400 replies to this topic

[Fez]

Well no matter what one really good thing about all this has been that frustrated fans over on the BSN forums have created a charity drive; the idea being, if you don't like the ending, show it by donating money. In a little over a day they've raised over $30,000 from 1100 people for Child's Play; a charity that provides toys and games for children in hospitals.  So that's very cool.

ETA: So the IOS app (dunno why its not available on Android), which is this app that has a mini-game that lets you raise your galaxy at war and has the codex in it and a few other things, also has a system where you get e-mails from squadmates after certain events in the game (ex. Tali sends you one complaining about her hangover). Check out the one you get after you beat the game.

Now there is evidence that these sometimes come out of order, so its possible this is meant to be sent by the VS when they're in the hospital near the beginning, but that wording sure doesn't suggest it. And apparently people only have gotten it after beating the game; never beforehand.

ETA2:

Sivin, on 13 March 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Micheal Caine, you say? That's weird, because I would have sworn that he sounded like my english-accent Joseph Goebbels impersonation...

Well Michael Caine circa 1975, but yeah. Check out 6:45 here.

Weak With The Dawn, on 13 March 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

What class are you doing your Insanity run on. I'm going through as an infiltrator and it's not as hard as I expected it to be. (Only at the Citadel Coup mission).

Soldier, as always; and yeah, it hasn't been nearly as bad as I thought.  Granted I imported by ME3 Shepard, so I started level 57 and have all the guns, mods, armors, and credits that I had ended the game with, and now have the ability to upgrade guns to level 10; so all that makes it easier. Still early goings though.

Edited by Fez, 14 March 2012 - 08:05 AM.

[Werthead]

Quote

with the Mass Relay network knocked out, they’re all basically stuck there

People keep saying this and I'm not up on the lore, but isn't there a 'normal' FTL drive that doesn't rely on the mass relays? I recall someone saying that using the standard FTL drive it should still be possible to cross the Galaxy in 28 years, which is, for comparison's sake, still about five times faster than Warp 9.9 in Star Trek. The destruction of the mass relays is a massive blow, but it's not the 'everyone goes back to the Stone Age OMG!' apocalypse that people seem to be taking it as.

Also, curiously little commentary here on the similarity between the idea behind ME's ending and New BSG. Aside from a few, "This ending sucks worse than BSGs!" comments I've seen around the Internet, the comparison doesn't seem to have come up much. Might be a resul of ME3 selling more than twice as many copies so far than there were viewers of BSG's finale (which is a pretty crazy thought).

[Weak With The Dawn]

Werthead, on 14 March 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

People keep saying this and I'm not up on the lore, but isn't there a 'normal' FTL drive that doesn't rely on the mass relays? I recall someone saying that using the standard FTL drive it should still be possible to cross the Galaxy in 28 years, which is, for comparison's sake, still about five times faster than Warp 9.9 in Star Trek. The destruction of the mass relays is a massive blow, but it's not the 'everyone goes back to the Stone Age OMG!' apocalypse that people seem to be taking it as.

Also, curiously little commentary here on the similarity between the idea behind ME's ending and New BSG. Aside from a few, "This ending sucks worse than BSGs!" comments I've seen around the Internet, the comparison doesn't seem to have come up much. Might be a resul of ME3 selling more than twice as many copies so far than there were viewers of BSG's finale (which is a pretty crazy thought).

Yeah the Mass Relays being destroyed is really only unfortunate for the Salarians, who have the shortest life span and thus, would spend the most amount of their lives traveling back home. To the Asari and Krogan though, it's just another walk in the park. Even if they don't have all the supplies they need, the galaxy is littered with space stations and colonies that they could stop to get topped off at.

However, some people get the God Child saying Mass Relays and Synthetic Life will be destroyed. Other people have clips of the God Child saying "Mass Relays and most of the technology you rely on". So, if the endings are taken at face value, it could be a much more critical blow.

[Jon AS]

Werthead, on 14 March 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

The destruction of the mass relays is a massive blow, but it's not the 'everyone goes back to the Stone Age OMG!' apocalypse that people seem to be taking it as.

Except for the part where the destruction of a relay supposedly wipes out whatever star system it is located in.

Werthead, on 14 March 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

Also, curiously little commentary here on the similarity between the idea behind ME's ending and New BSG. Aside from a few, "This ending sucks worse than BSGs!" comments I've seen around the Internet, the comparison doesn't seem to have come up much. Might be a resul of ME3 selling more than twice as many copies so far than there were viewers of BSG's finale (which is a pretty crazy thought).

There are certainly similarities, but I think the most important one is that both sucked, yeah.

[Werthead]

Jon AS, on 14 March 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Except for the part where the destruction of a relay supposedly wipes out whatever star system it is located in.

The uncontrolled destruction of the relay in Arrival did, yeah, but presumably the same sort of thing doesn't happen at ME3's ending. In fact, it clearly doesn't. The relays transport the ships from relay to relay. If the relays actually exploded, then Normandy would have been destroyed after it reached the destination system (as it would have been right next to the exit relay). That clearly doesn't happen. Also, in the 'Shepard lives!' ending he/she's still breathing, whether on Earth or the Citadel or whatever, so clearly the Charon relay hasn't exploded and vapourised him/her either.

[Werthead]

They could of course retcon it that the Batarian planet was unusually close to the relay. They should should do that anyway as the explosion of the relay seemed to hit the planet instantly, despite it presumably being light-hours away if the relay was on the edge of the system like most of them are.

[Weak With The Dawn]

Werthead, on 14 March 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

They could of course retcon it that the Batarian planet was unusually close to the relay. They should should do that anyway as the explosion of the relay seemed to hit the planet instantly, despite it presumably being light-hours away if the relay was on the edge of the system like most of them are.

They explain it away (terribly) in a conversation between Hackett and Anderson.
"But we don't know what type of energy it [the crucible] will expend."

So I'm assuming any ending releases nonlethal energy to everything except AI's in the red ending. Or in the bad destroy ending you get an actual lethal release.

Edited by Weak With The Dawn, 14 March 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[Fez]

Well if it is all in Shepard's head, then it could just he/she's imagining it wrong on purpose.  And if its supposed to be real, I dunno, different kind of space magic?

Anyway, check out this fun tidbit from a January interview with Casey Hudson:

Quote

We end up exploring some spaces that maybe have never been done before. Because interactive storytelling is still kind of new, there are neat things to try. One of the things we’re trying in Mass Effect 3 is the idea that we can let you feel something that is part of that character’s experience versus strictly getting you to react to things that you see and experience. We’re trying to tell a little bit of the story Shepard would feel and seeing if the player feels that as well. You saw that on the Earth mission, and you see it throughout the game. It’s insight into how Shepard feels. I think that’s going to be one of the things people remember.

So if you already believe, then there's just more fuel for the fire that Bioware is trying something very new right now.

Edited by Fez, 14 March 2012 - 09:26 AM.

[Merentha]

Fez, on 14 March 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

So if you already believe, then there's just more fuel for the fire that Bioware is trying something very new right now.

With respect, you don't try a novel storytelling method (sort of, this was already done better in Bioshock) with arguably the most critically acclaimed and one of the best-selling IPs of the last decade at the very end of the game in a manner that will piss off all the existing fans and alienate and confuse all of the new fans.  That's just incredibly stupid.  They might try to take this community-offered route out in DLC, but I do not think they planned this from the beginning at all.  

They're getting articles in Forbes Magazine telling them that it isn't entitled for fans to ask for new endings.  That's...pretty bad.

Edited by Merentha, 14 March 2012 - 10:22 AM.

[Jon AS]

Werthead, on 14 March 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

The uncontrolled destruction of the relay in Arrival did, yeah, but presumably the same sort of thing doesn't happen at ME3's ending. In fact, it clearly doesn't. The relays transport the ships from relay to relay. If the relays actually exploded, then Normandy would have been destroyed after it reached the destination system (as it would have been right next to the exit relay). That clearly doesn't happen. Also, in the 'Shepard lives!' ending he/she's still breathing, whether on Earth or the Citadel or whatever, so clearly the Charon relay hasn't exploded and vapourised him/her either.

The entire sequence with the Normandy doesn't make sense in any way. Why did it leave the battle well ahead of the Crucible being activated (otherwise it wouldn't have time to get to the relay, after all)? Why are people who were on earth just a few minutes earlier aboard? Where does it crash? Why did Bioware think this would make a good ending?

Merentha, on 14 March 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

They're getting articles in Forbes Magazine telling them that it isn't entitled for fans to ask for new endings.  That's...pretty bad.

Holy crap, seriously?

[Fez]

Merentha, on 14 March 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

With respect, you don't try a novel storytelling method (sort of, this was already done better in Bioshock) with arguably the most critically acclaimed and one of the best-selling IPs of the last decade at the very end of the game in a manner that will piss off all the existing fans and alienate and confuse all of the new fans.  That's just incredibly stupid.  They might try to take this community-offered route out in DLC, but I do not think they planned this from the beginning at all.  

They're getting articles in Forbes Magazine telling them that it isn't entitled for fans to ask for new endings.  That's...pretty bad.

It's a hell of risk (although considering how many copies they knew the various outlets would order, maybe not, and its not like Gamestop can stay pissed at EA; they need those sports games) but there's just far too much evidence to suggest that the Indoctrination theory is right and quite a bit to suggest that Bioware has something up its sleeve to dismiss it all has coincidence.

Either way we should find out soon enough. The worldwide release will be complete tomorrow when it comes out in Asia and if Bioware does have something hidden I think they'd reveal it within a few days after that.

[Merentha]

Fez, on 14 March 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

It's a hell of risk (although considering how many copies they knew the various outlets would order, maybe not, and its not like Gamestop can stay pissed at EA; they need those sports games) but there's just far too much evidence to suggest that the Indoctrination theory is right and quite a bit to suggest that Bioware has something up its sleeve to dismiss it all has coincidence.

Either way we should find out soon enough. The worldwide release will be complete tomorrow when it comes out in Asia and if Bioware does have something hidden I think they'd reveal it within a few days after that.

Between this and DA2, I know plenty of people who are now no longer preorder-buys for Bioware games.  Literally every one of my friends that plays Mass Effect has basically gone "welp, that's it.  The next one waits until it hits the bargain bin or people I trust give me good reviews".  And think of the new entrants to the series.  The ones who are never, ever going to get that you've been indoctrinated. They're going "wait, what?  You want me to pay 10 more dollars for the real ending after you deliberately trolled me?  Go fuck yourself."  Because that's mostly my reaction now.  The ending was so bad it actively recolored my entire impression of the game.  I was having a fucking blast up until the end.  And if they possibly tried to subvert the entire ending to a) sell DLC or b ) fuck with fans, they're not worth my time or money anymore.  Its a risk with no payoff.  If it is indoctrination, I don't turn around and go "oh, that was awesome!" I turn around and go "that was still monumentally stupid.  Your backup plan is as bad as the original."  

Its not the companies who won't support EA/Bioware anymore, its the fans.  They burned a lot of goodwill, at least among my friend group.  And they burned a lot of goodwill among potential new fans too.  

Quote

Also, curiously little commentary here on the similarity between the idea behind ME's ending and New

BSG

. Aside from a few, "This ending sucks worse than

BSG

s!" comments I've seen around the Internet, the comparison doesn't seem to have come up much. Might be a resul of ME3 selling more than twice as many copies so far than there were viewers of

BSG

's finale (which is a pretty crazy thought).

Tricia Helfer's robot body ends up stranded on a planet with an asshole?

[denstorebog]

Quote

Either way we should find out soon enough. The worldwide release will be complete tomorrow when it comes out in Asia and if Bioware does have something hidden I think they'd reveal it within a few days after that.

I'd expect it to be much more. The sales are going to continue at a strong pace for probably a month, meaning that massive amounts of players will still be in the middle of experiencing it for longer than that. Depending on what the 'reveal' is, Bioware probably can't do anything until then. If it's paid DLC, you don't start rolling that out while you're still asking people to shell out $40 for the main game. If the reveal itself is plot-sensitive, you can't start spreading that around the internet while people are still playing for it or waiting to buy it. If it's free DLC, I suppose they can roll it out whenever they want to, but the point of doing it that way, which I assume would be the surprise element, would be completely lost on the many, many players who start playing after the DLC is released.

I think Bioware have painted themselves into a corner here. I have no idea what they're planning, but the fact is that the longer they wait, the less people will care by the time it comes out, and the experience of the ME3-included endings will have been cemented as the true endings to the continuous gaming experience of the main game. On the other hand, going all "SHEPERD WAS ACTUALLY INDOCTRINATED" all over the internet within the next month would fuck it up for those who aren't ready to take part in that discussion yet.

Edited by denstorebog, 14 March 2012 - 10:49 AM.

[Minaku]

Freaking board ate my post so here's the tl;dr version

- I am okay with Bioware taking risks because I trust them.  They've gone out on a limb with all of Mass Effect so it makes no sense to question this decision now when we didn't question decisions before wrt storytelling (human reaper? I was like uh, really?)
- I am on board w/indoctrination theory.  Husband finally finished the game yesterday (I kept my mouth shut for 4 days, guys) and we discussed things that didn't make sense.  He tried to give ending benefit of the doubt but couldn't explain the Normandy nor the ghostly tree nor Anderson getting to the console before Shepard.
- I HAVE THE IOS APP AND MY GARRUS FANGIRLING IS AT AN ALL TIME HIGH

[Fez]

Merentha, on 14 March 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

Its not the companies who won't support EA/Bioware anymore, its the fans.  They burned a lot of goodwill, at least among my friend group.  And they burned a lot of goodwill among potential new fans too.  

If, IF, they release a free DLC, or a patch that unlocks something or whatever, in the next few weeks, that adds several hours to the end of the game I think a lot of that goodwill will return. I mean its only because I believe that that I'm still charitable to them. I absolutely believe the Indoctrination theory, but if that is really just the end of the game... no, I'm not satisfied.

denstorebog, on 14 March 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

I'd expect it to be much more. The sales are going to continue at a strong pace for probably a month, meaning that massive amounts of players will still be in the middle of experiencing it for longer than that. Depending on what the 'reveal' is, Bioware probably can't do anything until then. If it's paid DLC, you don't start rolling that out while you're still asking people to shell out $40 for the main game. If the reveal itself is plot-sensitive, you can't start spreading that around the internet while people are still playing for it or waiting to buy it. If it's free DLC, I suppose they can roll it out whenever they want to, but the point of doing it that way, which I assume would be the surprise element, would be completely lost on the many, many players who start playing after the DLC is released.

I think Bioware have painted themselves into a corner here. I have no idea what they're planning, but the fact is that the longer they wait, the less people will care by the time it comes out, and the experience of the ME3-included endings will have been cemented as the true endings to the continuous gaming experience of the main game. On the other hand, going all "SHEPERD WAS ACTUALLY INDOCTRINATED" all over the internet within the next month would fuck it up for those who aren't ready to take part in that discussion yet.

Well no more than the current ending is being posted all over the internet; and no matter the ending it was going to be everywhere very soon. If this was the plan, than at least this way a sizable segment of customers won't get spoiled. And Bioware doesn't need to say anything beyond something like "There is now new content available during the ending segments of the game". People who haven't gotten there yet would have no idea exactly what means. But yeah, it better be free damnit.

[Weak With The Dawn]

There's one thing I don't understand about the outrage.

Clearly BW has done something right with Mass Effect. No one rages this hard about an ending they didn't like because they don't care.

So, if they were able to make a series that you were this invested in, able to write something that you pre-ordered or bought at full price and the rest of the game was awesome...why would you assume that they just scraped all of that in the last 10 minutes of the game without some kind of plan.

Sure you can point to DA2, but 1) We know DA2 was rushed, 2) It's a totally different team. Yes they were both released by BW, but that's where it ends.

If the rest of the game was terrible I would be way more understanding of the rage and lack of faith, but most people who hate the endings admit that the rest of the game was fantastic. So is it really that hard to at least keep the faith for a little longer.

I'll say right now, if they come out with a "real" ending and we have to pay for it, I'll be outraged too, because in that instance, that's totally unjustifiable, however if they have some pan, or if they even just explain what the ending really was without releasing new content, then I'm content.

I'm going to continue to have faith in a game series that has yet to let me down excluding the final 5% of the last game.

The gaming community has really become a thankless, angry mob in the past few years, it's disheartening. Nothing can ever get released anymore without loud raging complaints.

Edited by Weak With The Dawn, 14 March 2012 - 11:29 AM.

[Fez]

Weak With The Dawn, on 14 March 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

There's one thing I don't understand about the outrage.

Clearly BW has done something right with Mass Effect. No one rages this hard about an ending they didn't like because they don't care.

So, if they were able to make a series that you were this invested in, able to write something that you pre-ordered or bought at full price and the rest of the game was awesome...why would you assume that they just scraped all of that in the last 10 minutes of the game without some kind of plan.

Sure you can point to DA2, but 1) We know DA2 was rushed, 2) It's a totally different team. Yes they were both released by BW, but that's where it ends.

If the rest of the game was terrible I would be way more understanding of the rage and lack of faith, but most people who hate the endings admit that the rest of the game was fantastic. So is it really that hard to at least keep the faith for a little longer.

I'll say right now, if they come out with a "real" ending and we have to pay for it, I'll be outraged too, because in that instance, that's totally unjustifiable, however if they have some pan, or if they even just explain what the ending really was without releasing new content, then I'm content.

I'm going to continue to have faith in a game series that has yet to let me down excluding the final 5% of the last game.

The gaming community has really become a thankless, angry mob in the past few years, it's disheartening. Nothing can ever get released anymore without loud raging complaints.

Not even 5%, more like final 5 minutes. And I took 31 hours my first playthrough.

ETA: 'nother fun bioware tweet. https://twitter.com/...967731070799872

Edited by Fez, 14 March 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[viniS]

http://www.escapistm...ded-To-Polarize

Hmm, Casey Hudson revealing a few things. Doesn't necessarily support Indoctrination Theory, but there's something up.

Hudson is far too smart to back a shitty ending and say "It's polarizing" he's not George Lucas. We'll see, and fucking watch, they'll reveal that shit on April 9th. FUCK.

[Jon AS]

Fez, on 14 March 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

ETA: 'nother fun bioware tweet. https://twitter.com/...967731070799872

Okay, Bioware kind of turning this into performance art is pretty entertaining, lack of closure notwithstanding.

[Noroldis]

Here's another version of Hudson's words:

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/122/1220712p1.html

Is it me, or he comes across as rather dismissive? He didn't address the fans' concerns about the ending at all, instead choosing to promote DL:

Quote

Hudson went on to promise fans single-player DLC, and that fan feedback will shape its content: "We have some really great multiplayer content and some really great single-player content coming over the air, (fan) feedback will become part of how we design that."

Maybe this DLC is the one that will provide a new ending as some have proposed in this thread. I for one really, really hope BioWare has some ending-altering DLC up its sleeve, even if it's one players have to pay for. And unsurprisingly, this article already had over 800 comments when I viewed it.

Edited by Noroldis, 14 March 2012 - 02:31 PM.