40 replies to this topic

[ghost the direwolf]

redriver, on 07 March 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

Did Sansa die with Lady?

No she did not. she never saw Lady as a part of her as she did not have the chance to develop a connection with her. I do not mean die literally . just that the part of him that is ghost will die ( if i make sense)

[Ojji]

Jon killing part of himself, doesn't make sense.

[redriver]

ghost the direwolf, on 07 March 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

No she did not. she never saw Lady as a part of her as she did not have the chance to develop a connection with her. I do not mean die literally . just that the part of him that is ghost will die ( if i make sense)

Yes,but you're just backing my theory up.

Off to bed,answers later.

[theguyfromtheVale]

I agree Jon will probably have to kill Ghost at some point if he is to become AA Reborn, but I think Ghost would be the lion, not Nissa Nissa. After all, a wolf is the closest thing to a lion you get in the north - a carnivore hunting in packs. So here's what I think might happen (although I'm sure I'll be far off).
More precisely I assume the Lightbringer=NW theory. Jon is trying to "temper" the Night's Watch, but has failed at his first attempt, ending in the assassination attempt. I fear this will lead to the wall coming down, meaning the first tempering attempt was in the ice (or water) of the Wall. Jon will be trapped in Ghost's body, and will try to influence the remainders of the Night's Watch in that form, until he's revived - but for that, Ghost will have to die, and Jon will still be failing at getting the Night's Watch anywhere. Ultimately, Jon will have to slay Nissa Nissa - and here things get really fuzzy; I still think NN could be any woman Jon has a strong connection to: Melisandre or Val perhaps, possibly Arya, though I can't see how she'd get to the Wall, or even Dany (remember the "one to love" prophecy in the House of the Undying, where the associated vision was the blue flower on the wall of ice...)

[Val the Wildling Princess]

redriver, on 07 March 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

In terms of the vows,I think we have to go with what we have,as opposed to moulding things to fit our theories.

In terms of sacrifice,the original NN story as told by Sallador to Davos,relates that the hero killed she "who he loved best in all the world" in order to temper the blade.A true sacrifice.It's not like giving up chewing gum for Lent.

It's not like a have a whole theory about this, just a couple of ideas hehe, not trying to adjust the vows of the NW to my "theory" .But even if we assume that the vows of the NW never changed, that they were always the same we know, he had already crowned himself as King, he had took a wife, his vows were broken, I don't think he had any issues with having children. I'm not saying that the sacrifices he made were his own children but the possibility is there.

About NN, I still think Jon had made big sacrifices, he truly loved Ygritte, he loved/wanted Winterfell the most in the world when Stannis offered it to him, he loved his family (Arya especially) that doesn't mean I dont think he doesnt love Ghost, he sees Ghost as a part of him, as he says in ADWD, he feels what Ghost feels, sees what he sees, and I honestly don't want to think about Ghost being killed As I said, While I still think there won't be a real NN for Jon if he ever becomes AA (not AA but his ice equivalent, actually) if there is someone Jon loves more than anything, that's Arya for me.

Edited by Val the Wildling Princess, 07 March 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[Black Crow]

And that's who he may wind up dying to save if she is Adara...

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Black Crow, on 07 March 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

And that's who he may wind up dying to save if she is Adara...

Yes, yes, it is known, Arya is the Adara to Jon's Ice dragon

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

redriver, on 07 March 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

Here-http://awoiaf.wester...hp/Night's_King

Val the Wildling Princess, on 07 March 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

I think the only time we heard about the NK is through Old Nan telling the story to Bran. She says no one knew who he was, some say he was an Umber, a Flint, a Norrey, but she also says that his true identity was a Stark. It's on ASOS, in one of Bran's chapters.

So, we still don't have any real proof as of yet.

[Black Crow]

Old Nan is usually pretty reliable (insofar as anybody is) and clearly identifies him as Bran Stark:

He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down.”She always pinched Bran on the nose then, he would never forget it. “He was a Stark of Winterfell, and who can say? Mayhaps his name was Brandon. Mayhaps he slept in this very bed in this very room.

Edited by Black Crow, 07 March 2012 - 04:51 PM.

[Ramsay Gimp]

^She said he was definitely a Stark, but the "Brandon" part seemed just to be teasing Bran

[kissdbyfire]

Ojji, on 07 March 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Jon killing part of himself, doesn't make sense.

Exactly. I don't believe the whole Lightbringer and Nissa Nissa's sacrifice at all, but Jon killing Ghost is more a suicide than a sacrifice. Also, I think Jon would be willing to sacrifice himself to save someone, and since Ghost is a part of Jon and Jon a part of Ghost the 'sacrifice of the being you love the most' wouldn't apply here. Did I make any sense? Killing Ghost would be like killing himself and that would count as the same type of sacrifice as Nissa Nissa's was; it isn't the hardest sacrifice ever if you're willing to do it.

[kissdbyfire]

Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl, on 07 March 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

So, we still don't have any real proof as of yet.

Nope, not yet. I think it's very possible, but I also think it's at least as possible it's anyone else. My fave is, of course, a Bolton.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

Kissdbyfire, on 07 March 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

Nope, not yet. I think it's very possible, but I also think it's at least as possible it's anyone else. My fave is, of course, a Bolton.

Me too!

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

Black Crow, on 07 March 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Old Nan is usually pretty reliable (insofar as anybody is) and clearly identifies him as Bran Stark:

He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down.”She always pinched Bran on the nose then, he would never forget it. “He was a Stark of Winterfell, and who can say? Mayhaps his name was Brandon. Mayhaps he slept in this very bed in this very room.

How would she truly know? She's not 5000 years old. It is a possibility...

[Serie]

Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl, on 07 March 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

How would she truly know? She's not 5000 years old. It is a possibility...

but she actually knows (or seems to know) things as if she is indeed 5000 old!!! There's something about Old Nan...

[Apple Martini]

I still like the idea that Nissa Nissa is indicative of the Night's Watch vows to take no wives and father no children. Jon — and every other Night's Watch member — "sacrificed" his Nissa Nisa when he took his vows. "Sacrifice" has more than one meaning. It can mean to simply give something up. It doesn't have to mean "blood sacrifice" the way the red priest Azor Ahai legend — which I think has been warped from its original meaning — posits.

Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl, on 07 March 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

How would she truly know? She's not 5000 years old. It is a possibility...

She wouldn't, but Martin has said, I believe, that Old Nan's stories are the only truly accurate ones. Much of what she's said has proved to be true, even stuff that seemed childish or bizarre when we first read about it.

Edited by Apple Martini, 07 March 2012 - 06:03 PM.

[redriver]

There are some other visions and dreams which may support the theory.From Bran's coma vision-"He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal,and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed,his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him"

The orthodox view of this is that it's a real time vision of Jon sleeping at the Wall and that it indicates Jon's vows to remain at the wall for life.And he does make a comment early in AGOT that he will soon forget what it's like to be warm.

But the vision has echoes of how the WW is described in the AGOT prologue-"Tall, it was and gaunt and hard as old bones,with flesh pale
as milk".

Bran sees Jon's skin growing pale,which could be understandable,but hard?That's more difficult to comprehend.

Sleeping alone in a cold bed might also be a reference to the WW sleeping beneath the ice for thousands of years.

[Keep Shelly in Athens]

Haggon describes a warg's animal as a "wife," so it could be Ghost. Hope not thought. "Boy kills pet wolf, saves world" is a bad newspaper headline.

[redriver]

Ojji, on 07 March 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Jon killing part of himself, doesn't make sense.

It can makes sense if Jon becomes an Other.They tend not to want warm blooded creatures hanging around.

And "killing" might not mean he's dead dead,maybe an iced winged wolf or something like that.

It also gives him the prophecised red sword.

Will look at some more dreams and visions soon.

[lightbringer333]

but who told AA that killing nissa will turn his sword into lightbringer ??