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Diamond vs Gladwell vs Bryson vs ?

Pop-sci show down.

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#1 Sheep the Evicted

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

Okay for the first 20 odd years of my life I have been reading fiction, the vast majority of it SpecFic, with the odd textbook, history book and autobiography thrown in. But then three months ago, after hearing incredibly positive reviews about it for years, I finally got round to reading Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. And it was good! Insightful, beautifully written and masterfully constructed it was everything people said it would be and more.

But I found Diamond himself even more fascinating then his story; I mean here was a man who had collected studies from multiple diverse fields, dedicated years of his life to piecing them together and refining his understanding until eventually he had this deeply profound underlying theory about humanity and the evolution of its civilizations. This was science! Or was it? I realized I wasn’t quite clear on what counts as science and Science with a capital S and just how we do the amazing things we do today that we take completely for granted. Luckily some quick googling showed me that Bill Bryson’s A Short History of Nearly Everything probably had the answer and that it was meant to be a pretty good book.

In my opinion, ASHNE isn’t merely good – IMO it is far and away the best book I have ever read.

I can honestly say it changed my life and how I look at the world which I can’t honestly say about any thing else; book or otherwise. In fact its one of those books that made me deeply angry that I hadn’t found it earlier. If I had read it when I was younger I would most definitely have made different choices and I would probably now be pursuing a meaningful career in an obscure field of academia.

Either way I was 2 for 2 and the Pop-Sci addiction was most definitely on. Bryson covered the age of modern science perfectly but what about what came before – especially Maths! I couldn’t find a Bryson-like comprehensive and ascessible history so instead I settled for the The Tiger that Isn’t by Andrew Dilnot. It wasn’t as joyously exciting as Bryson – it is about statistics after all – but it was still entertaining, hugely insightful and more than all that extremely relevant. 3 for 3.

So now I decided to apply this knowledge of statistics further by reading up on Economics – this naturally led me to Freakonomics by Steven Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner. It wasn’t what I was expecting – a study of small scale human incentives rather then a massive exploration of the Economy - but at the same time it was better then I could have dreamed. While reading the sequel Superfreakonomics the authors casually mentioned that Malcom Gladwell was the best author currently writing.

So I tried Gladwell’s third book Outliers; a study on success and how someone becomes successful. He’s not a scientist so he doesn’t qualify his observation or provide possible alterative conclusions but for all that it was a stunning book. What I find to be a true measure of Gladwells phenomenal skill as an author is that while I was very interested in the summary and subject matter of Outliers I wasn’t particularly interested in the theme of his first and most popular book – The Tipping Point – which was in my opinion a study on the creation of memes. But based purely on the strength of Outliers I read it anyway and it was at least every bit as breath taking as Outliers. His ability to find and tie-in fascinating research with his theme is second to none and his conclusions are usually supremely uplifting.

So where do I go from here?

As we are all probably quantitative folk I was thinking of listing these books in descending order of preference but as I have read both the Freakonomics and Outliers and the Tipping point within 6 days of eachother they have just blended into one super awesome book in my head.

Edited by Sheep the Evicted, 09 March 2012 - 03:35 PM.


#2 Stego

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:30 AM

You missed quite a few 'superstars,' but I don't see how those you listed compare, other than writing non-fiction.

Please bring more to a new thread than this unconsidered query. If what you are looking for is who to read, then the answer is yes. All you are going to get in reply to this is answers like:

"I haven't read Bryson but I think Diamonds are sparkly awesome and I had to read Gladwell in my college class and it was like really enlightening and the best book not from Dragonlance that I ever read. Everyone should read it I reccomend it highly it was awesome."

#3 Happy Ent

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:40 AM

Diamond +
Gladwell --
Bryson ?

Pinker ++
Dawkins ++

Dragonlance --

#4 Sheep the Evicted

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:18 AM

Yeah, yeah I know leaving it at a few words hurt my soul but something came up and i had to run. Probably should have just saved it and come back later but I don't trust this board. I’ll edit it now.

Ent i tried Dawkins he has good content and its very clearly thought out but the style of delivery is shit; he's not trying to gently convert anyone he's just preaching to the choir. All his work ever did for me was raise my heckles and postpone my....enlightenment ?... by a few months.

Pinker ?

Wait, Gladwell gets a [--] ? Why ? And is -- just one negative mark or two whole sperate signs of your dissaproval ?

Edited by Sheep the Evicted, 09 March 2012 - 12:31 PM.


#5 Seli

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:54 AM

Gamow  (if utterly outdated by now)

Greene

Peter Atkins  (I haven't read his most recent, the older stuff was good)

Dennett

William Calvin

Read Dawkin's older books, start with the selfish gene.

Feynmann (if only for his gift to make you think you understand what he is explaining while reading the text)

Simon Singh

Ian Stewart with Jack Cohen and Terry Pratchett.

#6 Happy Ent

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:48 PM

View PostSheep the Evicted, on 09 March 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

Ent i tried Dawkins he has good content and its very clearly thought out but the style of delivery is shit; he's not trying to gently convert anyone he's just preaching to the choir. All his work ever did for me was raise my heckles and postpone my....enlightenment ?... by a few months.
I don’t know what you’ve read by him, but I consider him the best pop sci writer I’ve read.

No gentleman’s education is complete without Selfish Gene and Blind Watchmaker, so why not start there? I also enjoyed The Ancestor’s Tale very much and learned a lot.

Quote

Pinker ?

Language Instinct is as good a pop sci book as you can find, par with Dawkins. Blank Slate I continue to find super important.

Quote

Wait, Gladwell gets a [--] ? Why ? And is -- just one negative mark or two whole sperate signs of your dissaproval ?

It’s as many signs of disapproval as I can put there. To me Gladwell is just a very gifted demagogue, but he’s vapid. He’s not a pop sci writer, and doesn’t deserve to be on your list. I also consider him to be intellectually dishonest. (Steven J Gould is out for the same reason, but he’s not vapid. He was actually a scientist and a very gifted writer.)

#7 Calibandar

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:38 PM

Can't offer much in the way of recommendations. I've read Gladwell's Outliers with pleasure, and found it insightful. I don't read too many nonfiction book,s but you've got me interested in Bill Bryson's book now. I see there's even an illustrated edition for the more easily distracted Non-Fic reader, a category I definitly fit in quite snug.

#8 Sheep the Evicted

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:47 PM

NOOOOOOOOOO!

DON'T READ THE PICTURE BOOK!

Seriously, i don't care if you were being sarcastic and it just flew over my head something like that can not be joked about. The picture book version is "written" for 5 year olds and contains maybe 1/20th the content of the original book and none of the awesome.

#9 Calibandar

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:32 PM

Ok, got it. Hadn't read it inside it yet.

#10 williamjm

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:32 PM

View PostSheep the Evicted, on 09 March 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

NOOOOOOOOOO!

DON'T READ THE PICTURE BOOK!

Seriously, i don't care if you were being sarcastic and it just flew over my head something like that can not be joked about. The picture book version is "written" for 5 year olds and contains maybe 1/20th the content of the original book and none of the awesome.

I've seen an illustrated edition of the full book, according to Amazon there's also an abridged children's version called A Really Short History of Nearly Everything.

#11 NewsToTom

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:50 AM

Gladwell is highly-skilled at turning scientific studies into narrative works of non-fiction for lay readers. In the process of that, a great deal of nuance and sophistication tends to be reduced to neat little lessons. From what I've read, a very high percentage of the time the people whose work Gladwell is popularizing tend to think very little of his work. This is true both of his books and his New Yorker articles. I read his stuff, too, and there's no question he's good at what he does, but you can't trust him.

The first question you want to ask yourself is, what do you want to read next? Do you want to learn about a particular subject? I haven't read the Bryson or the Dilnot, but following Diamond or Gladwell or Dubner will lead you off in different directions (Gladwell and Dubner can get you down a similar path). Or, do you just want people to recommend their favorite non-fiction with any sort of learning science-y bent?

#12 Sheep the Evicted

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 01:39 PM

View Postwilliamjm, on 09 March 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

I've seen an illustrated edition of the full book, according to Amazon there's also an abridged children's version called A Really Short History of Nearly Everything.

Ah your quite right. I was talking about A Very Short History, so the illustrated version won't make a difference.

View PostNewsToTom, on 10 March 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Gladwell is highly-skilled at turning scientific studies into narrative works of non-fiction for lay readers. In the process of that, a great deal of nuance and sophistication tends to be reduced to neat little lessons. From what I've read, a very high percentage of the time the people whose work Gladwell is popularizing tend to think very little of his work. This is true both of his books and his New Yorker articles. I read his stuff, too, and there's no question he's good at what he does, but you can't trust him.

Yeah as i mentioned its very clear from his work that he's not a scientist. Apparently Bryson has a similair problem but not nearly to the same extent - Bryson is very open about contradictary observations and his limited knowledge - but that may also be because he put alot more time into his book.  

Still, I am a child of the internet and after reading various conflicting history books it’s my habit to read up on a famous books wikipedia page - especially the criticisms section – after actually finishing it. This tends to give me a much more balanced view.

All in all though while you can take his conclusions of scientific studies with a full pitcher of salt I think his overall theme is sound and eye opening; culture, upbringing, fortuitous timing and hardwork are far more important to success then we as society give them credit for.


View PostNewsToTom, on 10 March 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

The first question you want to ask yourself is, what do you want to read next? Do you want to learn about a particular subject? I haven't read the Bryson or the Dilnot, but following Diamond or Gladwell or Dubner will lead you off in different directions (Gladwell and Dubner can get you down a similar path). Or, do you just want people to recommend their favorite non-fiction with any sort of learning science-y bent?

Anything is good so long as its good. If i have a prerfence though i think i would go down the Diamond route as i just finished the Gladwell/Dubner kick.

#13 sologdin

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:20 PM

consider him to be intellectually dishonest

as though mr. pinky were not.


So where do I go from here?

real science and real economics?

#14 unJon

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:28 PM

Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman is a must read in the pop sci category.  He's a nobel prize winner (economics), and this book is kind of his layman's version of a magnus opus: about the hueristics and biases inherent in human thinking (i.e., what there's no such thing as a rational man).  He's an awesome writer and he uses very creative and insightful examples (those familiar with behavior economics won't find new substance, but for those not, it's a fascinating subject).

Check out Fortune's Formula by William Poundstone.  Excellent book that touchs on statistics, Bell Labs, information theory, gambling, hedge funds and modern portfolio theory.  Extremely engaging, and is about (IMO) the second deepest mathematical formula I know about: the Kelly Criterion.  (First one being Bell's Inequality.)  [ETA: speaking only of mathematical formulas vis-a-vis the practical impact they have, so am ignoring, e.g., the Riemann Zeta Function]

I also enjoyed Against the Gods by Peter Bernstein, which is basically about the history of statistics and development of insurance.  Again, very engaging.

You'd probably also like anything by Ben Mezrich.  He turns various stories into (allegedly semi-fictional, or maybe highly dramatized) awesome stories (he wrote Bringing Down the House and the Social Network, among others).  Not pop-sci, but he has the same gift for finance topics that the authors you mention bring to science.

Edited by unJon, 10 March 2012 - 02:31 PM.


#15 NewsToTom

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:57 PM

I'll second the recommendation for Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow, which was one of the best books I read last year. Almost every page of it has something interesting and/or valuable. Against the Gods is also very good, though for me it was ... less epochal.

Another of the best books I read last year was Ian Morris's Why the West Rules-For Now. Like me and I think others, Morris found Diamond sufficiently convincing that human development was likeliest to arise somewhere in Eurasia but his explanation for why it arose in the West rather than in China was lacking. Morris tries to explain why the West rather than China, and in so doing produced the best single-volume large-scale world history I've read.

I'm guessing you'd enjoy Charles Mann's 1491 on the Americas before Columbus.

Edited by NewsToTom, 10 March 2012 - 05:50 PM.


#16 Happy Ent

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 05:22 PM

Nice thread, though we’ve had it many times before. I shut up about my Gladwell hatred.

Keep ’em coming, folks.

Phantoms in the Brain by Ramachandran. About neuroscience. Really weird and sometimes spooky stuff, and lovely experiments.  http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0688172172

Edited by Happy Ent, 10 March 2012 - 05:30 PM.


#17 unJon

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 07:15 PM

View PostHappy Ent, on 10 March 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:



Phantoms in the Brain by Ramachandran. About neuroscience. Really weird and sometimes spooky stuff, and lovely experiments.  http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0688172172
HE, went to buy this and noticed author has new book that just came out http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_sim_b_1
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

#18 IheartTesla

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 06:05 AM

View PostHappy Ent, on 10 March 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

Nice thread, though we’ve had it many times before. I shut up about my Gladwell hatred.

Keep ’em coming, folks.

Phantoms in the Brain by Ramachandran. About neuroscience. Really weird and sometimes spooky stuff, and lovely experiments.  http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0688172172

Hahahah, I have finally started reading the same books the Ent does. I think I found the ones where 'rewiring' in the brain took place after some physical trauma (loss of limb) to be the most compelling.

#19 Iskaral Pust

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:07 PM

Some of these authors were already discussed in the non-fic thread.

I'll heartily second Kahneman, Bryson, Diamond and Leavitt/Dubner (in that order).  I think Nassim Taleb is on par with these.  I would also suggest reading other non-technical economics books like Akerlof/Shiller's Animal Spirits and Thaler/Sunstein's Nudge

Gladwell is second tier -- writes well but takes great liberties in extrapolating to his theories.  

Singh definitely knows the content but his narrative tends to be narrower than those above.

I have not yet read Pinker or Dawkins but I am looking forward to both.

#20 Datepalm

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:23 AM

View PostIheartTesla, on 12 March 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

Hahahah, I have finally started reading the same books the Ent does.

A sign of...?

I think I read a really long interview with Ramachandran someplace on weird brain stuff, i'll have to check this out.

I don't get the love for Freakonomics.