52 replies to this topic

[sinphonus]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 07 March 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

But Dragons can fight on water, if Dragon fire can burn anything its pieces of wood

Tyrion did say Dragon's can be killed, they were killed during the Targaryen civil war, The Dance with Dragons, and i'm led to believe that the Targaryens gave their dragons some sort of armor, might be even Valyrian steel, those dragons were trained for war and yet they were killed,Targaryen dragons were killed and those were much larger than Drogon.

[Winter's Lady]

camradio, on 07 March 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

Thatd be great then we can hear more about her exciting adventures in Meereen! Who is the Harpy?!?!?!?!?...

Not sure if joking or serious

I think once she finally finally decides to head for Westeros she will have to leave a big part of her army behind. She will need somene to keep Meereen in check, and not only a trusted person (lol Daario XD) but also people to enforce this reign. Plus, how many people could the iron fleet carry, provided that she accepts Victarions support?

[Gingerly Grumkin]

sinphonus, on 07 March 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Tyrion did say Dragon's can be killed, they were killed during the Targaryen civil war, The Dance with Dragons, and i'm led to believe that the Targaryens gave their dragons some sort of armor, might be even Valyrian steel, those dragons were trained for war and yet they were killed,Targaryen dragons were killed and those were much larger than Drogon.

Well supposedly the lame ass Maesters killed the dragons. But regardless, if all my years of playing cyvasse taught me anything its that big pieces of wood that dont move very quickly are highly susceptible to ignite when dragon fire is applied

[PatrickStormborn]

My crackpot theory is that the maesters "killed" the dragons by orchestrating the dance of the dragons. But that's for another thread...

sinphonus, on 07 March 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

If she comes west she would most likely be smashed by the Redwyne fleet, they support Tommen now.
Though with Euron harrassing the shields the narrow sea has nothing but outlaws and pirates (Salladhor Saan, Aurane Waters, the rest of Stannis' ships who survived the Blackwater).
And why does everyone assume Aurane will join Daenarys, he was a Stannis man and if he brought the dromonds to Stannis with the excuse that he planned to cross the Lannisters Stannis would welcome him back, he is no fool, he knows that a comely boy with boats is better than a comely head and no boats.
And Aegon might even decided, or be decided for him, that Daenarys is useless, and the ships the Golden Company had would smash her fleet, unsullied don't fight in water, they are for making formations and standing their ground and dothraki would piss their breeches at the sight of a ship coming at ramming speed towards them.

Although Aurane is a "Stannis man", his family originally owed fealty to the Targaryens.

[sinphonus]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 07 March 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Well supposedly the lame ass Maesters killed the dragons. But regardless, if all my years of playing cyvasse taught me anything its that big pieces of wood that dont move very quickly are highly susceptible to ignite when dragon fire is applied

Give me Anguy, Theon and several ships with crossbows and you'll see how long dragons last, they could do what they did on the Blackwater and wildfire everyone of Dany's ships, and don't say she is impervious to fire, drowning will set her straight, her dragons are wild, who know what ships they'll burn.
And many great knights and brave men would be willing to die to have the name "Dragonslayer".
If Euron decides that Dany is a waste of space and a danger to his crown he could easily deafeat her and there are enough ironborn to subdue a dragon, it sweeps down and you throw a chain at it, then with enough men you offer him to the Drowned God.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

sinphonus, on 07 March 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Give me Anguy, Theon and several ships with crossbows and you'll see how long dragons last, they could do what they did on the Blackwater and wildfire everyone of Dany's ships, and don't say she is impervious to fire, drowning will set her straight, her dragons are wild, who know what ships they'll burn.
And many great knights and brave men would be willing to die to have the name "Dragonslayer".
If Euron decides that Dany is a waste of space and a danger to his crown he could easily deafeat her and there are enough ironborn to subdue a dragon, it sweeps down and you throw a chain at it, then with enough men you offer him to the Drowned God.

Theon? Look im not saying Dragons are invincible, im sure they could be offed, everybody likes to say it anyway, but how many ships would it take to kill a dragon? 1 breath from a dragon and a ship is in flames, mayhaps if the Iron Fleet had a dragon in a perfect circle they could be victorious, but then the Iron Fleet would consist of a handful of ships (and i still dont think they could even do that) If your planning on killing a dragon, best do it away from things that are flammable

Edited by Ndrew of Typhgarian, 07 March 2012 - 04:22 PM.

[sinphonus]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 07 March 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Theon? Look im not saying Dragons are invincible, im sure they could be offed, everybody likes to say it anyway, but how many ships would it take to kill a dragon? 1 breath from a dragon and a ship is in flames, mayhaps if the Iron Fleet had a dragon in a perfect circle they could be victorious, but then the Iron Fleet would consist of a handful of ships (and i still dont think they could even do that) If your planning on killing a dragon, best do it away from things that are flammable

Okay, burn the ships with fast small boats with some wildfire, when the dragon is near land, shoot, it gets near a castle, shoot, it decides to land, send a brave knight, or several, who dream of songs, its a small enough dragon for four men in full plate to defeat, one comes at it from the front with a mace, one from each side with spears and one from behind with an axe, that one cuts its tail off, and while the one in front batters his head, the two to the side pierce its wings, maybe even throw some wildfire on the dragon, is there any evidence of what wildfire does to dragons?

Maester Luwin complimented Theon's archery in ACOK and told him that if they had one hundred archers like him they could defeat Ser Rodrik and company.

Sellsails are as fickle as sellswords, if Dany hires some and things start going amiss, they would most likely attack or seize whatever cargo she assigned them and change colors, attacking their former allies.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

sinphonus, on 07 March 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Okay, burn the ships with fast small boats with some wildfire, when the dragon is near land, shoot, it gets near a castle, shoot, it decides to land, send a brave knight, or several, who dream of songs, its a small enough dragon for four men in full plate to defeat, one comes at it from the front with a mace, one from each side with spears and one from behind with an axe, that one cuts its tail off, and while the one in front batters his head, the two to the side pierce its wings, maybe even throw some wildfire on the dragon, is there any evidence of what wildfire does to dragons?

Maester Luwin complimented Theon's archery in ACOK and told him that if they had one hundred archers like him they could defeat Ser Rodrik and company.

Sellsails are as fickle as sellswords, if Dany hires some and things start going amiss, they would most likely attack or seize whatever cargo she assigned them and change colors, attacking their former allies.

Been playing some Skyrim recently? So do as we agree that plan A. for dragonslaying should not be boats.
Theon might have been good but now you could have a million Theons and they wouldn't be able to defeat Pod's dead dog Hero

[witless chum]

Meereen will be in better position soon. I think the end of Dance means Dany is going to politely suggest to the Khalasar that they'd rather follow the nice lady on the dragon and the Dothraki in general are going to flock to a Khalesi on a dragon. She'll put together a decent sized Khalasar and sweep down on the armies encamped around Meereen. The slavers' troops aren't of particularly great quality, and she'll be able to catch them between the city garrison, her khalasar and the sea.
She'll thus have gone east to go west.

sinphonus, on 07 March 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Tyrion did say Dragon's can be killed, they were killed during the Targaryen civil war, The Dance with Dragons, and i'm led to believe that the Targaryens gave their dragons some sort of armor, might be even Valyrian steel, those dragons were trained for war and yet they were killed,Targaryen dragons were killed and those were much larger than Drogon.

Here's an SSM, where Martin describes the Targaryen dragons killing each other during the The Dance of Dragons. It makes sense, the best way to kill a dragon is with a dragon. Just like the best way to shoot down a fighter plane is a better fighter plane.

sinphonus, on 07 March 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Give me Anguy, Theon and several ships with crossbows and you'll see how long dragons last, they could do what they did on the Blackwater and wildfire everyone of Dany's ships, and don't say she is impervious to fire, drowning will set her straight, her dragons are wild, who know what ships they'll burn.
And many great knights and brave men would be willing to die to have the name "Dragonslayer".
If Euron decides that Dany is a waste of space and a danger to his crown he could easily deafeat her and there are enough ironborn to subdue a dragon, it sweeps down and you throw a chain at it, then with enough men you offer him to the Drowned God.

I'd take that bet. Dragons, even Dany's, are big, tough fuckers. Remember, a dude jumped on Drogon's back and stabbed him with a lance and it didn't come close to

sinphonus, on 07 March 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Okay, burn the ships with fast small boats with some wildfire, when the dragon is near land, shoot, it gets near a castle, shoot, it decides to land, send a brave knight, or several, who dream of songs, its a small enough dragon for four men in full plate to defeat, one comes at it from the front with a mace, one from each side with spears and one from behind with an axe, that one cuts its tail off, and while the one in front batters his head, the two to the side pierce its wings, maybe even throw some wildfire on the dragon, is there any evidence of what wildfire does to dragons?

Maester Luwin complimented Theon's archery in ACOK and told him that if they had one hundred archers like him they could defeat Ser Rodrik and company.

Sellsails are as fickle as sellswords, if Dany hires some and things start going amiss, they would most likely attack or seize whatever cargo she assigned them and change colors, attacking their former allies.

killing him. Assuming Dany now has the hang of dragon flying and somewhat aimed fire breathing, I like her chances against a couple of ships. If I were Dany I'd come at you like a World War II dive bomber, flying my dragon straight and level above arrow range (something like 300 yards was the range of English longbows, so I'll cruise at 1200 feet) and then diving almost straight down onto your ship and set it afire. Probably your best bet in that situation would be to get the rider, rather than trying to bring down the dragon, but I think the dragon could set your ship afire first.

If a hail of arrows was all that was needed to keep dragons away, I think the Targaryens would have never gotten off Dragonstone.

sinphonus, on 07 March 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Okay, burn the ships with fast small boats with some wildfire, when the dragon is near land, shoot, it gets near a castle, shoot, it decides to land, send a brave knight, or several, who dream of songs, its a small enough dragon for four men in full plate to defeat, one comes at it from the front with a mace, one from each side with spears and one from behind with an axe, that one cuts its tail off, and while the one in front batters his head, the two to the side pierce its wings, maybe even throw some wildfire on the dragon, is there any evidence of what wildfire does to dragons?

And what stops the dragon from taking off and circling while it roasts your brave men in their armor? And there were quite a few people in the Pit of whatever the fuck when Drogon rolled in. He flew away with a minor wound after killing a bunch of people.

[Patchface12]

I could see Salla going to Dany. I thought maybe Aurane would go to Dany, but they mentioned strange ships in the Stepstones in Dance, which I took to be Aurane w/ the royal fleet. I think he's going to help attack Euron to make good with the Tyrells since Cersei, whom he served, has recently pissed them off.

It just seems so Martin to me. Just when u think Euron is going to triumph over the Redwyne fleet, Aurane suddenly shows up and turns the tide of the battle.

I see Tycho Nestoris having more to do with escorting Dany home, assuming Ramsay's letter is true.

[sinphonus]

witless chum, on 07 March 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Here's an SSM, where Martin describes the Targaryen dragons killing each other during the The Dance of Dragons. It makes sense, the best way to kill a dragon is with a dragon. Just like the best way to shoot down a fighter plane is a better fighter plane.

Selwyn of the mirror shield killed a dragon, Viserion and Rhaegal are wild as can be, might be one of them falls to the Yunkaii, one young dragon wouldn't stand a chance against the men of the Seven Kingdoms.

witless chum, on 07 March 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

I'd take that bet. Dragons, even Dany's, are big, tough fuckers. Remember, a dude jumped on Drogon's back and stabbed him with a lance and it didn't come close to

killing him. Assuming Dany now has the hang of dragon flying and somewhat aimed fire breathing, I like her chances against a couple of ships. If I were Dany I'd come at you like a World War II dive bomber, flying my dragon straight and level above arrow range (something like 300 yards was the range of English longbows, so I'll cruise at 1200 feet) and then diving almost straight down onto your ship and set it afire. Probably your best bet in that situation would be to get the rider, rather than trying to bring down the dragon, but I think the dragon could set your ship afire first.

If a hail of arrows was all that was needed to keep dragons away, I think the Targaryens would have never gotten off Dragonstone.

One dragon against a big fleet, it would be hard for it to win, and Aegon's dragon was ten times the size of Drogon and most likely had an armor.
You come like that and the dragon exposes its stomach, perfect for shooting with a big crossbow with a bolt aflame with wildfire.

The guy with the lance wore no armor and had next to no experience fighting, who would win between Drogon on the ground against Garlan Tyrell, Ser Tallad the Tall, Lothor Brune and the like, might be Jon Connington doesn't like the look of Dany and decides to go and give Drogon greyscale, he is quite the able fighter I believe.

witless chum, on 07 March 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

And what stops the dragon from taking off and circling while it roasts your brave men in their armor? And there were quite a few people in the Pit of whatever the fuck when Drogon rolled in. He flew away with a minor wound after killing a bunch of people.

Dragons don't think like that, i think, why didn't he do that in the pit when lots of people were coming for him, he prefers to stay in the ground and fight it seems, get a big axe with a big man and chop off his wings, after all, it is a young dragon with no training like Aegon's had.

[Independent George]

sinphonus, on 07 March 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

You come like that and the dragon exposes its stomach, perfect for shooting with a big crossbow with a bolt aflame with wildfire.

Tyrion is quoted in ADWD as saying that the underbelly of a dragon is as well armored as any other part; the only vulnerable parts are the eyes, and the brain behind them.

[Turkey Jack]

You forget Dany needs to kill Mago and Jhaqo and unite the Dothraki before she leaves Essos.  She will ride east to Asshai with the iron fleet and all ships captured in slaver bay following by sea, then completing Mirri Maz Dur taunt/prophecy


“When will he {Drogo} be as he was?” Dany demanded.

“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, (she sails round the world east to west)” said Mirri Maz Duur. “When the seas go dry (Dothraki sea turns to ghost grass beyond Asshai) and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. (my guess giant storm waves maybe?) When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he return, and not before.” The dragon has three heads, Dany must have 3 Targ heirs and the first will be Drogo reborn in danys eyes)

Autumn storms are worse than other season, so crossing the sea will be easier now that winter has come, agreed she needs an out in Mereen maybe ser grandfather since his POV is no longer needed.

[Apple Martini]

Turkey Jack, on 07 March 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

You forget Dany needs to kill Mago and Jhaqo and unite the Dothraki before she leaves Essos.  She will ride east to Asshai with the iron fleet and all ships captured in slaver bay following by sea, then completing Mirri Maz Dur taunt/prophecy


“When will he {Drogo} be as he was?” Dany demanded.

“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, (she sails round the world east to west)” said Mirri Maz Duur. “When the seas go dry (Dothraki sea turns to ghost grass beyond Asshai) and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. (my guess giant storm waves maybe?) When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he return, and not before.” The dragon has three heads, Dany must have 3 Targ heirs and the first will be Drogo reborn in danys eyes)

Autumn storms are worse than other season, so crossing the sea will be easier now that winter has come, agreed she needs an out in Mereen maybe ser grandfather since his POV is no longer needed.

Alternatively, Quentyn is the sun rising in the west and setting in the east, the Dothraki Sea in a drought is the "sea going dry" and the dragons burning the pyramids are the mountains blowing in the wind.

As for killing dragons, I have a hunch that the real goods on that information are in the book locked away in the Citadel.

[Turkey Jack]

Apple Martini, on 07 March 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Alternatively, Quentyn is the sun rising in the west and setting in the east

Nice interpretation but that still leaves Dany needing to pass through Asshai.  Until the books are finished we are just going to have to keep guessing

[Independent George]

I know it's a stretch, but the first thing I thought about regarding mountains blowing in the wind was Gregor Clegane being impaled.

[Patchface12]

Apple Martini, on 07 March 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

As for killing dragons, I have a hunch that the real goods on that information are in the book locked away in the Citadel.

Unless that book happened to be what Jaqen got the keys from Pate for in Oldtown. The Bravvossi are no fan of dragons. (interesting idea brought to my attention recently)

Yeah, I agree w/ u about Quentyn being the sun rising in the west and setting in the east. I The idea of the sea drying up being the Dothraki Sea during a drought makes sense. When its winter in the northern hemisphere, isn't it dry season in the southern hemisphere? with winter coming, that make sense (I know the asian steppes are in the northern hemisphere, but this might not be the case in westeros and essos

Another idea that might be possible was the mountains blowing in the wind like leaves being giant waves in a storm Dany encounters on her voyage back to Westeros. Winter storms at sea would be very violent.

Edited by Patchface12, 07 March 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[Justice for Elia]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 07 March 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

So assuming Dany has the Horde of Dothraki, an Army of Unsullied and at least One Dragon how will she get to Westeros? Salladhor the pirate is out of a job, and Xaro has been talking about boats since he heard the word dragon. Do the sellswords in slavers bay have a navy? The Martells and Illyrio prob back up Aegon now, so they wont help Dany. And where does Vic come in to this? He has a few ships but not enough to take her whole army.

She will probably end up in some kind of alliance with Victarion and the Iron Fleet. She does not have much of an army of which to speak, and will be counting on Dorne and the Golden Company once she makes landfall (although her unbelieveably bone-headed dismissal of Quentyn Martell may have dashed Doran's hopes for her).

[Know Face Man]

I believe Dany has plans to take over all lost Valyrian lands. Most people think she only wants to return to Westeros to reclaim her family's throne.

My idea is she will ride her Dragon along the coast with all her Unsullied, all her people as well as Khal Jhaqos with Victarions ship's alongside by sea. Reclaiming all of the lost Valyrian lands, freeing all slaves.

She might even pick up a sellsword company or Two. Maybe run into Aurane Waters

Edited by Know Face Man, 07 March 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Artos Stark]

I still think Aurane Waters is on his way with his navy to pick up Dany.