403 replies to this topic

[Nathanael]

Yeah, put me in the "'spirits told me' is complete bullshit" camp. I'm still not convinced it is even energybending - it isn't very much like what Aang did to Ozai. I'm still going with advanced chi blocking technique that Amon discovered himself and now is just spinning as something from the spirits to bolster his followers' fervor.

And put me on a 50/50 split as to whether Amon actually has facial burns. His family may have been bended down (though maybe he hates benders for another reason, too), but I think the mask is mostly a disguise.

[Ouroboros]

Minaku, on 24 April 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

That may be true, but Amon talking about the spirits is quite interesting, don't you think?  "The spirits told me."  What exactly did they tell him?  Who were those spirits?  It may be entirely possible that Koh is involved.

Or its a whole load of bullshit.

[Bastard of Boston]

I'm expecting revolutionary things from this series. As far as I'm concerned, the 3 seasons of Airbender was simply the best cartoon series, ever -- no contest. The mix of humor, drama, and rich mythology is second to none.

Have you guys checked out the "tour" of Republic City on the official Korra section of the Nick site? You learn some great backstory -- they give a great spoiler about Zuko and a hilarious callback to cabbages.

I have a conspiracy theory that Bumi, Aang's non-bending son, could possibly be Amon. I have no real proof other than the idea that growing up a non-bender in such a renown family has got to breed a massive inferiority complex in the right person.

Early on, my fav character is Bolin. He definitely channels Sokka, which is not a bad thing. It's a shame he's an earthbender, though. It's my least favorite of the 4 disciplines.

[Sheep the Evicted]

Bastard of Boston, on 24 April 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Have you guys checked out the "tour" of Republic City on the official Korra section of the Nick site? You learn some great backstory -- they give a great spoiler about Zuko and a hilarious callback to cabbages.

Oh can you please give a summary to those of us that aren't living in america ?

Bastard of Boston, on 24 April 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

I have a conspiracy theory that Bumi, Aang's non-bending son, could possibly be Amon. I have no real proof other than the idea that growing up a non-bender in such a renown family has got to breed a massive inferiority complex in the right person.

I dunno. I mean there are bad eggs in some families whatever you do but i would like to think Aang and Katara raised him better. It would just be tragic, like Bumi was Aang's one major failure you know.

[Lord-Kail-Stark]

Bastard of Boston, on 24 April 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

I have a conspiracy theory that Bumi, Aang's non-bending son, could possibly be Amon. I have no real proof other than the idea that growing up a non-bender in such a renown family has got to breed a massive inferiority complex in the right person.

i was thinking the same thing. that would bring it around full circle wouldn;t it?

[The Imp's Advocate]

Bumi's got dark skin, Amon has light skin

Plus, c'mon lets give Aang and Katara at least a little credit as parents

Edited by The Imp's Advocate, 24 April 2012 - 09:19 PM.

[Bastard of Boston]

The Imp, on 24 April 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Bumi's got dark skin, Amon has light skin

Plus, c'mon lets give Aang and Katara at least a little credit as parents

A parent can't always dictate the person their child grows up to be. I don't think having a troubled child is always a reflection of the parents.

[Bastard of Boston]

Sheep the Evicted, on 24 April 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

Oh can you please give a summary to those of us that aren't living in america ?

Spoiler

The tour reveals that Zuko is alive, but retired. He handed the Fire Nation over to his daughter. So, we'll probably end up seeing Zuko at some point.

[Teddard Snark]

I'm really, really digging it so far. Thought of Koh as well--the phrasing "took my face" set off bells. Love the technological advancement--bending could actually accelerate some developments. And, for all the socialist realism aesthetic of the flyers and the fascist theatrics of the rally, I think the show is setting up Korra and her "anti-benders bad, kill them with FIRE" knee-jerk reaction for a major wake-up call.

And they're playing on her neglecting of her spiritual training. Amon says the spirits say he's now in charge of balance, rather than the avatar. If Korra hadn't neglected her training, maybe she could just ask the spirits. Or MAYBE, by neglecting the Spirit World, she's let things get out of hand there, and maybe Koh has decided to start messing with the physical world--or maybe Koh is just whispering to Amon. Or maybe Amon is right, and the benderarchy needs smashing.

Lot of ways they could go with this. I'm intrigued. And it looks AMAZING.

[LadyMary]

Mr. E, on 23 April 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

While that's true, I think that's sort of the point. I'm equating the Equalist with something akin to the French Revolution. The revolutionaries were spouting such idealisms as egalite! Fraternite! And they had very real, very legitimate grievances against the crown, who were corrupt and bloated with self-importance.

So the French revolt, basically, and start a new government, and a new system, and everything is hunky dory as they go into a protracted era of peace and fairness called the Reign of Terror...

...wait.

Point is, you're right, the equalists really don't want equality...but that's pretty much in line with how many revolutions go, unfortunately. The new power takes over, and basically becomes as bad or worse as the old power. "Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss," and all that.



Meh, it doesn't bother me. I like a little romance in my television.

I just watched the first three episodes on Nickelodeon.com.  i loved ATLA and I think this show is shaping up to be just as good and a little darker.

I think there's something of a "class warfare" mentality among the Equalists but to me it's sounding more like fascists singling out one subgroup of society - based on their innate abiiities and cultural beliefs, for hatred. Characterizing the benders as the source of oppression is meant to justify neutralization of their power not equalizing it. It's "equal" in Orwellian sense, I guess but I suspect that if Amon has his way, they people of Republic City will trade one group of "oppressors" for another - the Equalists.   If Amon's not the mastermind, he's the figure head. It's not hard to tell, when there is something very sinister about the design of Amon's mask and the glowing goggles of his minions that doesn't come across as warm and cuddly.

I like the theory that Amon made a Faustian deal with Koh or some other malevolent spirit but I'm willing to bet Amon's face is fine and the mask is a prop.

As for the romance, I think it's cute. (But I liked the potential of Zutara too. Sue me.) These are teenagers and they have crushes and it doesn't diminish the other aspects of these characters. I do think Bryan and Mike shamelessly ship-tease though and they're about as subtle as a crutch about it. That - I could do without.

[kalbear]

Dunno; I don't think it's fascism at all. The world is ruled by 4 nations that are defined by their bending skills. Virtually everyone we've ever seen in a position of power has been a bender of some kind; the only place where that was the earth kingdom, which was still rigidly controlled by bending. In Republic City benders are the police, the sports stars, the religious folks, the engineers and the medics.

What place is there in the world for nonbenders?

Same thing with the Avatar; she is a bully who uses her superior force and position in the world to get what she wants. She's had everything handed to her and everyone takes care of her, and she's untouchable. She can evade the police, attack unarmed citizens, destroy property, act as a vigilante and interrupt sports events because of her history as a bender and her tradition. That's a pretty oppressive value; do you think a common man wants their cabbages destroyed all the time? Do you think a person peacefully speaking their mind wants to be terrorized?

I love Korra, but in this world Amon or Aman has a really, really big point.

[Tormund Midgetsbane]

Quote

Dunno; I don't think it's fascism at all. The world is ruled by 4 nations that are defined by their bending skills. Virtually everyone we've ever seen in a position of power has been a bender of some kind

I was thinking about this and it's not strictly true.  The Earth King was never shown bending.  The Chief of the Northern Water Tribe was not a bender, nor was his daughter.  Kitara and Sokka's dad was some sort of political authority and he was not a bender either.  The Avatar is the principal expression of bending, and yet they don't seem to wield any specific political power.

[LadyMary]

Kalbear, on 24 April 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Dunno; I don't think it's fascism at all. The world is ruled by 4 nations that are defined by their bending skills. Virtually everyone we've ever seen in a position of power has been a bender of some kind; the only place where that was the earth kingdom, which was still rigidly controlled by bending. In Republic City benders are the police, the sports stars, the religious folks, the engineers and the medics.

What place is there in the world for nonbenders?

Same thing with the Avatar; she is a bully who uses her superior force and position in the world to get what she wants. She's had everything handed to her and everyone takes care of her, and she's untouchable. She can evade the police, attack unarmed citizens, destroy property, act as a vigilante and interrupt sports events because of her history as a bender and her tradition. That's a pretty oppressive value; do you think a common man wants their cabbages destroyed all the time? Do you think a person peacefully speaking their mind wants to be terrorized?

I love Korra, but in this world Amon or Aman has a really, really big point.

I'm new to Legend of Korra-canon so I don't know if everything is ruled by only benders, or if non-benders have roles in the political institutions. Until it's been confirmed that only benders are given the power to rule, then I'm not buying into Amon's "all benders are bad" invective. I note the guy in the park on his soapbox wasn't prevented from speaking freely by the authorities which one would expect if he was being oppressed.

That being said, I agree that Amon has a point - to a point. Some benders use their powers for evil and cause harm to innocent people. Those would be the criminal types that exist in every society, but there are also benders who use their powers for the common good or for harmless entertainment. My question is, is this really his point or is he using that to justify neutralizing benders because he wants to get rid of them for his own purposes? I don't tust people who employ the politics of blame and fear, and that's exactly what he's doing. Rampaging mobs don't usually stop to ask questions and that's the problem.  

If there were no laws to deal with criminal benders and there was evidence that Aang and Zuko created a big bender-supremicist dictatorship, I could at least see why Amon would take vigilante action and understand his motivation. However, I assume there are laws to deal with criminal benders - and we know the police show up to deal with incidents, which means that Amon wants revenge for what allegedly happened to his family.

That doesn't justify neutralizing benders who haven't hurt someone or use their powers for good. I haven't heard any distinction in Amon's invective between benders who use their powers for good or bad, and one of the people he intended to neutralize was not a criminal, just a dumb orphaned kid who was down on his luck and got suckered into a foolish scheme to earn some money so he could enter a competition to improve his life.   Amon was judge, jury and executioner there.

I don't see Korra as a "bully".  She doesn't go out of her way to pull her weight just because she can. A bull in a china shop? Absolutely. She has good intentions and has been extremely isolated and sheltered for most of her life and that means maybe she's not hip to the ebb and flow of life in the big city.

I think that's Korra's challenge right now, to learn how to live in a changing world, not just to learn air bending. She needs to learn to see beyond the narrow worldview that she was raised with, that painted a rosier view of the complicated world that she lives in.  Maybe she will see that yes, Amon does have a point (assuming he's not a liar who is rabble-rousing for his own purposes).

[Atreides]

Whether or not he's telling the truth about his own story, Amon has certainly tapped into popular discontent about benders. I would imagine this is because people are more likely to experience negative treatment by bending thugs and such, as opposed to getting healed by random waterbenders. Regular benders blend in for the most part, but abusive benders stand out and get noticed, and drive up hatred of benders in general.

[felice]

Datepalm, on 23 April 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

so taking away someones bending is like trying to turn gays straight or forcible conversion or something, (Becuase "they're born that way"!) while my reading is inevitably that its stripping away aristocratic class privilege in an industrializing society. (Hey, they're born that way too.)

But they're not trying to achieve more equal distribution of bending ability, they just want to destroy it. The point of socialism is to stop taking an unfair share of resources away from everyone else; bending ability doesn't take anything away, and destroying it is more like lobotomising people for being smarter than average. The problem with benders is more the strong oppressing the weak, which isn't so much a class issue.

Mr. E, on 23 April 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

I think it has made it clear that people with bending are abusing their privileges--the TTT gang, and Amon's story--but since the show is sort of cramped for time anyway, they haven't really been able to get across just how bad it is.

Korra doesn't know how bad it is either; I expect we'll learn more about it as she does.

[LadyMary]

Atreides, on 25 April 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Whether or not he's telling the truth about his own story, Amon has certainly tapped into popular discontent about benders. I would imagine this is because people are more likely to experience negative treatment by bending thugs and such, as opposed to getting healed by random waterbenders. Regular benders blend in for the most part, but abusive benders stand out and get noticed, and drive up hatred of benders in general.

Of course, but the regular benders will become the object of fear and loathing just as much as the criminal minority that caused the  problems. Bigotry works that way.

I think there's something more sinister behind Amon's campaign even if there's a legitimate grievance at the heart of it. He's an eliminationist when it comes to benders and he has special powers of his own, so I don't believe he's just an innocent victim trying to equalize things between benders and non-benders.

I think Korra is naive and will have a lot to learn about the hurtful, unbalanced side of bending before she can help make things better. I think her learning curve is going to be interesting.

[Sci-2]

Quote

I think there's something more sinister behind Amon's campaign even if there's a legitimate grievance at the heart of it. He's an eliminationist when it comes to benders and he has special powers of his own, so I don't believe he's just an innocent victim trying to equalize things between benders and non-benders.

There's probably truth to this, but I hope this doesn't turn out to be the case just as I hope there isn't some smooth romance this season.

Aman should have the expected corruption that power and hatred bring, but I'd rather not have him be some mustache twirler with a secret magical conquest plan.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

Tormund Midgetsbane, on 25 April 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

I was thinking about this and it's not strictly true.  The Earth King was never shown bending.  The Chief of the Northern Water Tribe was not a bender, nor was his daughter.  Kitara and Sokka's dad was some sort of political authority and he was not a bender either.  The Avatar is the principal expression of bending, and yet they don't seem to wield any specific political power.

The Earth King was also a complete puppet ruler. But you are otherwise talking about accidents of birth into political power which is basically the only chance many non-benders have. The benders of the Southern Water Tribe were removed from power by the Fire Nation, which is one of the reasons why Katara and Sokka's father was able to hold more political clout in their tribe.

LadyMary, on 25 April 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

Of course, but the regular benders will become the object of fear and loathing just as much as the criminal minority that caused the  problems. Bigotry works that way.

I think there's something more sinister behind Amon's campaign even if there's a legitimate grievance at the heart of it. He's an eliminationist when it comes to benders and he has special powers of his own, so I don't believe he's just an innocent victim trying to equalize things between benders and non-benders.

I think Korra is naive and will have a lot to learn about the hurtful, unbalanced side of bending before she can help make things better. I think her learning curve is going to be interesting.

Do you really think it sends the right message for it to be that the non-benders are just malcontents who should just know their proper role with respect to benders?

[Galactus]

My first crackpot theory was actually that Amon was Zuko. ("I lost my face to a firebender...") although I don't SERIOUSLY believe it... But he would be one of the people who knew about spirit-bending.

[Atreides]

Zuko becoming a disiluisioned revolutionary in his old age? It would be interesting to say the least.