Whats with the theory about Tyrion being a targ?

[James Arryn]

Tyrion is smart enough to understand that he holds an absolute advantage over nearly anyone in the world in a battle of wits. Instead of using it to achieve something for the good of himself...he prefers to amuse himself by flinging quips and jests on everyone.

I'm not sure what distinction you're making here?

He chooses the wrong self-interest?

He fails according to some abstract moral rubric that determines pursuit of some selfish ends (or extended) is more altrustic than others? Would using his wits to become more rich be a more moral use of his intellect than self-entertainment? Or more power?

Isn't it all shades of the same color?

In fact, wouldn't quips be one of the more benign uses of ability available to someone in his position in Westeros?

[Moshtradamus]

i don't buy this theory. if i haddd to buy a theory about any of Tywin's children actually being Aerys' children, i'd go with the twins theory. long before i'd go with this one. at least with that you can link to whatever happened on Tywin's wedding night regarding Aerys and Joanna, and with Cersei being batshit crazy.

[Howling Mad]

I don't know where I stand on the theroy of Tyrion being a Targ, either way GRRM takes its the foundation has been layed. I do not believe that Tyrion is beyond redemption for kinslaying from the reader's POV as some here have suggested. From my POV Tyrion's killing of Tywin was justified. What was not justifed was Tyrion's lie to Jamie about killing Joffery. Jamie was the one person in Tyrion's life who always looked out for him lying to Jamie was beneath Tyrion's character.

[Dolorous K Dilkington]

Tyrion being a secret Targ would be a good way for George to kill of Dany and still have there be 3 heads of the Dragon: Tyrion, Jon, Aegon

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

I don't know where I stand on the theroy of Tyrion being a Targ, either way GRRM takes its the foundation has been layed. I do not believe that Tyrion is beyond redemption for kinslaying from the reader's POV as some here have suggested. From my POV Tyrion's killing of Tywin was justified. What was not justifed was Tyrion's lie to Jamie about killing Joffery. Jamie was the one person in Tyrion's life who always looked out for him lying to Jamie was beneath Tyrion's character.

Tywin was intent on Tyrion's death, so it could almost be called self defence IMO.

I think it was in Tyrion's character to tell Jaime that he had killed Joffrey. He was at an extremely low ebb having been finally abandoned by his family, and the one person he thought that he could rely on now seems to doubt his innocence. Tyrion's natural response - a throwaway sarcastic comment, allbeit one with far reaching consequenses. I think that Jaime could forgive him Joffrey, who he recognised, (post his Brienne induced epiphany) as a monster, after all he still let him escape, but killing his Father is a step too far.

I do like the Tyrion Targ theory though. As people have pointed out the evidence is pretty thin, but it does sound good fun

[StarkDragon]

I took it as shadowing the similarities between the Targ dynasty and Tywin's children, and no more.

(They share incest, madness, destruction of their own family, etc)

[shiola]

It's also one of the only conceivable paths of redemption for him. If Tyrion is a Targ he wouldn't have murdered his father, instead he would've avenged his murdered family.

Though factually true, this point always bothers me. Tyrion was killing his father, whether Tywin was his blood relative or not. Just as Ned will always be Jon's father, Tywin will always be Tyrion's.

Overall, there's a lot of credibility to this theory. But, just like Dany and Jon maybe aligning, and Dany maybe being AA Reborn, it's one of the theories I am ignoring until it's proven otherwise, because I do not like it. I'll accept it if it's canonized of course, and I'll learn to appreciate it. But in the meantime, Tyrion is a Lannister.

[franko99]

Tywin truly loved Joanna, if Aerys ever touched her, Aerys would have been overthrow years before RR, and the Targs would have envy the Reynes's fates, just saying :cool4:

[Aerys Frost]

The biggest hole in this theory (for me) is Tywin. If he ever suspected his children weren't HIS, what reason does he have or advantage does he gain by keeping them?

It was said Tywin ruled the realm, Joanna ruled Tywin, but if Tyrions birth killed Joanna, Tywin has even less of a reason to keep him around.

And, as the sack proved, Tywin wasn't squeamish about small Targaryens being killed. (Though I realize they were killed for being legitimate and stood in succession)

[Snuggle King]

Many people have cited that Tyrion hasn't gotten any STI's in his adventures in brothels throughout Essos and Westeros. Are there references to STIs in the books? I can't recall any.

Reading through again, I think that Tywin did doubt that Tyrion was his child. This is his response to Tyrion asking why he wouldn't inherit Casterly Rock, in the first Tyrion chapter of the third book.

""You ask that? You, who killed your mother to come into the world? You are an ill-made, devious, disobedient, spiteful little creature full of envy, lust, and low cunning. Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine. To teach me humility, the gods have condemned me to watch you waddle about wearing that proud lion that was my father's sigil and his father's before him. But neither gods nor men shall ever compel me to let you turn Casterly Rock into your whorehouse."

[Duncan the Average Sized]

Alot of the dreams had by characters in-universe (particulary in the Dunk and Egg) that had Dragons in usually had the dragons representing Targaryens themselves rather than Dragons themselves.

Could this mean Tyrion dreaming of "riding" a dragon mean him tying himself to Dany's cause?

If Tyrion was a Targ wouldt he have Been the Dragon?

[oursisthefury69]

One small point: Targaryens are not immune to disease. Aegon the Unlikely ends up on the throne in part because some Targs further up in the line than him get sick and die in the 'Great Spring Sickness.'

And most starks aren't wargs but some are

[Muggle]

tyrion gona be riding the dragon fighting white walkers with jon and danny , it is known

[Lord_Tyrell]

I think this is the biggest theory I hate the most.

[Lordtoofat2sitAthrone]

i don't buy this theory. if i haddd to buy a theory about any of Tywin's children actually being Aerys' children, i'd go with the twins theory. long before i'd go with this one. at least with that you can link to whatever happened on Tywin's wedding night regarding Aerys and Joanna, and with Cersei being batshit crazy.

I agree. Then only true born son of Tywinn is grotesque, which is fitting based on what we know of Tywinn. Then Jamie and Tyrion are both Kinslayers. Jamie, a Kinslayer and Kingslayer, twice damned. Martin really as a way of capturing the imagination.

[Lord Rowmark]

Tyrion is not immune to greyscale. The Shrouded Lord refused to give Tyrion the grey kiss. This is why he doesn't get it, and the other two do. Therefore, we cannot conclude Tyrion is immune to disease. And since when does being immune to disease make you a Targayen??

Tyrion is not the only non-targayen to dream of dragons. Teora Tolland dreams of dragons too. Therefore, dreaming of dragons does NOT make you a Targaryen.

So both of these pieces of evidence are explained by other more reasonable explainations. Besides, who alive is going to tell him [or the reader] he is a Targaryen?

[Ser Joe the Unknighted]

Well for one, unlike Jon who may be legitimate, Tyrion would for sure be a Hill, not a Targaryen.

The bastard name comes from where the child is born or where they are raised. Tyrion was born and raised in the West so he'd be Hill.

He wouldn't be waters like how Aegor Rivers and Brynden Rivers were Rivers, not waters.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Tyrion is not immune to greyscale. The Shrouded Lord refused to give Tyrion the grey kiss. This is why he doesn't get it, and the other two do. Therefore, we cannot conclude Tyrion is immune to disease. And since when does being immune to disease make you a Targayen??

Tyrion is not the only non-targayen to dream of dragons. Teora Tolland dreams of dragons too. Therefore, dreaming of dragons does NOT make you a Targaryen.

So both of these pieces of evidence are explained by other more reasonable explainations. Besides, who alive is going to tell him [or the reader] he is a Targaryen?

But...Aegon IV slept around so much that Teora Tolland could easily be a descendant of his. Thus while not a full Targaryen, she would have, as Ben Plumm does, a drop or two of the dragon blood.

Who's going to tell him that he's a Targaryen? Anyone who sees him riding a dragon, that's who. The irony is that the clues are all there to make people think that he is a Targ bastard when in reality he isn't. It's back to power residing where men believe it resides. They have the idea that Targaryens are rulers, so Tyrion will be seen in a different light by the people of Westeros, not necessarily a better one, but a different one. And of course, if you have a dragon people are more inclined to listen to you and do what you say.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Because he was staring at Viserion when Viserion was injured, then he picked up a white bloody dragon and said, "We are with Dany", while sitting next to the only other person with BOTD within 1000 miles (whom Viserion already specifically liked).

It's kind of obvious friends.

[The Dragons Hand]

I've never bought the "If Tyrion was Aerys' son it excuses how Tywin acted towards him." because nothing can justify how Tywin dealt with Tyrion's relationship with Tysha.
If Walder Frey had a fraction of the emotional sensitivity Tyrion has his reaction to having this happen to him alone would make me side with him. Let alone the emotional trauma inflicted upon the woman in question.