42 replies to this topic

[LordBloodraven]

Well, 5 books showed us Littlefinger's talents in the game of thrones. He has manipulated many characters, from Lysa Arryn to Cersei, from Ned Stark to Tywin Lannister, and has become Lord of Harrenhal and Protector of the Vale, while plunging Westeros into civil war. That's all for his merits, if I daresay.

But now, I wonder how he intends to capitalize all this success. I don't think that Littlefinger had a remote chance to screw the Starks and the Lannisters and get away with it. Tyrion knows his game, and I think Cersei is beginning to suspect it. The Lords Declarant of the Vale don't intend to let him rule the Vale for long years. He succeeded in corrupting them, but has the loyalty of none of them  except Lord Nestor Royce. Varys has a long-term plan which is to have Aegon rule Westeros. Littlefinger doesn't seem to have one: playing the game for playing the game is not one, I'd say.

• He cannot hope to rule Westeros, nor to be the puppetmaster behind Sansa or Aegon. Sooner or later, his role in the downfall of House Stark and Lannister will be discovered and he'll have a hard time saving his ass.

• He doesn't have an army: he's Lord of Harrenhal, but has never been there to rule or anything else. He doesn't have a family, so forging alliances might be hard for him

• He relies on sellswords and hedge knights to protect him but their loyalty goes as far as their life not being at risk.

• In a very martial society, Littlefinger is quite the ugly duckling. I don't think that he can swing a sword, even if that isn't much important.

• He has no charisma, cannot inspire loyalty and doesn't seem to care for that. Plus, I don't think that he can manipulate Sansa forever. Sooner or later, she'll know the truth and that little strangler in the hairnet might be to use.

• Aegon's arrival in Westeros could change the game for him but Aegon is Vary's protégé. Even though they respect each other, Varys could  see sly Littlefinger as a danger to Aegon's rule and peace "for the children".
  
• Stannis knows of Littlefinger's embezzlement and has no love for him.

So, when do you think Littlefinger is going to sail back to Braavos?

[chris999]

I think he wants to sit the Iron Throne, and I think he will really do it too.

Without going into too much detail, I'll explain it simply.

-LF will marry Sansa and Harry the Heir together.

-During the wedding he will reveal that 'his daughter' is really S. Stark, the Heir to Winterfell.

-LF will kill Harry as soon as Sansa has her first male child (the child is the new ruler of the Vale, with Sansa as Lord Protector)

-LF will convince Sansa to marry him with a political marriage, promising to take revenge against the Lannisters for destroying the Starks. (ruler of the Vale and the North unites with ruler of the Riverlands)

-LF then will convince the Golden Company that they are fighting on the losing side, and will pay them to "turn the cloak", giving him the most powerful force in Westeros.

-With the combined forces of the Vale (untouched by the "war of the 5 kings") the remaining forces of the Riverlands and the Golden Company, they have a force that would be the most powerful in Westeros. They then win the Iron Throne.




Of course after this, we all know that Dany is going to finally arrive, and fu%k everything up.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

chris999, on 15 March 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Of course after this, we all know that Dany is going to finally arrive, and fu%k everything up.

What makes you think Dany is not in LF's plans? When Robert wanted to off Dany, LF was the man who said we can't hire the Faceless Men. Also he has a lot fo spies throughout Westeros, im sure he has heard of "The Silver Queen with 3 Dragons" and has taken her into account

[Pellaeon]

I belief he is dead, Tyrion will pay his deads with him and hunt him down or maybe Sansa get behind his role and throw him out of the Moondoor. I can't imagine that his little game succed
The Eyre maybe inpregnable but how many men he realy have who wouldn't sold him out for some gold. He poker to high and he will lose

[chris999]

Ndrew of Typhgarian, on 15 March 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

What makes you think Dany is not in LF's plans? When Robert wanted to off Dany, LF was the man who said we can't hire the Faceless Men. Also he has a lot fo spies throughout Westeros, im sure he has heard of "The Silver Queen with 3 Dragons" and has taken her into account

You may be right. I just dont see him bending the knee to Dany when he wants to rule Westeros himself.

Maybe he thinks that her dothraki force will never cross the sea

Maybe he will try to hire assasin's to kill her himself. Im not so sure that LF didnt want Robert to kill Dany, he probably just thought that they couldnt afford it. Remeber how much the Faceless Men charge to kill a king? Easier just send another assasin, or an army.

[PrinceAdam]

Well we don't know what his his plans are and because of that I can't take a guess of what will happen to him. If he reaches too high he may well be cast down but he may end up doing something good and become popular amongst the readers and Westeros. All I know is that he is extremely cunning and as things stand no side besides the Lords Declarant want him dead.

[ElizaMartell]

-In before Lord Littlefinger's Lash-

Goodness knows what exact power position Littlefinger wants, but I am betting it shall be a very interesting reveal.

[Independent George]

In one of the Alayne chapters, didn't Littlefinger make reference to the Three Queens? That implies he knows about Dany, and is preparing for her.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

chris999, on 15 March 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

You may be right. I just dont see him bending the knee to Dany when he wants to rule Westeros himself.

Maybe he thinks that her dothraki force will never cross the sea

Maybe he will try to hire assasin's to kill her himself. Im not so sure that LF didnt want Robert to kill Dany, he probably just thought that they couldnt afford it. Remeber how much the Faceless Men charge to kill a king? Easier just send another assasin, or an army.

For sure, but i doubt someone like LF would put 3 dragons carelessly on his to do list.
There are 2 ways I see LF's downfall
1. Sansa finds out about Jeyne and kills LF
2. Tyrion remains alive, marriage keeps on going, Tyrion does sompthing cool, hopefully with dragons

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Independent George, on 15 March 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

In one of the Alayne chapters, didn't Littlefinger make reference to the Three Queens? That implies he knows about Dany, and is preparing for her.

That, or he knew about the Dornish plan to crown Myrcella. I lean towards thinking he knew about Dany, but it is possible he wasn't referring to her.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Independent George, on 15 March 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

In one of the Alayne chapters, didn't Littlefinger make reference to the Three Queens? That implies he knows about Dany, and is preparing for her.

well 1 of the queens is without a doubt Sansa
the other 2 could be the Tyrell or one of the 2 Lannisters.
I wont insult you with Val, or Stannis' wife/daughter

Edited by Ndrew of Typhgarian, 15 March 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[the Scorpion Knight]

naah Into the grave

[Buckwheat]

Independent George, on 15 March 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

In one of the Alayne chapters, didn't Littlefinger make reference to the Three Queens? That implies he knows about Dany, and is preparing for her.

I thought he was talking of Cersei, Margaery and Sansa.

[AngrySoviet]

Can someone answer this to me?  How is LF responsible for the fall of House Lannister?

I mean I can see how he manipulated Lysa and Lord Eddard, but when has he ever manipulated Tywin?  It has been a while since i read, but I cannot recall the details.

[LordBloodraven]

chris999, on 15 March 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

I think he wants to sit the Iron Throne, and I think he will really do it too.

Without going into too much detail, I'll explain it simply.

-LF will marry Sansa and Harry the Heir together.

-During the wedding he will reveal that 'his daughter' is really S. Stark, the Heir to Winterfell.

-LF will kill Harry as soon as Sansa has her first male child (the child is the new ruler of the Vale, with Sansa as Lord Protector)

-LF will convince Sansa to marry him with a political marriage, promising to take revenge against the Lannisters for destroying the Starks. (ruler of the Vale and the North unites with ruler of the Riverlands)

-LF then will convince the Golden Company that they are fighting on the losing side, and will pay them to "turn the cloak", giving him the most powerful force in Westeros.

-With the combined forces of the Vale (untouched by the "war of the 5 kings") the remaining forces of the Riverlands and the Golden Company, they have a force that would be the most powerful in Westeros. They then win the Iron Throne.




Of course after this, we all know that Dany is going to finally arrive, and fu%k everything up.

Nahh, I don't think it will be so easy. The Gold Cloak are for Aegon, "some oaths are written in  blood", and Varys knows Littlefinger's dangerosity. So I don't think it's possible.

Why would Sansa want to marry Littlefinger? He can't control him forever and she doesn't love him. She'll know soon enough that Norther lords are fighting for the Starks and she'll have another alternative.

Littlefinger, seating on the Iron throne. Maybe after the Others wipe out Westeros.

[LordBloodraven]

AngrySoviet, on 15 March 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Can someone answer this to me?  How is LF responsible for the fall of House Lannister?

I mean I can see how he manipulated Lysa and Lord Eddard, but when has he ever manipulated Tywin?  It has been a while since i read, but I cannot recall the details.

I was referring to Littlefinger's accusing Tyrion of being the owner of the dagger, and framing him for Joff's murder. Plus, he has been pawning Cersei since AGOT, and planted the Kettleblack at court and induced Joff into killing Ned Stark as a show of power, which none of the older Lannisters wanter. House Lannister has not (yet?) fallen and Littlefinger's not the sole responsible (Varys is vying for their destruction) but weakening them and profiting from that vacuum of power is in his plan, as he states to Sansa when he was rejoicing over Cersei's blunders.

[AngrySoviet]

LordBloodraven, on 15 March 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

I was referring to Littlefinger's accusing Tyrion of being the owner of the dagger, and framing him for Joff's murder. Plus, he has been pawning Cersei since AGOT, and planted the Kettleblack at court and induced Joff into killing Ned Stark as a show of power, which none of the older Lannisters wanter. House Lannister has not (yet?) fallen and Littlefinger's not the sole responsible (Varys is vying for their destruction) but weakening them and profiting from that vacuum of power is in his plan, as he states to Sansa when he was rejoicing over Cersei's blunders.

Ok that does make sense, but when exactly does it say LF induces Joff to murder Ned Stark?  He does betray Eddard by turning the City Watch against him, but I don't remember him ever pushing Joff to murder.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

He will rule all of Westeros, or die trying.


"MACBETH
                               If we should fail?
LADY MACBETH
                                                         We fail!
But screw your courage to the sticking-place,
And we'll not fail. "

ElizaMartell, on 15 March 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

-In before Lord Littlefinger's Lash-

Goodness knows what exact power position Littlefinger wants, but I am betting it shall be a very interesting reveal.

I'm glad to know you're thinking of me.

[The Swaggering Bravo]

I believe Littlefinger means to support Stannis. Sansa will be instructed to back him and he will then be on the winning side if the Tyrells abandon Tommen's claim for Stannis. But I have no doubts that it will be after Littlefinger is certain Highgarden won't be on the opposing side, he wouldn't take that risk.

[The Swaggering Bravo]

Lord Littlefinger, on 15 March 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

He will rule all of Westeros, or die trying.


"MACBETH
   If we should fail?
LADY MACBETH
We fail!
But screw your courage to the sticking-place,
And we'll not fail. "


I'm glad to know you're thinking of me.

I hold to the position that Littlefinger will tell Sansa to support Stannis. Once the Tyrells abandon Tommen, Stannis would actually be winning for once and would have most of the support of a formidable army once more - The North, Vale, and Riverlands. He will indeed have their allegiance if he says he will take revenge against the Freys and will restore things to the way it was (Same lords) pre-war, this time with Robert's rightful heir. The deciding point will be the Tyrells, because they could either support Tommen still, Stannis, or Aegon. Knowing their history, though, it could very well be Aegon.