The gift chapter and a clue regarding "Aegon/Young Griff"Another Ref
Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:28 AM
Why then would Team Blackfyre (Illyrio & Varys) help the real Targaryens Viserys & Dany obtain a Dothraki army? Well, they could certainly help bleed Westeros & pave the way for the True King Aegon. Plus they are maintaining the fiction that Aegon is a true Targaryen, which would presumably lead Viserys & Dany to bend the knee to him & help him.
Also why would Varys "lie" to Kevan? Obviously because the little birds were listening.
Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:18 AM
I'm not so sure that people dislike him. He is interesting, and has a role to play, I just view him as a pawn, not a player.
Even if by some miracle he wins the throne, he isnt going to keep it very long IMO.
I think that he is a creation of Varys, and that he will end up dead in order to serve Varys' grand scheme in some way..
Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:23 AM
I'm about 90% convinced Aegon will turn out to be a Blackfyre pretender. But still a doubt - why harbor Viserys and introduce him to Khal Drogo, with Daenerys's bride price being Drogo's help to regain the Iron Throne? They surely couldn't foresee that Viserys would get himself killed (Illyrio urged him to stay with him and not follow Drogo) or that Daenerys would then find a way to hatch out dragon eggs. What could this be but a straightforward plan to restore Aerys's son to the throne?
And if their first plan was to restore Viserys, would they so easily move on to a Blackfyre replacement? Or is their allegiance to all Targaryen descendants?
Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:46 AM
- Use Daenarys to get an army ready to take back Westeros, for the moment understood to be used to get Viserys his throne.
- At the right time, spring "Aegon".
- "Aegon" has the better claim, and so Viserys and Daenarys would be expected to help him, bringing the Dothraki screamers along for the ride.
- The support of known Targs (Viserys and Daenarys) for "Aegon" make it seem much more likely to the people of Westeros that he really is Aegon and not just a pretender.
- As long as "Aegon" produces an heir, the throne still passes to the descendants of the Blackfyres instead of the other Targs.
Edited by It Rhymes With Meek, 23 March 2012 - 11:48 AM.
Posted 23 March 2012 - 05:28 PM
Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:28 AM
Edited by Lord Damian, 24 March 2012 - 12:30 AM.
Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:38 PM
I think its in the Tyrion POV that someone tells him that the reason the GC broke their contract is because some contracts supersede others, especially those writ in blood. Something along those lines. That's all the proof we need, the Golden Company's blood contract is to secure the heir to the Blackfyre bloodline to the iron throne.
Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:40 PM
I don't think Illyrio had the Tattered Prince driven out of Pentos, but he probably left around the time of Illyrio's rise to power in Pentos. he will have some things to say about Illyrio. I agree Illyrio's wife may have been a Blackfyre descendant and Aegon his son. After the Maelys the Monstrous's death, Illyrio and others involved in the Blackfyre ascendancy came up with a plot that would place the son of the female Blackfyre heir on the Iron Throne, not from conquest without but from within.
Posted 28 March 2012 - 01:52 AM
Varys outright saying what is going to hapen is tto obvious and out if character for him and GRRM
Honestly based on everything Ive learned about Varys, it makes no sense that he would put a dragon on the throne, black or red.
Posted 30 March 2012 - 11:10 AM
Thing to understand, bastard bloodlines only sit the throne if they've been legitimized or the true-born have died out. Even if the latter happens, there's likely to be some bloodshed before it can effectively happen. Once there's a new king who's got a reasonable level of acceptance, him being replaced by someone deemed more eligible is only going to happen via warfare.
There's no absolute rules, of course. While Robert Barratheon took the Iron Throne by beating the Targaryen forces on the battlefield (and by Jaime killing Aerys II), one of the biggest reasons it was him sitting the throne rather than Jon Arryn or Eddard Stark is that the Barratheon family was a bastard line of the Targaryen family. Going WAY back to the family's beginning there was bastard Targaryen blood. More recently and more importantly, Robert's grandmother was Rhaelle Targaryen.
None of this is an automatic switch that makes someone the next king. If you've got enough things that make you acceptable by the masses (more importantly to the powerful few) and you've got the political and military capabilities to become king, you stand a better chance of winning the game of thrones...
Posted 30 March 2012 - 11:27 AM
Hm? His intent since day one has been to do so. He profits from chaos and he profits from the Targs more than he does the Lannisters, et al. Killing Kevan was clear evidence of that; Kevan was a threat to stabilize matters. Cersei will not be able to muster enough martial strength to push off the Targ attack, but I assume everyone will be SOL once the walkers get on the move.
Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:46 PM
Robert's grandmother was Rhaella Targaryen, who was legally married to his grandfather. He had SOME form of a claim, which was admittedly far less than Viserys had.
One's claim on the throne is really only as important as it helps one gain backers. Some houses will go to whatever side offers them the best reward for doing so. Then there's gonna be the occasional Ned Stark type. Having some kind of seemingly legitimate claim helps one rally the troops and get others to go along.
It's not like there's a Westerosi Supreme Court that's going to trace Targaryen lineage back to the Valyrian Doom. There's right, there's right enough until something righter comes along,and there's right enough until they totally screw things up enough that you simply let someone else take over. Aerys was a bad enough king that enough of the key players aligned against him. Robert wasn't an ideal choice, but he was of royal enough blood, had enough of the right people behind him, and eventually won the war.
After the fall of Napoleon Bonaparte, nobody in France went looking for the most legitimately royal surviving member of my family to give the crown back to. Aside from having had a revolution to get rid of those folks, they were simply no longer politically relevant or powerful. Similarly, even if the Blackfyre family is "more legitimately Targaryen" than the surviving Targaryen herself, Aegon would not be crowned because he's a Blackfyre, he'd be crowned because the truth was swept under the rug. Not that I really foresee him winning after his popping up so late in "the game."
Edited by GrandPoobah, 30 March 2012 - 01:27 PM.
Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:02 AM
Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:44 AM
Eh, one claim really was as good as the other.
No one was really sure Daeron II was his a legitimate heir anyway, suspected to be the Son of the Dragonknight.
Blackfyre is the son of Aegon the unworthy and his sister, so Targ on both sides and the King did give him the sword.
Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:35 PM
Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:20 AM
The Blackfyres claim that Daeron was the son of Aegon’s brother, Prince Aemon Targaryen the Dragonknight, by Aegon and Aemon’s sister Queen Naerys Targaryen, who was simultaneously Aegon’s sister, wife, and queen.
One shouldn’t really call Daemon and Daeron half-brothers. Even though under the Blackfyre heresy they share no parents in common (and thus would not be brothers of any sort), they are nonetheless more closely related than normal brothers are because of the intense inbreeding. And they are both descended from Aegon the Conqueror on both their parents’ sides.
Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:05 PM
Even if yg is a blackfrye its still a better claim to the throne than any of cerseis children so he would on have dany and stannis to worry about.
Dark horse...does anyone else think edric storm has any shot of winning the throne? and he then would install gendy as storm lord? i think that would be great
Yeah but Dany, Vicerys and their Mother were on DragonStone, they weren't in King's Landing During the sack. To be honest i can't see any Baratheon sitting the Iron Throne Bastard or Not.
Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:51 PM
Varys is die-hard Blackfyre supporter. Before and during the rebellion, he had big influence on Mad King and a) he told him that Rhaegar wants removing Aerys as a king, causing tension between father and son he did nothing to stop events during Robert's rebellion. I think that he already wanted to prepare the realm for return of Blackfyre.
Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:57 PM
Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:04 PM
One possibility is that he is a Blackfyre himself. Another is that while he isn't a Blackfyre, his best friend's son is one.