24 replies to this topic

[dragontamer]

I completely agree with the Ice vs Fire and have stated it in other threads too. In nature they are opposites, the destroy one another. Personally I don't think that there is one people that will manifest/represent each or both (Ice/+Fire=Jon? Fire=Daenerys?). IMO they represent greater and wider ideas of a universal conflict that will end up with no victor and common people will have to wrap up their lives and go on.

[Aderyn]

I think it will end with both "Ice vs. Fire" and "Ice + Fire".

Ice vs. Fire refers to the actual war in Westeros and the whole world, meaning the war against the Others. The only way to defeat the Others and prevent the neverending night is fire aka the dragon element (both living dragons as well as the weaponry strengthened by old Valyrian fire magic), as we've been shown in the story.

But as most of us seem to agree ice may also refer to Jon Snow. I know Jon will have an important role in defeating the Others and to do that he will have to make common cause with Dany and her badass dragon trio.

Thus, the battle of ice and fire will eventually be won with (or by) ice and fire. And to make it seem even more intriguing, Jon himself is of both ice and fire (R + L = J required obviously). That's why I like to think that he sets the final balance between the two opposites and by doing that sets the world on its natural course.

Edited by Aderyn, 23 July 2012 - 02:34 PM.

[winterbird]

I'm thinking that "a song of ice and fire" isn't just the motif it's the outcome.  I think at the end fire will come into balance/harmony with ice in the sense that the summer and winter will be restored to true seasons.  (I don't see a Dany/Jon love match.  no)  I think that we need a balance of power and a balance of seasons.  I think that both the others and the dragons have to die.  I feel like all these things will have to come into play and into check.  But I can't see Ice and Fire needing to work together particularly because we have these undead wight walkers and dragons.  Two uncontrollable forces that are not going to be easy to deal with.

I see it more of humans having to work against both ice and fire to create a world that they can exist in.  We wee both ice and fire trying to take over the realm sometimes in more way than one (there are dragons and the red god on fire side for instance and wights and a long winter on Ice).  I think it's more of a human interest against both these things.

[Stark Born Again]

I too am of the opinion that A Song of Ice and Fire doesn't mean the merging of the 2 to fight the Others but rather Ice vs. Fire.  We have Jon (Ice) who was inherently mistrustful of Melisandra who worships Fire.  Now, it may be that she does save him but that will, imo, be so that she can attempt to bring him over to her side.

The Starks (Jon included) are a close-knit family who care deeply for each other.  Bran is currently with cotf and while I'm not sure if they are working for or aga inst humanity but, they seem to be against the Others.  They would obviously not be on the side of Fire as fire needs a fuel to continue and that fuel is usually wood.  Most of the Starks seem to use logic and thought before taking action (Arya is the possible exception but she's still very young) whereas Dany seems to just act without thinking.  This too seems to represent the fire and ice - fire can burn out of control quickly whereas ice takes a while to turn water into ice and can act as a preservative also - not so with fire.

Unless Dany comes back a changed woman, willing to listen to the advice of others and stopping to think things through without acting then I don't see her being the heroine of anything.  She's been shown to have a very vengeful side to her willing to end the lives of any and all who defy her whereas the Starks (again, Arya is the exception) are much more likely to listen and then forge alliances and peace.  I simply do not see the two merging.

[Sharf]

finishingmove, on 11 July 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

Everyone will unite to stop the Others, with strength of arms, magic, dragons -- whatever. They're called Others for a reason. They're vastly different than anyone else living in this world. So, unless GRRM intends to pull of an I Am Legend this is the logical thing to conclude.

The only thing I'm not sure about is will that somehow disturb the natural balance of the world. Maybe it will cause the eastern magic to vanish too (including the dragons). At least, until the end of the next 'cycle' (similar to the Matrix).

Few things I don't think will happen and I find very annoying to read about day in, day out:

1. Daenerys is not the enemy
2. Jon and Daenerys will not get married
3. Jon Snow will not sit on the Iron Throne

THIS. Everyone gets very carried away theory crafting on these forums (i know, it's fun) but this scenario has the highest probability in my opinion. Jon is the joining of ice and fire, and his role will be to stop the others. This is where it gets interesting: Ice and fire have been steadily emerging as the two major themes, but on which side do the others/wights lie? Are they a part of ice, or a completely separate entity that is the enemy of all?

If they are ice, then I could see Jon somehow positioning himself as the leader of the others. If they are truly evil, then It seems to me that Jon and the dragons will destroy them all.