the hundreds of  problems associated with retardation are supposed to have increased? Down syndrome? Fragile X? Fetal alcohol syndrome?
Can research which claims any particular type of retardation has increased by pointed to? If not I don't find the statement that "mental retardation has increased" be very credible.

[Seli]

Josephxoxo, on 01 May 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Well if you want to play the statistic game even since the recent 1990's Autism has been going up dramatically. And I guess since the news talks about how autism has been going up nearly every week for the past 8 years, they're all lying to you.

Which is most likely due to increased detection, earlier detection and more sensitive detection. (an overview with some caveats)

In contrast the decrease in deaths, maiming and invalidations by infectious diseases can be nicely correlated to vaccination. And at the same time recent break-outs in some diseases can be nicely correlated to decreased vaccination rates.

[Nukelavee]

Dude, if they didn't keep accurate records 100 years ago, or earlier, or even use the same criteria we do now...how can you even compare numbers?

You have no numbers to compare from 100 years ago that are accurate.

So, yeah, when the news says "Jenny MacCarthy says vaccines cause autism", and act like it's a documented fact...it's a lie.

Plus, hmm, small pox vs autism?  I'll take teh latter, thanks.

[TerraPrime]

Also, measles is a viral disease, not a bacterial disease.

But hey, why let science and reality intrude on someone's fantasy.

[Newsun]

Interesting topic; I'm 18 and I've just recently been diagnosed with bipolar disorder with antisocial and narcissistic tendencies. I'm on 4 mg of risperidone, a powerful antipsychotic medication, and I know my mother is extremely upset because she is afraid of the long term side effects. I'm also on lexipro, although I haven't seen any effects whatsoever from that one. I just think this discussion is interesting as it pertains to my particular case quite a bit.

[kalbear]

I think it's clear that autism is entirely because of something we are doing. Something more frequent since the 90s. Something insidious that we take for granted every day.

That's right - autism is clearly and heavily correlated to internet porn use.

Sure, we don't know why yet. Maybe masturbating more frequently or more efficiently causes men to damage sperm. Maybe messy facials ingested by women change hormones in the women just enough. Perhaps it is audible or visual cues that change RNA for the worse. We don't know yet which, if not all, of these are the root cause.

But with your help, patient methodical research and experimentation we can crack this, I know it.

In the meantime, if you are personally worried about how modernity seems to be causing all of these diseases i would stay away from the Internet whenever possible. It could be popular ads or the blink tag for all we know. Better safe than sorry.

[Josephxoxo]

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Dude, if they didn't keep accurate records 100 years ago, or earlier, or even use the same criteria we do now...how can you even compare numbers?

You have no numbers to compare from 100 years ago that are accurate.

So, yeah, when the news says "Jenny MacCarthy says vaccines cause autism", and act like it's a documented fact...it's a lie.

Plus, hmm, small pox vs autism? I'll take teh latter, thanks.

Do you have any idea what it's like to live with an autistic person? I do. Most of my I used to live with a severely autistic sister four years older and an autistic brother 1 year older. No one in my family on both sides has ever had a case of Autism going back 4 generations. So yeah, I do believe it's the vaccines. As for the severely autistic sister, I would have welcomed her to die of smallpox rather then her growing up with autism. It'd have been a mercy to her. So I'll take the former.

And if I have children, they're not getting injected with vaccines and being risked to autism, or their children being risked to autism. And I'm not taking injections for the rest of my life and risk my seed to have a genetic disorder because of it. Because I'll tell you this, being the only non-autistic sibling was fucking hell. Raising autistic children as a parent? No fucking way; if the doctors know the child of my gf has a brain problem, she's getting an abortion ASAP. And I'll fucking risk the flu, the measles, whatever fucking diseases thar hardly exist in America. This isn't Africa or South America. Sure, maybe I'll put a tetnus shot here, another very important shot there when they're older. But dozens or hundreds of injections for random diseases? I remember getting an injection for some random disease at 13, that hardly exists anymore. It's ridiculous and unneccessary.

[Res ipsa loquitur]

Joseph, I am so sorry you have autism in your family. Ive worked with severely autistic and special needs kids, I know its a challenge. But vaccines do not cause autism. The "doctor" who said that lied. The study he did that showed that was fraud.

Vaccines PREVENT illnesses that CAUSE brain damage. Some of the diseases we vaccinate for can result in meningitis, (HiB) which is an inflammation of the lining of the brain which can make a hitherto normal child into a vegetable. Measles can result in encephalitis, another swelling of the brain that can cause coma and even death.

How does your girlfriend feel about your beliefs regarding vaccinations, and your beliefs that you have the right to have HER get an abortion, ASAP?

The risk of disease well outweighs the slight sting of the vaccination; its madness to NOT vaccinate children when there is no medical contraindication against it.

[Raidne]

Newsun, on 01 May 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

Interesting topic; I'm 18 and I've just recently been diagnosed with bipolar disorder with antisocial and narcissistic tendencies. I'm on 4 mg of risperidone, a powerful antipsychotic medication, and I know my mother is extremely upset because she is afraid of the long term side effects. I'm also on lexipro, although I haven't seen any effects whatsoever from that one. I just think this discussion is interesting as it pertains to my particular case quite a bit.

Trust the experts, but I've also recently read from a very credible source that ADD is frequently misdiagnosed as bipolar as the difference for an observer is generally the level of severity only, i.e. a person with ADD will have ideas about things they want to accomplish and are often highly innovative but untreated will be unable to carry these plans out, but bipolar involves truly grandiose thoughts. Both involve risk behavior - for a person who is bipolar this is because they feel invincible, but for a person with ADD it's because they are trying to find something to hold their attention. I defer to Ormond on all of this, naturally, and If you react well to the medications you are on, then hopefully the professionals are on the mark. If not, something to think about.

I'd imagine giving ADD meds to someone who was truly bipolar would be disastrous so not something to experiment around with without a great deal of thought, but severe ADD seems to be very commonly misdiagnosed (which is funny, because with everything else, it's the less severe things that are problematic, seemingly).

Edited by Stubby, 02 May 2012 - 01:30 AM.
Mod Edit: Personal attack removed.