402 replies to this topic

[Relic]

Man i love how cinematic this show is. Some beautiful camera work yet again this episode. Was i the only one laughing out loud with roger at the "spread her legs and fly away" line?

[RaceBannon42]

Relic, on 01 May 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

Man i love how cinematic this show is. Some beautiful camera work yet again this episode. Was i the only one laughing out loud with roger at the "spread her legs and fly away" line?

That was hilarious.

[Reposado]

Relic, on 01 May 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

Man i love how cinematic this show is. Some beautiful camera work yet again this episode. Was i the only one laughing out loud with roger at the "spread her legs and fly away" line?

eh, i thought that one was kinda tacky. i loved "you weren't even there" though

[Davos55]

Sally Draper is amazing. Kiernan Shipka is really coming into her own, and playing the character very well. I continue to be impressed by her every episode she is in!

[Harry the Heir]

This is not the deepest contribution to this conversation, but... behold, Christina Hendricks as a teenage goth girl.

[Tears of Lys]

Maybe it's just me, but is that the most gorgeous Goth girl you've ever seen??  I like her much better as a brunette.

[Baitac]

She is a natural beauty. Wow.

[RaceBannon42]

Julia Ormond still looks pretty nice these days as well.

[Blaine]

Rhom, on 30 April 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Two things:

1)  Does Heinz even still make beans?

Well, I just served some to my child after he took off his space helmet, so yes. They are eternal.

Quote

2)  How big an account is it really?  When Lane almost brought in Jaguar, Pete kind of brushed it off as "only a million dollars" or something along those lines.

Let's put it this way, if I'd just landed a Heinz campaign, my bosses would probably be buying me a boat right now, because Heinz is still a huge brand and they buy a lot of media.

Basically, ad agencies look at accounts the way real estate agents look at homebuyers. How much are they going to spend? And in the 60s, Jaguar wasn't spending that much on ads. They still really don't. Honda was a small fry account then, because they weren't the Honda of today.

So in the 60s, Heinz was still a pretty huge brand and the beans were a staple of most 60s kitchens, like Campbell soup. So any consumer product is going to spend a fair amount of money. Notice that all the Heinz pitches were based on TV buys, which is the most expensive advertising you can do. All of the pitches were about using the latest effects, etc. Jaguar would've been unlikely to want to spend that kind of dough. Instead the budget would've been all print, maybe some outdoor boards. With Heinz, it's clearly a big push and therefore a huge budget to work with (and profit from).

[Rockroi]

So I saw the episode Sunday night and I thought it was one of the best episodes of the season, second so far only to the Land-Pete fight episode.

I thought that the deeply flawed Heinz pitch scene etc from the prior episode was a perfect opportunity to showcase how Meagan and Don can actually work together and I loved that they "nailed it"; that Don, rusty as he was, was great and that Meagan appears to be a natural at all this.  I liked that the plan worked and that it "came from behind."

The episode was a lot more about misery, though and how good people can become, well, "dirty" as Sally said in the end.  Meagan's parents and their hatred of one another (and that's all they have left) just eating away at Meagan while her ideological father bores into her like... like an asshole.  This becomes the showcase of the episode; the whole while Meagan should be on Cloud 9 she appears to be on mute.  Peggy picks up on it when she congratulates Meagan (and here I actually think Peggy was being genuine; I do not think she was lying when she said she was happy for Meagan).  And the reason is that Meagan, like her father, may be a true believer in socialism etc.  The impact her job has on that reality is striking.

I also liked how Don's infatuation with the American Cancer Society has all the air taken out by the Dad from Twin Peaks who says, "These people will never work with you" and we all know why, and in a way we all knew why for quite some time.  You can't outrun your past that easily, Don.

Peggy's interaction with her mom was ... fine.  Its just that we have seen all of that before.  Every single bit of it was something we could have all written ourselves.  Not one word of it was surprising or interesting beyond what each of us would have naturally assumed would have occurred under those circumstances.  It as if the writers said, "Let's shoot for a B-" and then "nailed" that goal.  

And not surprisingly, the star of this episode was Roger and his suddenly dynamic world.  He was schmoozing with his ex (looking good, btw), trying to get the bigger deals and ultimately being a good host to Sally.  And then... and then he charms his way right out of his own pants.  Dirty indeed.

And we had a creepy Glen sighting and we all somehow kept our lunch down.  That's solid work.

Its that last shot at the diner table with each of them- Meagan, Sally, Don and Meagan's parents just sitting their each in isolated and stark misery that made the episode.  I thought the show spent so much time carefully crafting that end to show just how unhappy this life can make all of them.

[Rockroi]

So, I will write a more cogent review later, but just this thought:

When Pete got back to his car with the skiing equipment and that woman was waiting by her car, even before she started talking, what were the odds that Pete was not going to sleep with her? One Billion-to-one?  Two Trillion-to-one?  Is Trixseptooblequatrillion a number?  Like, Vegas was not going to take odds on that, right?  Because everyone with, like, 1/8 a brain would know that Pete Campbell is a lecherous whore who will find a reason to sleep with any woman provided that woman has a pulse and, therefore, he was going to sleep with this woman.  At no point was that interesting because we have seen that all before.

More thoughts after I heal.

[Marjie Eilie Myatt]

I laughed out loud when that woman in the lab coat said you can't smoke in here--that glare from Don (and everybody else).  I had to rewind it for my husband who came in from the other room.  It was priceless.

[drawkcabi]

Wow, I could just feel the tension building throughout the episode like a cord being wound taught on a crossbow. Pete's delve into heretofore unchartered waters of creepiness, which is far for Pete, Don first seeming ok with Megan leaving to pursue acting but then coming to realize he's not crazy about it and that his wife is of a younger generation he doesn't quite get. And the elevator shaft... I inwardly groaned when I saw that hoping they wouldn't go down that tired cliche, but maybe they're going to do it in a way that makes it new again, or it's just a red herring. Just an awesome calm-before-the-storm set-up episode and I'm really anticipating the next episodes with fervor.

P.S.
I think Jaime L. is going to start watching Mad Men now.

[Direwolf Lager]

what do u guys think the elevator shaft scene means? and who do u think will divorce first, Don & Megan or Pete & Trudy?

[Harry the Heir]

It's funny, because they've spent the season setting up the fact that Megan isn't fulfilled at her job, and would rather be acting; but when Megan actually quit in this episode, it felt disconcertingly abrupt. I think it shows the success that they've had building up Megan as a character that my first thought was, "Oh my god, what if it doesn't work out?"

It puts a lot of the season thus far in perspective too. Really, what Don thought he was marrying was a sexually available, maternal version of Peggy--"She has your spark," he says to Peggy in last year's finale--and Megan was trying to live that life. So no wonder she spent so much time ambivalent about her position at work, trying to insist on her own independence in a dozen different ways--from "Zou Bisou Bisou" to rejecting the orange sherbet--because she was aware that the basic outline of her life was determined by somebody else.

And while Don does the nice guy thing and says that he doesn't want to keep her from her dream, he's clearly not okay with it. I liked how Don's story-line climaxed in the incredibly awkward scene at the test kitchen, where he was literally treating Megan as interchangeable. It's telling that he didn't click to the fact that the routine only worked because Megan was a charming performer, because he can't really accept that this is what she wants to do. He blames Peggy for driving her away, or himself for putting her in an awkward situation as his subordinate and his wife, because in a way either of these would be preferable to admitting that Megan is somebody that he really doesn't know that well, whose dreams may take to places that he can't really understand. (The empty elevator shaft made this point a little bluntly, but it worked for me because it was really unsettling.)

* Pete's story, meanwhile, was a little unsatisfying. I think the problem is largely with Alexis Bledel, whose performance as Beth made her less a complex woman than a cipher. It was hard to see the source of Pete's confusion--I thought it was just him feeling entitled, until the end of the episode where she draws a heart in the fog--because Bledel isn't at the level of most Mad Men guest stars. (Mr. Belding as Chief of Desserts, on the other hand, did his job admirably.) It looks like we'll see that character again, and I can't say that I'm thrilled.

* I liked Peggy confronting Megan in the bathroom. It reminded me of a similar confrontation she had with Allison last season, which also ended with Peggy saying, "This is not my problem." Obviously, Peggy was angry with Megan for getting her in the middle of something with Don, but I think there's also a little bit of her mother's judgmental nature: ultimately, I don't think she understands why people can't get their shit together.

[Memory Lane]

Rockroi said:

When Pete got back to his car with the skiing equipment and that woman was waiting by her car, even before she started talking, what were the odds that Pete was not going to sleep with her? One Billion-to-one? Two Trillion-to-one? Is Trixseptooblequatrillion a number? Like, Vegas was not going to take odds on that, right? Because everyone with, like, 1/8 a brain would know that Pete Campbell is a lecherous whore who will find a reason to sleep with any woman provided that woman has a pulse and, therefore, he was going to sleep with this woman. At no point was that interesting because we have seen that all before.

What came after was interesting. We've never seen Pete Campbell get romantically obsessive over someone, unless you want to count Peggy in seasons 1 and 2. He was desperate to see her, anyway he could - and being Pete Campbell, it ended up being creepy and stalker-ish. I wonder if the target of his affection was enjoying the hold she had over him, considering how she turned him down over and over until that last scene with the heart on the window.

I am Winter said:

what do u guys think the elevator shaft scene means? and who do u think will divorce first, Don & Megan or Pete & Trudy?

Pete and Trudy. The Insurance Guy's Wife even said that the relationship was dangerous, since they live so close and even could possibly interact with the other's family members. Yet Pete is barreling down the road to that stupid, stupid place, all because he feels stifled and immensely unhappy in his life (I honestly didn't understand everything he was saying to Harry).

Don and Megan feels more like they'll just drift apart, with the relationship collapsing for good next season. That's what was so frustrating for Don with Megan's choice. Just when it seemed like his work and home life were completely in sync  . . . they split up again, and put him and Megan on different paths. I figured the whole "missing elevator" thing was to represent that Megan is drifting away from him and his profession, and there is no way he can follow. The Dream is gradually diminishing.

Harry the Heir said:

(Mr. Belding as Chief of Desserts, on the other hand, did his job admirably.)

I loved the changing look on his face as the "couple banter" bit fell to pieces.

Some other thoughts

1. It was funny how Roger made Pete look so petty and grasping. Perhaps he's starting to embrace his inner Bert Cooper, and enjoy the "Professor Emeritus of Accounts" role, particularly since he doesn't seem to have any real responsibilities or obligations outside of work anymore.

2. Cosgrove appears to be on the wrong side of the generation divide, if Ginsberg is any indication.

3. Lane Pryce has yet to make another appearance since punching Pete Campbell in the face. Perhaps he's running around the bad parts of town, hiding in garbage bins and cowering at every footstep that could be his wife demanding to know why the tuition has not been paid yet.

Edited by Lane Pryce, 07 May 2012 - 02:33 AM.

[naz]

Megan is swiftly becoming my favorite character this season, and Jessica Paré my favorite actor. She's not only holding her own against the show veterans, but she's really doing a great job of conveying the layered emotional roller coaster that Megan is experiencing by being married to one such as Don Draper. Seriously... she deserves a lot of credit.

My favorite line of the episode (as usual, a Roger line): "At least I got to see that." I love Roger's newly found level of comfort and acceptance of who and where he is.

And yeah, things are really starting to unravel for Don, not just with Megan, but with everything. Contrast Roger's acceptance of his fate with Don's willful reluctance to comprehend that he's a relic. The telling line of the episode was where he said (paraphrasing), "I grew up in the 30's. Our big dream was indoor plumbing." He wants to understand people's aspirations of personal fulfillment, but he just can't.

The downward fall as showcased in each episode's opening credits has surely begun.

[Rhom]

Alexis Bledel was an odd choice for the Ins Rep's wife. Perhaps because I still think of her as Rory Gilmore, in some ways the 24 year old girl on the side he was bragging about seems like she should be older than Beth. She certainly seems much younger than her husband.

Her "woe is me" attitude really seemed to be a perfect match for Pete though. The entire bit about the Earth seeming small and unprotected in the black of space sure seems like the kind of thing Pete would dwell on. I'm not sure where they are going with that story, but I'm certain we haven't seen the last of it.

drawkcabi, on 07 May 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

P.S.
I think Jaime L. is going to start watching Mad Men now.

Funny I thought that too.

[Memory Lane]

naz said:

And yeah, things are really starting to unravel for Don, not just with Megan, but with everything. Contrast Roger's acceptance of his fate with Don's willful reluctance to comprehend that he's a relic. The telling line of the episode was where he said (paraphrasing), "I grew up in the 30's. Our big dream was indoor plumbing." He wants to understand people's aspirations of personal fulfillment, but he just can't.

If they're becoming relics now, I wonder what they'll do for the last two seasons. Not that I'm not fond of Roger Sterling just hanging around the office, making witty remarks and doing everything in his power to annoy Pete Campbell.

Speaking of the '30s, I wish we could get a prequel series with the founding of Sterling-Cooper, and the struggle to survive in the Great Depression (which Roger apologized for missing).

[Raidne]

I thought it was interesting for the show to get into how hollow and ultimately unsatisfying advertising is for some of the show's characters, but also sort of risky, since the glamour of the whole thing is what sells the show.

Glad I don't have to live through any more Peggy/Megan scenes. They were just weird for me. Really liked Joan's commentary about Megan. Because, really, duh, you quit pursuing acting because you needed to eat and pay rent. Now you don't have to worry about it. Yes, indeed, how did you ever give it up? Funny that Roger doesn't really think she's genuine either. I like how the show leaves it open as to whether she's fooling herself or not. Does she just not want to work in advertising, or does she really want to be an actress? Either way, it's a choice she only has as a traditional wife being supported by someone else.