Whats with the theory about Tyrion being a targ?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Tywin truly loved Joanna, if Aerys ever touched her, Aerys would have been overthrow years before RR, and the Targs would have envy the Reynes's fates, just saying :cool4:

Assuming he knew. Having suspicions is not enough. And if it was consensual, he couldn't very well blame Aerys for falling for the woman he loved (after all, Tywin probably thought Joanna was the most wonderful person on earth).

The biggest hole in this theory (for me) is Tywin. If he ever suspected his children weren't HIS, what reason does he have or advantage does he gain by keeping them?

It was said Tywin ruled the realm, Joanna ruled Tywin, but if Tyrions birth killed Joanna, Tywin has even less of a reason to keep him around.

And, as the sack proved, Tywin wasn't squeamish about small Targaryens being killed. (Though I realize they were killed for being legitimate and stood in succession)

1) Kinslaying. Tyrion seems to be the only one he suspected might not be his (even if it's just wishful thinking on his part). But he can't prove the suspicion with regard to any of the three. If he kills them he risks the curse (real or imagined) of having killed his own children, because they COULD be his. Also, since he married a first cousin, even killing her children who are not his would still be kinslaying, just to a lesser degree.

2) Everyone thinks they're his. So even if he knows for sure they aren't, he'll still be considered an accursed and unnatural man who killed his children. Tywin cares about the image of House Lannister more than the reality of it.

3) He loved Joanna. How could he kill HER children, the last remaining part of her? No way he could do that. Whether he ever loved the kids or not, SHE loved them, and he loved her. He wouldn't be able to do it. Assuming Joanna looked like a Lannister, we know the twins do. When he looks at them he sees her. And when he looks at Tyrion, though he doesn't SEE Joanna, he can't help thinking of her. She gave her life to bring Tyrion into the world. He cannot make that sacrifice worthless by killing the kid. In a way, Tywin is a bit tragic.

4) Power. Jaime is one of the greatest knights in the land and Cersei DID become queen. If only she had stuck to the plan and had her husband's kids, Tywin gets a Lannister on the throne who is assumed to be his grandchild whether he actually is or not.

[Ser Joe the Unknighted]

He's a Hill not a Targ.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

He's a Hill not a Targ.

The subtleties of bastardy are lost on some of us modern people. We haven't had to deal with it in so long.

I just figure whenever anyone calls Tyrion a Targ, they mean that Aerys was his father. Which of course does not make him a true Targaryen. As you say, he would be a Hill.

[ThePosterThatWasPromised]

Exactly. I hate the Tyrion a secret Targ theory because it robs the Tyrion-Tywin relationship of its emotional punch. Let's hope GRRM is just trolling us.

I think George tried to write in the fact that Tywin had suspicions to improve the punch and some all-star Tinfoilers went nuts.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I think George tried to write in the fact that Tywin had suspicions to improve the punch and some all-star Tinfoilers went nuts.

If that were the only indication that Tyrion might have Targ blood I would agree.

I still think he's 100% Lannister, but there are quite a few little things in the text that make it look like he could be Aerys' bastard. Pretty sure there's a reason for that.

[Chinoiserie]

The subtleties of bastardy are lost on some of us modern people. We haven't had to deal with it in so long.

I just figure whenever anyone calls Tyrion a Targ, they mean that Aerys was his father. Which of course does not make him a true Targaryen. As you say, he would be a Hill.

Considering that Hill means that you are a bastard but does not indicate who is your father Tyrion Targ is more clear (even if the the theory maybe should just be called A+J=T like Jon theory should be called R+L=J so the theory names do not annoy people). But there are some crackpot theories about Tryrion being son of Lewyn Martell or Tywin's brothers so Tyrion Hill could be applied to them too.

But I do not think Tyrion would really be called Hill if his parentage would be made clear now. Either he would keep calling himself a Lannister or be legimized by Dany or someone else either Targaryen or Lannister (from his mothers side, I do not think this is done in Westeros but it is hardly impossible). There is stigma with bastard names so Tyrion would like to avoid be called one even if other people would call him Tyrion Hill.

[twikee]

About Tyrion's deformities, I think this is because he is a son of cousins Joanna and Tywin. Also, his fascination for dragons were fueled by his extensive reading. One thing I could probably agree upon "Tyrion is a secret Targ" theory is his dragon dreams.

But I am still convinced Tyrion is a pure Lannister.

[Tyrell_like_Squirrel]

Not to insult anyone who buys into the theory, but I hate A+J=T with a burning passion. I don't see the evidence for it as being strong at all. I find that it undermines a pretty important relationship in the books and it really doesn't serve any purpose. I think it's a red herring at best. I've never understood why people are so desperate to believe it.

There are dumber theories though, most of them involving Howland Reed secretly being someone we've already met.

[Criston of House Shapper]

Not to insult anyone who buys into the theory, but I hate A+J=T with a burning passion. I don't see the evidence for it as being strong at all. I find that it undermines a pretty important relationship in the books and it really doesn't serve any purpose. I think it's a red herring at best. I've never understood why people are so desperate to believe it.

There are dumber theories though, most of them involving Howland Reed secretly being someone we've already met.

But he has dragon dreams.

[Lord Freypie]

The hints about Tyrion having a special link with Targs are numerous in first book, to the point I imagined this kind of scenario in my first read before even realising R+L=J, and far far before the first mention of Aerys interest for Joanna.

I don't really love the consequences of A+J=T (imo it's uneeded, as Tyrion would be more interesting having just his brain/knowledge for him rather than magical targ blood, even if he is to get a dragon), but considering the many hints confirming something may have happened between A&J (especially the reveal of an occasion with Joanna in KL just before being pregnant of Tyrion in Twoiaf) I find hard to discard this theory (it's at least either true either an intended red herring, and I don't see why Martin would have made one here - except if the truth is A+J = C&J perhaps, but there are less elements in this direction).

I wouldn't be unhappy if the two are finally revealed false that said, but I would find it strange.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

If that were the only indication that Tyrion might have Targ blood I would agree.

I still think he's 100% Lannister, but there are quite a few little things in the text that make it look like he could be Aerys' bastard. Pretty sure there's a reason for that.

Thank you! Exactly!! There is a reason for it. #NuffSaid